Upcoming Week - Chance to get within 2-3 GB of the Twins

[The Mighty Mite]

13 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

You're talking about winning two in a row like it would mean anything. I'm not trying to yuck your yum but dude the season is over. All that's left to figure out is how many games they will lose, 90, 95, or 100.

I hate to give up at this point, the pitching has been damn good since the beginning of May, I want to think that the hitting will pick and maybe we can win this horrible division. That being said I’m probably too optimistic and do realize that we have a horrible franchise with JR at the helm, Hahn as GM along with a pitiful farm system and that it’s probably going to take a miracle to fix this mess.

[The Kids Can Play]

On 6/26/2023 at 3:36 PM, T R U said:

They could trade Giolito and some bullpen arms to restock some of the farm and still not go into a full rebuild.

To be clear, they absolutely should go into a full rebuild. I don't think they will though, not with how bad this division is.

I totally agree a full rebuild is needed, but only if it does not involve Rick Hahn. 

I also don't think they will because unfortunately JR is still around. 

Yet tbh, if by some major miracle JR fired Hahn and forced Kenny out into retirement, as well as JR would would go to the  outside to get a new President of Baseball Ops from a the Rays, Dodgers, or Guardians, etc., I would be ok with a total rebuild.

It's either Jerry wakes up and quits being so stubborn and does it now, or this will definitely be what happens when the new owner comes in some day.

Edited June 30, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I hate to give up at this point, the pitching has been damn good since the beginning of May, I want to think that the hitting will pick and maybe we can win this horrible division. That being said I’m probably too optimistic and do realize that we have a horrible franchise with JR at the helm, Hahn as GM along with a pitiful farm system and that it’s probably going to take a miracle to fix this mess.

The whole produced by Clevinger and Cease/Kopech starts going 4-5+ innings is going to implode the entire bullpen at some point…especially down Hendriks and Crochet again and looking to trade at least 2-3 of the best arms down there in Kelly Middleton Graveman Lopez and perhaps even Santos.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

You're talking about winning two in a row like it would mean anything. I'm not trying to yuck your yum but dude the season is over. All that's left to figure out is how many games they will lose, 90, 95, or 100.

I am as down as the next guy on this club and I 100% believe the right move is to sell all expiring assets (and Graveman and Kelly).  However, winning the AL Central is definitely not "over".  Win the next 2, they're 4.5 GB with like 80 to play.  Even if they lose the next two, 6.5 GB with 80 some to play.  Still not "over".   

The Twins are awful.  Cleveland is awful.  The Sox could catch those teams. Will they?  Unlikely, and even if they do, does a 80 win division title and a first round exit do anything to actually move this org in the right direction?  Nah, I don't think so.  

So I guess it depends on one's definition of over.  The door remains open, but only because the other teams in this division are close to, if not equally as inept as this Sox club. It also remains at least worth noting that the August and September schedule are so soft that even if the Sox do move Giolito and pen pieces, losing 95+ is pretty unlikely. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by ChiSox59

[caulfield12]

32 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I totally a agree a full rebuild is needed, but only if it does not involved Rick Hahn. 

I also don't think they will because unfortunately JR is still around. 

Yet tbh, if by some major miracle JR fired Hahn and forced Kenny out into retirement, as well as JR would would go to the  outside to get a new President of Baseball Ops from a the Rays, Dodgers, or Guardians, etc., I would be ok with a total rebuild.

It's either Jerry wakes up and quits being so stubborn and does it now, or this will definitely be what happens when the new owner comes in some day.

Baltimore is a great example…for decades and decades they tried to spend their way into contention through free agency.  Chris Davis was the poster boy in that regard.  They learned how to do scouting, analytics, evaluation and development and are beating all those AL powerhouses but the Rays at their own game while running a hugely profitable payroll simultaneously.

 

The Rockies, Mariners until recently, White Sox and Royals are/were the only pretty hopeless franchises.  

Even the lowly Marlins almost always develop talent internally.

And the Tigers have a narrow path forward but still much better positioned than the Sox except for the Baez contract…which is basically two Benintendi’s.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am as down as the next guy on this club and I 100% believe the right move is to sell all expiring assets (and Graveman and Kelly).  However, winning the AL Central is definitely not "over".  Win the next 2, they're 4.5 GB with like 80 to play.  Even if they lose the next two, 6.5 GB with 80 some to play.  Still not "over".   

The Twins are awful.  Cleveland is awful.  The Sox could catch those teams. Will they?  Unlikely, and even if they do, does a 80 win division title and a first round exit do anything to actually move this org in the right direction?  Nah, I don't think so.  

So I guess it depends on one's definition of over.  The door remains open, but only because the other teams in this division are close to, if not equally as inept as this Sox club. 

Even the pleasant surprise of the 2012 team…with almost as many rookies as the 2022-23 Guardians, the fans never really believed in that team down the stretch and they led for a good stretch of the season over the Tigers.

Or 2008 after Quentin went down…it’s almost impossible to imagine a team with no rotation depth, a fading bullpen, poor defense, almost zero fundamentals, injury prone, etc., doing anything at all in the postseason.  
 

