15 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which means either the Maddon stuff was an early misdirection, or there is still a battle for the soul of the White Sox.  You decide.

Interesting  debate

I’d rather they hire someone else, but I do question the legitimacy of the managerial search leaving no stone unturned if they don’t at least speak to Maddon. He does have the most recent WS win compared to anyone else available. And it wasn’t long ago he was considered the guy.

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I’d rather they hire someone else, but I do question the legitimacy of the managerial search leaving no stone unturned if they don’t at least speak to Maddon. He does have the most recent WS win compared to anyone else available. And it wasn’t long ago he was considered the guy.

Possibly, like us, they're close enough to know and not want the potential circus that can comes with him, no matter how he interviews. 

13 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Possibly, like us, they're close enough to know and not want the potential circus that can comes with him, no matter how he interviews. 

Just as they proved with the TLR hire.  

The baseball world isn't that big, I would guess that they know 95% of what a potential manager is about and can bring to the organization without an interview. If they aren't interviewing Maddon, Guillen etc it is because they already know 100% of what that manager is and aren't interested.

It works the other way around also, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the top bench coach choices would interview for the experience and then drop out of consideration based on Sox disfunction reputation.  Particularly if they think other organizations are interested, including their own in a year or two.

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I’d rather they hire someone else, but I do question the legitimacy of the managerial search leaving no stone unturned if they don’t at least speak to Maddon. He does have the most recent WS win compared to anyone else available. And it wasn’t long ago he was considered the guy.

Maddon is an egomaniac and it was clear towards the end of his Cubs tenure that he wasn’t that good of a manager.  He almost cost them a World Series with his need to insert himself into the games.  I want us to cast a large net, but I’m ok with him sitting on the sidelines here.

If I were Hahn, I’d be looking for two primary traits from a manager candidate.  First, they must be capable of leading a major league clubhouse, which means finding ways to get the most out of the guys on a daily basis and being able to hold players accountable for poor performance or effort.  Second, they must have a willingness to leverage analytics into their decision-making.  Can’t have some old school guy who wants the low OBP fast guy at the top of the lineup or who is willing to sacrifice outs to manufacture one run at a time.  A third very nice to have would be bilingual, but can’t consider it being critical as that need can be addressed through the rest of the coaching staff.

39 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If I were Hahn, I’d be looking for two primary traits from a manager candidate.  First, they must be capable of leading a major league clubhouse, which means finding ways to get the most out of the guys on a daily basis and being able to hold players accountable for poor performance or effort.  Second, they must have a willingness to leverage analytics into their decision-making.  Can’t have some old school guy who wants the low OBP fast guy at the top of the lineup or who is willing to sacrifice outs to manufacture one run at a time.  A third very nice to have would be bilingual, but can’t consider it being critical as that need can be addressed through the rest of the coaching staff.

I agree with you, but unfortunately I don’t think it’s the way this organization is going to go. Espada and Willie Harris might be the only 2 candidates of the rumored list so far that fit that bill?

Maddon and Ozzie?

Christ.

Ozzie Guillen will not be the next manager of the White Sox.  Full stop.  

I think it's going to be Espada.  Maybe it's wishful thinking but it was clear seeing his interview that this was Hahn's guy and actually I think it's the closest return to the GOOD element's of Renteria's run.  And we can give JR all kinds of s%*# but I think that they want that because inspite of what a worthless piece of s%*# he is, I do believe JR wants to win.  If I were Hahn and JR needed convincing about Espada, that's how I would spin it.

35 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I agree with you, but unfortunately I don’t think it’s the way this organization is going to go. Espada and Willie Harris might be the only 2 candidates of the rumored list so far that fit that bill?

My guy Grifol.

31 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ozzie Guillen will not be the next manager of the White Sox.  Full stop.  

Have any insight from your sources?

49 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ozzie Guillen will not be the next manager of the White Sox.  Full stop.  

Of the "veteran" names in play, he's truly the only one that makes sense. 

Nonetheless, the next Sox manager will have to be bilingual IMO.  So it's down to Ozzie or Espada for me.

57 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Maddon and Ozzie?

Christ.

They haven’t reached out to Maddon and Hahn already declared Ozzie won’t happen.  Let’s be honest, Guillen quit on his own time because he wanted an extension and basically forced us to trade him to the Marlins before the season was over.  Add in all the disgusting baggage with his s%*#-bag sons and it’s very clear he won’t be coming back ever.

1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Of the "veteran" names in play, he's truly the only one that makes sense. 

Nonetheless, the next Sox manager will have to be bilingual IMO.  So it's down to Ozzie or Espada for me.

How does Ozzie make any sense?  He’s a selfish asshole who is going to manage the way he thinks makes the most sense and will not partner with the front office on strategic decision-making.  Bringing back this clown would be the ultimate way to explode this dumpster fire of a team.

