Updated MLB Farm System Rankings After 2023 MLB Draft

[Lip Man 1]

23 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's really amazing that just a year and a half ago the sox made the playoffs two years in a row for the first time in moxern history. It has been like falling off a cliff. 

To be fair the 2020 season was only 60 games...who knows if they could have made it if they played a full slate. 

And the back to back was the first time ever in franchise history. They were the last of the original 16 franchises to do it. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Lip Man 1

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

To be fair the 2020 season was only 60 games...who knows if they could have made it if they played a full slate. 

And the back to back was the first time ever in franchise history. They were the last of the original 16 franchises to do it. 

Even if it was only 60 games, they were one of the better teams in the league. Now they're awful. 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Got it. Just sounded like you were implying that it's been a really long time that they haven't been ranked and that the current front office hasn't produced a good farm system in a longtime based on the performance of the current group. That's what it sounded like.

Guess I'm too old to realize the "few" has so many definitions.

The reason for the higher rankings were primarily based on prospects acquired after Hahn pawned what he inherited from Kenny plus Eaton, Hahn's one shining moment. Even though Shirley seems to be more competent than his predecessors, it seems most players fall further behind in development each season than their peers.

It's been nine years since the Sox drafted someone who has had even one season as an adequate MLB starter (2.0 + bWAR threshold).

Players with 2 + bWAR (Average + MLB starter) White Sox seasons initially signed by the White Sox (Rostered under Hahn)

Draft

• (2006) Hector Santiago (2013)
• (2007) Nate Jones (2012. 2016)
• (2010) Chris Sale (2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
• (2010) Jake Petricka (2014)
• (2014) Tim Anderson (2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021)
• (2014) Carlos Rodon (2018, 2021)
• (2014) Aaron Bummer (2019)

International Signings

• (1/18/08) Alexei Ramirez (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,  2014)
• (5/6/09) Yolmer Sanchez (2017, 2018)
• (10/29/13) Jose Abreu (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022)
• (5/27/17) Luis Robert Junior (2021, 2022, 2023 YTD)

[kgrittenburg]

3 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

All I'm saying is that the stat-line scouting of collective numbers like you mentioned points out obvious flaws, of which I'm not disputing. But strictly looking at those and basing an opinion on that doesn't take into account the context of said numbers or the individual output of certain players vs journeyman gas-cans and roster fillers. It's important to dive into the individuals that are most likely to help the club, and I believe there are a fair amount of interesting options that are in the lower minors.

considering the Sox recent history of development, how interesting will they be when they reach MLB status

[ptatc]

24 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The reason for the higher rankings were primarily based on prospects acquired after Hahn pawned what he inherited from Kenny plus Eaton, Hahn's one shining moment. Even though Shirley seems to be more competent than his predecessors, it seems most players fall further behind in development each season than their peers.

It's been nine years since the Sox drafted someone who has had even one season as an adequate MLB starter (2.0 + bWAR threshold).

Players with 2 + bWAR (Average + MLB starter) White Sox seasons initially signed by the White Sox (Rostered under Hahn)

Draft

• (2006) Hector Santiago (2013)
• (2007) Nate Jones (2012. 2016)
• (2010) Chris Sale (2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)
• (2010) Jake Petricka (2014)
• (2014) Tim Anderson (2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021)
• (2014) Carlos Rodon (2018, 2021)
• (2014) Aaron Bummer (2019)

International Signings

• (1/18/08) Alexei Ramirez (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,  2014)
• (5/6/09) Yolmer Sanchez (2017, 2018)
• (10/29/13) Jose Abreu (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022)
• (5/27/17) Luis Robert Junior (2021, 2022, 2023 YTD)

We'll I guess its good they can acquire players other than from the draft. 

[South Side Hit Men]

9 minutes ago, ptatc said:

We'll I guess its good they can acquire players other than from the draft. 