The Twins have actually managed to prove they can’t even win a single series, just like the White Sox.  It has been closer and closer to a decade now since the 2014-16 Royals and then Indians/Guardians amazing runs in the World Series/postseason.

Realistically, how could any long-suffering Sox fan believe in Hahn still/now with a century plus of countervailing historical evidence?

The Twins at least excel in pitching and have Duran at the back end.  The Guardians have youth/energy and Francona on their side.  The White Sox it’s basically Luis Robert alone to carry the entire team at this point.

[The Mighty Mite]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

The whole produced by Clevinger and Cease/Kopech starts going 4-5+ innings is going to implode the entire bullpen at some point…especially down Hendriks and Crochet again and looking to trade at least 2-3 of the best arms down there in Kelly Middleton Graveman Lopez and perhaps even Santos.

The pitch count is one of the worst things that has happened to the game, these guys are pampered way too much and they still come down with arm injuries. My theory  is that bad mechanics lead to arm injuries, not too many pitches, still pisses me off that a couple weeks ago Gio was pulled after 6 innings with a no hitter, Nolan Ryan who computer studies said had perfect mechanics was probably shaking his head. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[The Mighty Mite]

Twins lose again, 40-42, what a joke and an embarrassment of a division.

Edited June 28, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[RG23SoxFan]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Twins lose again, 40-42, what a joke of a division.

So the plan to get within 2 or 3 games this week isn't working out because the White Sox keep losing, who would've guessed that lol!

[The Kids Can Play]

29 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

The pitch count is one of the worst things that has happened to the game, these guys are pampered way too much and they still come down with arm injuries. My theory  is that bad mechanics lead to arm injuries, not too many pitches, still pisses me off that a couple weeks ago Gio was pulled after 6 innings with a no hitter, Nolan Ryan who studies have said had perfect mechanics was probably shaking his head. 

 

 

 

 

The starting pitchers have been extremely pampered since around 1987-1989 when the complete game totals for starters started declining significantly. Take a look at the history of complete games.

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pitching/picomg4.shtml

[The Kids Can Play]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Twins lose again, 40-42, what a joke of a division.

Of course the Central division is a joke. The Twins were playing the Braves who have the best W-L % record in baseball at 53-27 .663

Braves in MLB rankings:

BA #2 - .271

OBP #2 - .341

SLG #1 - .488

OPS #1 - .829

HR's #1 - 146

Runs #3 - 438 - 5.54 per game

ERA - #T6 - 3.79

This is why it's so foolish to have the Sox avoid be sellers at the trade deadline and hope the Sox can win the Central. They will get killed in the playoffs when they play real baseball teams. 

This is like in college basketball when a small major conference team goes 27-3 in a weak BB conference. Then they get into the NCAA tourney and get demolished in the first round against the big time college programs. This is what will happen to the Sox, Guardians or the Twins in the 2023 playoffs.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Of course the Central division is a joke. The Twins were playing the Braves who have the best W-L % record in baseball at 53-27 .663

Braves in MLB rankings:

BA #2 - .271

OBP #2 - .341

SLG #1 - .488

OPS #1 - .829

HR's #1 - 146

Runs #3 - 438 - 5.54 per game

ERA - #T6 - 3.79

This is why it's so foolish to have the Sox avoid be sellers at the trade deadline and hope the Sox can win the Central. They will get killed in the playoffs when they play real baseball teams. 

This is like in college basketball when a small major conference team goes 27-3 in a weak BB conference. Then they get into the NCAA tourney and get demolished in the first round against the big time college programs. This is what will happen to the Sox, Guardians or the Twins in the 2023 playoffs.

Except the occasional Princeton or Penn or Harvard plays with so much confidence from winning all season long and their unique style of play (Pete Carill) makes them match up nightmares for Power 6 teams. 

That works a lot better in one on one sudden death games when crowds instantly shift to the Cinderellas. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Vaughny !

[FloydBannister1983]

7 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am as down as the next guy on this club and I 100% believe the right move is to sell all expiring assets (and Graveman and Kelly).  However, winning the AL Central is definitely not "over".  Win the next 2, they're 4.5 GB with like 80 to play.  Even if they lose the next two, 6.5 GB with 80 some to play.  Still not "over".   

The Twins are awful.  Cleveland is awful.  The Sox could catch those teams. Will they?  Unlikely, and even if they do, does a 80 win division title and a first round exit do anything to actually move this org in the right direction?  Nah, I don't think so.  

So I guess it depends on one's definition of over.  The door remains open, but only because the other teams in this division are close to, if not equally as inept as this Sox club. It also remains at least worth noting that the August and September schedule are so soft that even if the Sox do move Giolito and pen pieces, losing 95+ is pretty unlikely. 

Cough- Sox are awful too - cough

[hankchifan]

7 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

The pitch count is one of the worst things that has happened to the game, these guys are pampered way too much and they still come down with arm injuries. My theory  is that bad mechanics lead to arm injuries, not too many pitches, still pisses me off that a couple weeks ago Gio was pulled after 6 innings with a no hitter, Nolan Ryan who computer studies said had perfect mechanics was probably shaking his head. 

