I almost forgot about him. When is he scheduled to be fully healthy, and what’s the plan for him this year?

4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I almost forgot about him. When is he scheduled to be fully healthy, and what’s the plan for him this year?

It's to late to let him become a starter.  That time has passed due to rushing him. He will just be middle relief

The White Sox should take this opportunity to reset things with him. Coming back from TJS he isn’t likely to be fully effective or at full strength right away. Burn a minor league option on him and try him as a starter when he is back and able to go, it probably won’t be a full season either way. Try to see if, starting in May or June, he can get 100+ minor league innings on his arm. Giolito and Lynn are both likely free agents (expensive option on Lynn) after 2023 so having Crochet as a possible option to step into the 2024 rotation would be a godsend.

I don’t believe they will actually do this, of course.

7 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

It's to late to let him become a starter.  That time has passed due to rushing him. He will just be middle relief

I’d love 2-3 dominant innings every 3 games or something like that.  Sounds cool in my head

I’m guessing he will return to the pen once fully healthy.  I imagine Hahn is trying to salvage his “window” and will want/need cheap additions to cover for his high priced garbage in the pen.  Turning Crochet into a start likely never happens in this org. 

With the way pitching is been managed now a days he has fallen into a spot as stare earlier,  couple innings every couple of days.

This wasn't the White Sox plan but he and Kopech may both end up in those roles....I'm still not sold on Kopech being a 160+ inning guy

I don't even know how many innings he would throw if you had him in a MLB bullpen or beginning work of transitioning him as a starter with limited innings over the past like 4 years. At this point, I think the amount for either will be close as he just needs innings. Might as well get it in the MLB bullpen.

He needs 2 things to be a starter - a third pitch and to stretch out his arm.

not sure if both are attainable.

This is a no-brainer to me. Crochet = Kopech coming off his break from baseball. Only difference is I would push his innings above the 70IP (or thereabouts) that Kopech pitched that year. I'd like to see him around 80-100ip, which, based on the timing of return, may be a lot. 

 

Start him off in bullpen as 1-2IP guy. Very slow. Then build to 2-3IP (maybe even opener role) and by August/September I'd have him as a 4-5ip guy as part of a 6 man type rotation/double headers/etc. Aka, basically Davis Martin type. If Crochet pitches how he's capable and the Sox play to their abilities he's going to be a key weapon to eat 2-3IP in big playoff situations. The year beyond that he should be able to slot in Giolito's role. 

 

If all falls apart ... and you have no chance of re-upping Gio, then I'd trade Gio and slot Crochet into his role mid-season. 

 

The Sox are going to have to quickly decide over the next 12 months if they are going at this like the Cubs did, or they're going to change directions and approach as the Rays, Milwaukee, Cleveland have and trade off assets near the end of the contract even though they are in contention. Not to turn this into a Gio thread, but I'm a GIANT buyer off a down year. He's a heady guy who throws innings. I'll take him at 4 years and up to $75mm to get it done. If it comes apparent he's not biting then I am a GIANT seller of Giolito and probably exploring trade options this offseason, though hoping for a bounce back and trading him mid-season when his value is higher. 

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

It's to late to let him become a starter.  That time has passed due to rushing him. He will just be middle relief

Why is it too late?

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as late in the season Crochet publicly started talking about how we wants to return to a starting role.

I imagine the Sox will attempt to talk that down.

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by DirtySox

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Why is it too late?

Crochet has 4 years left.  Coming off tommy john, 2023 - 60 innings limit.  2024 - 100 innings.  2025 - 140 innings.  and finallllyyyyyy in his last year, he will be a full time starter.  It doesn't make any sense.  We ruined him when we made him a bullpen pitcher and called him up in April of his first year and not leaving him in the minors to develop.

12 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as late in the season Crochet publicly started talking about how we wants to return to a starting role.

I imagine the Sox will attempt to talk that down.

If he is willing to pitch in the minors for a couple of years, sure.  But if he wants to be in the majors, there is no real way.

Crochet was so dominant when he first came up

30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If he is willing to pitch in the minors for a couple of years, sure.  But if he wants to be in the majors, there is no real way.

Since we have Diekman it makes no sense to have Crochet right now, even though Diekman is a turd. It would be best for Crochet if he was traded to a rebuilding club. 

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Crochet has 4 years left.  Coming off tommy john, 2023 - 60 innings limit.  2024 - 100 innings.  2025 - 140 innings.  and finallllyyyyyy in his last year, he will be a full time starter.  It doesn't make any sense.  We ruined him when we made him a bullpen pitcher and called him up in April of his first year and not leaving him in the minors to develop.

 

49 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If he is willing to pitch in the minors for a couple of years, sure.  But if he wants to be in the majors, there is no real way.

 I dont feel like digging into all the candidates off TJS ... but "no way" he can become a starter over FOUR years? "no way" unless he spends TWO YEARS in the minors?