• Hahn acquired a decade of players via the draft, and none since 2015 became an adequate starter for the White Sox.
• Marco Paddy signed two great players, but was thwarted by Jerry Reinsdorf to do his job and bring in more.
• Hahn acquired several highly rated prospects by handing out World Series rings to other organizations. They have all regressed in the White Sox system and have drastically underperformed their projections and Hahn's contract extension payments.
• Hahn tanked for three seasons, had top of round draft selections, and produced marginal at best players for his "multi-championship competitive window".

That is the state of the White Sox player acquisition and development organization over the past decade under Rick Hahn.

I and most Sox fans don't give a rats ass how many gold stars Baseball America, MLB.com or anyone else has given the White Sox. Most Sox fans care about what players can actually produce for the White Sox,. Sadly, they have been few and far between for a very long time which has led to one 82+ win season over the past decade, with no future 82 win season in sight.

[ptatc]

31 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

• Hahn acquired a decade of players via the draft, and none since 2015 became an adequate starter for the White Sox.
• Marco Paddy signed two great players, but was thwarted by Jerry Reinsdorf to do his job and bring in more.
• Hahn acquired several highly rated prospects by handing out World Series rings to other organizations. They have all regressed in the White Sox system and have drastically underperformed their projections and Hahn's contract extension payments.
• Hahn tanked for three seasons, had top of round draft selections, and produced marginal at best players for his "multi-championship competitive window".

That is the state of the White Sox player acquisition and development organization over the past decade under Rick Hahn.

I and most Sox fans don't give a rats ass how many gold stars Baseball America, MLB.com or anyone else has given the White Sox. Most Sox fans care about what players can actually produce for the White Sox,. Sadly, they have been few and far between for a very long time which has led to one 82+ win season over the past decade, with no future 82 win season in sight.

Very nice but not really sure that has any bearing on the discussion of how the farm system ranked. 

I don't think anyone would argue that most of  the players started out strong as it lead to 2 playoff appearances but then fell off a and suck now. 

It's very short sighted to only look at a very small window of performance on either side. 

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Very nice but not really sure that has any bearing on the discussion of how the farm system ranked. 

I don't think anyone would argue that most of  the players started out strong as it lead to 2 playoff appearances but then fell off a and suck now. 

It's very short sighted to only look at a very small window of performance on either side. 

I'm totally game with recognizing that Rick Hahn has had 11 seasons and a record well below .500 and he's the only GM who has lasted more than 10 years in all of MLB without winning a World Series and firing him based on all that. Not just firing him from his job I should add, also firing him by catapult. The performance window is super long and very clear. 

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm totally game with recognizing that Rick Hahn has had 11 seasons and a record well below .500 and he's the only GM who has lasted more than 10 years in all of MLB without winning a World Series and firing him based on all that. Not just firing him from his job I should add, also firing him by catapult. The performance window is super long and very clear. 

Good points but also not on topic. 

I don't think anyone would argue that the rebuild has fizzled and the plan hasn't worked. I just think people are ignoring the fact that it did start well. He should go as it overall hasn't worked. It his responsibility. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Good points but also not on topic. 

I don't think anyone would argue that the rebuild has fizzled and the plan hasn't worked. I just think people are ignoring the fact that it did start well. He should go as it overall hasn't worked. It his responsibility. 

If we are being honest, a “tied for 4th in the AL/5th by tiebreakers and a “3rd place in the AL” finish, with the latter helped by a very weak rest of the AL Central…really not that impressive for the amount of losing involved. 

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If we are being honest, a “tied for 4th in the AL/5th by tiebreakers and a “3rd place in the AL” finish, with the latter helped by a very weak rest of the AL Central…really not that impressive for the amount of losing involved. 

I would take it right now. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

I would take it right now. 

That’s very short sighted and you should look at the full window of performance.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That’s very short sighted and you should look at the full window of performance.

I did. Making the playoffs in 3 out 4 years would be a pretty good start. 

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I did. Making the playoffs in 3 out 4 years would be a pretty good start. 