 

 

 

 

In the college World Series they had starting pitchers going 150 pitches.  I am sure there was no pitch count.  However, I would be concerned about arm injury at that many pitches. But it can be done.  In MLB back in the day starters went longer and there were many complete games.

[hankchifan]

7 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Twins lose again, 40-42, what a joke and an embarrassment of a division.

We should worry more about the Guardians than the Twins.

[hankchifan]

8 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am as down as the next guy on this club and I 100% believe the right move is to sell all expiring assets (and Graveman and Kelly).  However, winning the AL Central is definitely not "over".  Win the next 2, they're 4.5 GB with like 80 to play.  Even if they lose the next two, 6.5 GB with 80 some to play.  Still not "over".   

The Twins are awful.  Cleveland is awful.  The Sox could catch those teams. Will they?  Unlikely, and even if they do, does a 80 win division title and a first round exit do anything to actually move this org in the right direction?  Nah, I don't think so.  

So I guess it depends on one's definition of over.  The door remains open, but only because the other teams in this division are close to, if not equally as inept as this Sox club. It also remains at least worth noting that the August and September schedule are so soft that even if the Sox do move Giolito and pen pieces, losing 95+ is pretty unlikely. 

The Sox had a pretty tough schedule to begin the season, so it figures that we will have an easier schedule towards the end of the season.  The question is whether it would be too late.

[South Side Hit Men]

7 hours ago, hankchifan said:

We should worry more about the Guardians than the Twins.

Will be cheering for the Cubs and Orioles this weekend, unless the Sox drop over 7 games back. Then I'll just be rooting for the Orioles, rather have the Guardians win the Central than Rocco's Twins.

Hope Tito returns soon.

https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/news/health-update-on-guardians-manager-terry-francona

[The Kids Can Play]

13 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Except the occasional Princeton or Penn or Harvard plays with so much confidence from winning all season long and their unique style of play (Pete Carill) makes them match up nightmares for Power 6 teams. 

That works a lot better in one on one sudden death games when crowds instantly shift to the Cinderellas. 

Yes those happen, but they are very seldom. Plus there will be no cheering fans shifting to the Sox in any series other than loyal Sox fans. However for those rare Cinderella teams, in the end, none of them ever get to the final championship game or win the NCAA tournament. If you just want the Sox to get to the playoffs and are ok with a one and done, then fine. However I myself and I think most other Sox fans want to win another World Series. That is what our genius Hahn promised us; in fact multiple ones.

As I've pointed out several times, Sportsbooks don't give any happy Cinderella chances for the Sox with the odds to win the:

AL Central +1200

AL Title +8000

World Series +15,000

That's why I will continue to say, which was my main point of the post, that not being sellers are the trade deadline and hoping for a chance to miraculously sneak into the playoffs via the pathetic Central; is fool's gold.

[SonofaRoache]

10 hours ago, hankchifan said:

The Sox had a pretty tough schedule to begin the season, so it figures that we will have an easier schedule towards the end of the season.  The question is whether it would be too late.

We are the easy on a schedule. Oakland is licking their chops. 

[The Kids Can Play]

31 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

We are the easy on a schedule. Oakland is licking their chops. 

You're damn right they are. They might be the worst record team at 21-61 and only worse than KC at 22-59. However the A's on any given day can beat anybody. Earlier this month they won 7 in a row. Five of those wins were against the Brewers and Rays.  Plus the Sox have proven going into the home park of a crappy team isn't a sure thing to win a series. I recall the Sox going to KC and losing 3 of 4 games. 

[pcq]

Everything is laid out for a pennant run. By whoever they are playing. 

[caulfield12]

Change title to Guardians... by Sunday they should be up 2-3 games on Minnesota. 

[SonofaRoache]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:21 PM, The Kids Can Play said:

Of course the Central division is a joke. The Twins were playing the Braves who have the best W-L % record in baseball at 53-27 .663

Braves in MLB rankings:

BA #2 - .271

OBP #2 - .341

SLG #1 - .488

OPS #1 - .829

HR's #1 - 146

Runs #3 - 438 - 5.54 per game

ERA - #T6 - 3.79

This is why it's so foolish to have the Sox avoid be sellers at the trade deadline and hope the Sox can win the Central. They will get killed in the playoffs when they play real baseball teams. 

This is like in college basketball when a small major conference team goes 27-3 in a weak BB conference. Then they get into the NCAA tourney and get demolished in the first round against the big time college programs. This is what will happen to the Sox, Guardians or the Twins in the 2023 playoffs.

Have you been watching the NCAAT lately? 

[South Side Hit Men]

Possible monkey wrench thrown into the Sunday game with Kopech's normal slot listed as TBD. Wonder if they are shutting him down until after the ASB, with possibly a start next week in Chicago. Don't want him out too long to through off location and timing.

Perhaps the Sox will go Banks on Friday and Toussaint on Sunday. I'd prefer the Sox IL Kopech and bring up someone who can give a few innings here if they are shutting Michael down until after the ASB.