28 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

My guy Grifol.

What is it you like about Grifol?

12 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I would cite sources but you'd discredit them as ignoring these amazing and valuable qualities. The fact is, the stuff you cited has a marginal impact, at best, over 162 games. I could cite sources, or the fact that high paid managers are making 5 million at most when 1 WAR players are making 8 million which should show you how much value people running teams and analyzing this stuff for a living put on their impact, but it's fair to say you'd ignore that so we'll just agree to disagree.

I am not discrediting anything yet from you, as you haven't given me any documented evidence that a good manager is only worth 2 wins more a year. You said you could cite facts, but you're assuming I would discredit your sources.

I think where we disagree is, you think a manager isn't that important and the players are going to perform regardless of what the manager does and even if he is a good manager, at best a couple of wins more. My disagreement is, I think the players need a good manager to perform better. Players need and want a expert manager to get them great motivation, strategy and managerial expertise to perform and win at a higher success rate. They need structure, discipline, a well planned out process to being fundamentally strong, as well as receiving ongoing encouragement or constructive criticism when needed. That type of quality manager is worth way more than 2 wins a season. 

It is still my opinion that if Terry Francona or any other great manager was allowed to have our Sox team these previous 2 years instead of LaRussa, where they could have established their culture, fundamentals and expert strategy, the Sox would have had won way more games both years and gone further in the playoffs last year and actually get in the playoffs this year. 

Maybe our differences of opinion can't be proved or documented, so as you suggested, we can agree to disagree, since neither of us is going to change each other's mind.

15 hours ago, MEANS said:

sorry, i've just noticed it in a couple threads lately and when you jump into a thread and see weird talk thinking it's about Luis Robert, at first it's like what?

Fair enough and thanks!

5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I am not discrediting anything yet from you, as you haven't given me any documented evidence that a good manager is only worth 2 wins more a year. You said you could cite facts, but you're assuming I would discredit your sources.

I think where we disagree is, you think a manager isn't that important and the players are going to perform regardless of what the manager does and even if he is a good manager, at best a couple of wins more. My disagreement is, I think the players need a good manager to perform better. Players need and want a expert manager to get them great motivation, strategy and managerial expertise to perform and win at a higher success rate. They need structure, discipline, a well planned out process to being fundamentally strong, as well as receiving ongoing encouragement or constructive criticism when needed. That type of quality manager is worth way more than 2 wins a season. 

It is still my opinion that if Terry Francona or any other great manager was allowed to have our Sox team these previous 2 years instead of LaRussa, where they could have established their culture, fundamentals and expert strategy, the Sox would have had won way more games both years and gone further in the playoffs last year and actually get in the playoffs this year. 

Maybe our differences of opinion can't be proved or documented, so as you suggested, we can agree to disagree, since neither of us is going to change each other's mind.

It’s really hard to gauge as players are the ones that perform or not. Also dumb luck over the course of 162 games.

Thought things were supposed to pick up this week….beginning of the week was busy but quiet since.

If Espada is the guy, I wonder who from Houston he brings with him for his staff. 

14 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS had a story in the Sun-Times last week where he wrote some of the Sox coaches were told they were free to reach out to other teams.

Our typical dysfunctional and loser FO.

It bothers me our FO said some of the Sox coaches were told they were free to reach out to other teams. Was the FO implying some of the coaches were in fact allowed to stay? If that is the case, then that's completely insane. All of them should have been terminated and told to start looking. A new manager should have the right to bring his own people in.

If the Sox want to effectively turn around this trainwreck of a team, then they don't need any current coaches that are tied to Renteria and LaRussa. Not one of these current coaches are so amazing that they can't be replaced with someone probably immensely better. The new manager doesn't need to ever hear, "well this is how we used to do it!"

 

29 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Thought things were supposed to pick up this week….beginning of the week was busy but quiet since.

I don't even think they can announce a manager until the WS is over, which is over 2 week away. 

I think strategically the actual amount of wins between a bad manager and a good one is very small. You do have to have good players to win. But, in being prepared, in being accountable.  Letting things slide, that total can grow by a big chunk. The Sox were a better team when LaRussa was gone, even with the fade at the end. I'm sure they would have been better if Cairo was there all year. I think they would have been more than 2 games better if Renteria was there and had his don't run it out you sit down rule on. There are plenty of candidates I hope they don't go with, but as long as it's not Tony, it will be an upgrade. Hendriks even admitted they needed someone to kick them in the ass more often. Tony was the substitute teacher or babysitter too many took advantage of. Whether it was his HOD status making him skip steps or think that was enough to control the clubhouse, or it was age and health, it doesn't matter, he wasn't up for the job. Unless they find the next Bevington, the next guy will be an upgrade.

I do doubt they will hire a guy who will be consensusly thought of as the best hire.