Making a bloated by greed 12 team playoffs (4 of every 10 teams) is a garbage metric, especially when they have advanced three times in six generations, only one of which anyone on Earth can remember (1906, 1917 and 2005).

Americans 6 1/2 years old or older (all women) to possibly remember the 1917 World Series.

1. Edie Ceccarelli (Born February 5, 1908)
2. Elizabeth Francis (Born July 25, 1909)
3. Pearl Berg (Born October 1, 1909)
4. Naomi Whitehead (Born September 26, 1910)
5. Louise Levy (Born November 1, 1910)
6. Clarabell Demers (Born November 3, 1910)
7. Herida Senhouse (Born February 28, 1911)
8. Lillian Moran (Born May 1, 1911)

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Making a bloated by greed 12 team playoffs (4 of every 10 teams) is a garbage metric, especially when they have advanced three times in six generations, only one of which anyone on Earth can remember (1906, 1917 and 2005).

Americans 6 1/2 years old or older (all women) to possibly remember the 1917 World Series.

1. Edie Ceccarelli (Born February 5, 1908)
2. Elizabeth Francis (Born July 25, 1909)
3. Pearl Berg (Born October 1, 1909)
4. Naomi Whitehead (Born September 26, 1910)
5. Louise Levy (Born November 1, 1910)
6. Clarabell Demers (Born November 3, 1910)
7. Herida Senhouse (Born February 28, 1911)
8. Lillian Moran (Born May 1, 1911)

OK. How about this then. They won 93 games just two years ago and now they suck. It has been a precipitous fall in a short period of time. 

I would currently take a 93 win team even if they did not make the bloated playoff system. 

And to take it back to the original hijacked discussion, it's not because they haven't had a poorly ranked farm system for years. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by ptatc

[kgrittenburg]

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Making a bloated by greed 12 team playoffs (4 of every 10 teams) is a garbage metric, especially when they have advanced three times in six generations, only one of which anyone on Earth can remember (1906, 1917 and 2005).

Americans 6 1/2 years old or older (all women) to possibly remember the 1917 World Series.

1. Edie Ceccarelli (Born February 5, 1908)
2. Elizabeth Francis (Born July 25, 1909)
3. Pearl Berg (Born October 1, 1909)
4. Naomi Whitehead (Born September 26, 1910)
5. Louise Levy (Born November 1, 1910)
6. Clarabell Demers (Born November 3, 1910)
7. Herida Senhouse (Born February 28, 1911)
8. Lillian Moran (Born May 1, 1911)

saddest part is that they all remember the Titanic disaster as well

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I did. Making the playoffs in 3 out 4 years would be a pretty good start. 

Part of the disappointment related to the fact fans couldn't even enjoy the 2020 playoff fade in person.

That and the fact that they had such a unique opportunity to make it by primarily beating up on their own division.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Part of the disappointment related to the fact fans couldn't even enjoy the 2020 playoff fade in person.

That and the fact that they had such a unique opportunity to make it by primarily beating up on their own division.

That did suck. It would have been fun to see in person 

[South Side Hit Men]

25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Part of the disappointment related to the fact fans couldn't even enjoy the 2020 playoff fade in person.

That and the fact that they had such a unique opportunity to make it by primarily beating up on their own division.

We had whiffle ball seasons in my backyard as a kid longer than the faux 102 game owner lockout scam.

[Sleepy Harold]

3 hours ago, kgrittenburg said:

considering the Sox recent history of development, how interesting will they be when they reach MLB status

You mean to tell me that every single prospect won't work out and become a perennial all-star? Blasphemous. 

[pcq]

Jason is so good he could make a turtle race interesting. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by pcq

[Stinky Stanky]

29th isn’t a bad neighborhood judging by some of the other teams near us. I know, they have good MLB teams. 

[FriendlyNorthsider]

I put exactly zero stock into it. This time last year the Sox had zero blue chip guys.

Colson is an easy top 50 prospect in baseball and is probably closer to top 25. Schultz and Ramos are top 100 (conservatively) and Gonzalez will be knocking at the door.