 

You don't even have to dig far ... Luis Severino just did 102IP off of TJS. Sure there will be setbacks when you push a guy that hard (aka Severino had a lat strain). But injuries for pitchers are going to happen. Luis Severino will go 150IP next year no problem. 150IP is basically what Giolito and Cueto did this year. 

 

Crochet will be the guy who replaces Giolito in the rotation in 2024 (assuming we don't reach an agreement with Gio)

7 minutes ago, he gone. said:

 

 I dont feel like digging into all the candidates off TJS ... but "no way" he can become a starter over FOUR years? "no way" unless he spends TWO YEARS in the minors?

 

You don't even have to dig far ... Luis Severino just did 102IP off of TJS. Sure there will be setbacks when you push a guy that hard (aka Severino had a lat strain). But injuries for pitchers are going to happen. Luis Severino will go 150IP next year no problem. 150IP is basically what Giolito and Cueto did this year. 

 

Crochet will be the guy who replaces Giolito in the rotation in 2024 (assuming we don't reach an agreement with Gio)

The problem is Crochet has zero innings history going all of the way back to college.  Even a guy like Kopech had thrown 120 innings in the minors.  Garrett has none of that.

EDIT:  Severino's history has him over 190 innings twice.

Garrett has never been over 65 innings, even in college.  You will need something like two years before he could push out to even 150 innings, assuming no real injuries.

9 minutes ago, he gone. said:

 

 I dont feel like digging into all the candidates off TJS ... but "no way" he can become a starter over FOUR years? "no way" unless he spends TWO YEARS in the minors?

 

You don't even have to dig far ... Luis Severino just did 102IP off of TJS. Sure there will be setbacks when you push a guy that hard (aka Severino had a lat strain). But injuries for pitchers are going to happen. Luis Severino will go 150IP next year no problem. 150IP is basically what Giolito and Cueto did this year. 

 

Crochet will be the guy who replaces Giolito in the rotation in 2024 (assuming we don't reach an agreement with Gio)

A lot of it too though is having innings beforehand. Over the last 3 years, he has 63.2 innings to his name (60.1 MLB, 3.1 in college). Your take of "he can take Giolito's spot when he's gone" is just unrealistic for 2024.

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by Bob Sacamano

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The White Sox should take this opportunity to reset things with him. Coming back from TJS he isn’t likely to be fully effective or at full strength right away. Burn a minor league option on him and try him as a starter when he is back and able to go, it probably won’t be a full season either way. Try to see if, starting in May or June, he can get 100+ minor league innings on his arm. Giolito and Lynn are both likely free agents (expensive option on Lynn) after 2023 so having Crochet as a possible option to step into the 2024 rotation would be a godsend.

I don’t believe they will actually do this, of course.

this would be the best option as it

gives us SP depth after this year

hides him in the minors as a trade chip. (rushing him back as a bullpen piece for 2023 risks lowering his value if he struggles)

2 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

I’d love 2-3 dominant innings every 3 games or something like that.  Sounds cool in my head

He should be what Josh Hader was early in his career at this point. A 2-3 inning set up man. 

The question is: Which 2 year rental are they going to trade Montgomery for? 

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The question is: Which 2 year rental are they going to trade Montgomery for? 

I wish I could thumbs down a post.... but I half cynically agree.

30 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

A lot of it too though is having innings beforehand. Over the last 3 years, he has 63.2 innings to his name (60.1 MLB, 3.1 in college). Your take of "he can take Giolito's spot when he's gone" is just unrealistic for 2024.

If you wanted to push this, starting him in May or so in Charlotte and working him for 100-ish innings gives him a shot at being a 130-140 inning pitcher in 2024 in the big leagues. While that doesn't completely fill a rotation spot so you'd need to manage his innings and have appropriate depth, if he was successful in that role those could be some extremely valuable innings and it could set him up to be a full time starter in 2024. 

However he will not get there if he pitches 50 innings for a big league team with 3 lefties next year, which remains the likeliest scenario. 

56 minutes ago, he gone. said:

 

 I dont feel like digging into all the candidates off TJS ... but "no way" he can become a starter over FOUR years? "no way" unless he spends TWO YEARS in the minors?

 

You don't even have to dig far ... Luis Severino just did 102IP off of TJS. Sure there will be setbacks when you push a guy that hard (aka Severino had a lat strain). But injuries for pitchers are going to happen. Luis Severino will go 150IP next year no problem. 150IP is basically what Giolito and Cueto did this year. 

 

Crochet will be the guy who replaces Giolito in the rotation in 2024 (assuming we don't reach an agreement with Gio)

Severino has been stretched out in the pst to 200 innings.  What's the most Crochet has EVER pitched?  60?

1 hour ago, reiks12 said:

Since we have Diekman it makes no sense to have Crochet right now, even though Diekman is a turd. It would be best for Crochet if he was traded to a rebuilding club. 

If any team thinks they can make him a starter now, you trade him if hes highly valued still.