Pallete seems like a solid prospect and Christina Mena is holding is own in AA (the ERA isnt too pretty but 102 ks in 78IP as a 20 year old is).

The system is still way below average but has some good top end talent. This trade deadline should help replenish the farm. I could see going for a Yu Darvish type return for Gio in which the sox grab a few lottery tickets they like rather than some upper minors talent thats more projectable. There are lots of ABs and innings to go around for the Sox and there aren't concerns about prospect logjams (maybe SS but Colson and or Gonzalez may move to 3rd). 

I'm optimistic about the direction of the farm in the past two years. Hitting on first rounders goes a long way and this draft draft as a whole has gotten solid reviews. I think the international draft will help the Sox with the struggles of non-Cuban IFA as well

[chetkincaid]

21 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

An updated farm system ranking from July 14 from Bleacher Report. I realize there are many baseball sites that put out rankings and of course it's very subjective. However this at least puts into some perspective the state of the White Sox future talent or lack of.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10082392-updated-mlb-farm-system-rankings-after-2023-mlb-draft

The Sox at #29 

Updated 2023 Farm System Rankings

30. Houston Astros (Previous: 29)
29. Chicago White Sox (Previous: 26)
28. Los Angeles Angels (Previous: 19)
27. Minnesota Twins (Previous: 11)
26. Kansas City Royals (Previous: 27)
25. Toronto Blue Jays (Previous: 28)
24. Atlanta Braves (Previous: 30)
23. Miami Marlins (Previous: 25)
22. Philadelphia Phillies (Previous: 23)
21. Oakland Athletics (Previous: 22)
20. Arizona Diamondbacks (Previous: 16)
19. New York Yankees (Previous: 24)
18. Milwaukee Brewers (Previous: 20)
17. San Francisco Giants (Previous: 17)
16. Boston Red Sox (Previous: 21)
15. Cleveland Guardians (Previous: 3)
14. Detroit Tigers (Previous: 12)
13. Colorado Rockies (Previous: 14)
12. New York Mets (Previous: 13)
11. San Diego Padres (Previous: 18)
10. Seattle Mariners (Previous: 15)
9. Texas Rangers (Previous: 10)
8. Tampa Bay Rays (Previous: 7)
7. St. Louis Cardinals (Previous: 6)
6. Washington Nationals (Previous: 😎
5. Chicago Cubs (Previous: 9)
4. Pittsburgh Pirates (Previous: 5)
3. Cincinnati Reds (Previous: 4)
2. Los Angeles Dodgers (Previous: 2)
1. Baltimore Orioles (Previous: 1)

 

 

This is why trading Robert and Cease is absolutely necessary. The White Sox farm system is so poor that they’ll never be ready to compete while Robert and Cease are still good. Get something for them now and start a full scale rebuild. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, FriendlyNorthsider said:

I put exactly zero stock into it. This time last year the Sox had zero blue chip guys.

Colson is an easy top 50 prospect in baseball and is probably closer to top 25. Schultz and Ramos are top 100 (conservatively) and Gonzalez will be knocking at the door.

Pallete seems like a solid prospect and Christina Mena is holding is own in AA (the ERA isnt too pretty but 102 ks in 78IP as a 20 year old is).

The system is still way below average but has some good top end talent. This trade deadline should help replenish the farm. I could see going for a Yu Darvish type return for Gio in which the sox grab a few lottery tickets they like rather than some upper minors talent thats more projectable. There are lots of ABs and innings to go around for the Sox and there aren't concerns about prospect logjams (maybe SS but Colson and or Gonzalez may move to 3rd). 

I'm optimistic about the direction of the farm in the past two years. Hitting on first rounders goes a long way and this draft draft as a whole has gotten solid reviews. I think the international draft will help the Sox with the struggles of non-Cuban IFA as well

Any time a prospect has an issue related to his back, it's hard to know how things will end up.

The next Corey Seager, the next Crede...or Yoan Moncada.