7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Also DL Hall.  I dunno, doesn’t sound that terrible to me.  I’d certainly prefer to have another good starter but all those guys have had their moments.  

That’s a really rough rotation. No way around it

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Are you guys actually going to stretch Hall out in the spring or will you put him in the bullpen right away?  Seems like it’s the latter from everything I’ve read, but obviously you’d know better than me.

I don’t think anyone really knows.  Hyde was asked that question recently and said “we’ll see what the situation is when spring training starts” or something like that.  

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Orioles rotation right now includes John Means, Dean Kramer, Cole Irvin, & Tyler Wells needing to provide 90 starts or so.  That’s absolutely wild to me for a team that’s aiming to win 100 games again next year.

Kremer has started 50+ games over the last two seasons. If you drop off his horrid start he’s a 3.5 ERA starter last year and in the 3.2-3.3 range. Right now he’s their 3rd starter and be counted on for 30 starts. I’m not counting on Means due to health and Wells has been excellent for half a season two straight years. But I really feel like a starter is needed. Personally I’m trying to make a deal with the Mariners for a young controllable starter and agree Cease to the Yankees is better for you guys.

44 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The O’s might be able to run a top 10 payroll for 1-2 years, but not way they can do that on a sustained basis.

I think your point about necessary spending is somewhat debatable, but for fans like me, having a team that contends year in and year out is more important than having a team that manages to grasp the brass ring once but has a relatively short window of success.  I know not all fans feel like me, but for me I care a lot about the thrill of a playoff race and avoiding those seasons where your team is out of it in July.   So for me, I want a philosophy of sustained winning, not a “push all your chips to the middle and try to win one big pot” style.   And that means keeping a regular pipeline of young talent.  If I could guarantee a World Series title in 2024 by trading our entire top 10 for Cease, I wouldn’t do it.  

And I can tell you as both a Packers fan (team that has contended almost every year for the past three decades) and a Sox fan (team that rarely contends), nothing compares to the 2005 World Series championship season. I wouldn’t trade that for the entire post-SB Rodgers era where they made the playoffs 9 years including 4 NFC championship games. It’s hard to explain unless you’ve experienced it.

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Do you think you will be arrested if you say yes?

Unlike you dirty Oriole fans, White Sox fans have a moral compass and operate with integrity. 

Just now, Rolle Tide said:

Kremer has started 50+ games over the last two seasons. If you drop off his horrid start he’s a 3.5 ERA starter last year and in the 3.2-3.3 range. Right now he’s their 3rd starter and be counted on for 30 starts. I’m not counting on Means due to health and Wells has been excellent for half a season two straight years. But I really feel like a starter is needed. Personally I’m trying to make a deal with the Mariners for a young controllable starter and agree Cease to the Yankees is better for you guys.

I don’t think Kremer is bad, but he’s not a #3 quality starter.  His ERA may look good if you remove all his bad starts and put a great defense behind him but so would many others.  I truly believe you guys are dancing with the devil with that rotation and that a big addition is needed.  I know you guys don’t buy into Fangraphs’ projections, but there is a reason they have you guys ranked 25th in expected fWAR from your rotation.

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think Kremer is bad, but he’s not a #3 quality starter.  His ERA may look good if you remove all his bad starts and put a great defense behind him but so would many others.  I truly believe you guys are dancing with the devil with that rotation and that a big addition is needed.  I know you guys don’t buy into Fangraphs’ projections, but there is a reason they have you guys ranked 25th in expected fWAR from your rotation.

25th?!? Ouch. That’s certainly not a contender’s rotation but whatever they got DL Hall and some other random dudes do they’re good lol

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think Kremer is bad, but he’s not a #3 quality starter.  His ERA may look good if you remove all his bad starts and put a great defense behind him but so would many others.  I truly believe you guys are dancing with the devil with that rotation and that a big addition is needed.  I know you guys don’t buy into Fangraphs’ projections, but there is a reason they have you guys ranked 25th in expected fWAR from your rotation.

Some of that is misleading though. fWAR is more of a measurement of peripherals and the future. Doesn’t necessarily tell you the story of what they are at the moment.

Also, 10th in ERA by starters.

That said, they clearly and definitely need another guy..doesn’t have to be Cease but they need someone.

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And I can tell you as both a Packers fan (team that has contended almost every year for the past three decades) and a Sox fan (team that rarely contends), nothing compares to the 2005 World Series championship season. I wouldn’t trade that for the entire post-SB Rodgers era where they made the playoffs 9 years including 4 NFC championship games. It’s hard to explain unless you’ve experienced it.

We root for a team the hasn’t won a World Series since 1983. Thats had a bad owner for a long time. Plus had our tv market cut in half that basically made our owner cheap on top of everything else. There have been a few bright spots to keep us going and now some hints that the team might be sold soon. 

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think Kremer is bad, but he’s not a #3 quality starter.  His ERA may look good if you remove all his bad starts and put a great defense behind him but so would many others.  I truly believe you guys are dancing with the devil with that rotation and that a big addition is needed.  I know you guys don’t buy into Fangraphs’ projections, but there is a reason they have you guys ranked 25th in expected fWAR from your rotation.

Ahh, Fangraphs.  Such a valuable website.  Almost as good as trade simulator.  ? 

Draftkings has the Orioles with the second best odds to win their division and fourth best odds to win the pennant. We know they can hit but surely they would at least be the division favorite if bettors were as sold on their pitching as our Orioles’ friends here.

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Draftkings has the Orioles with the second best odds to win their division and fourth best odds to win the pennant. We know they can hit but surely they would at least be the division favorite if bettors were as sold on their pitching as our Orioles’ friends here.

?‍♂️

1 minute ago, Rolle Tide said:

We root for a team the hasn’t won a World Series since 1983. Thats had a bad owner for a long time. Plus had our tv market cut in half that basically made our owner cheap on top of everything else. There have been a few bright spots to keep us going and now some hints that the team might be sold soon. 

Yea, I’m just saying there’s nothing comparable to winning the ship. I’ve been a fan of a perennial contender for a long time but if they didn’t win two rings during that time the last three decades of being a “contender” every year would have been nothing but frustrating. 

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Draftkings has the Orioles with the second best odds to win their division and fourth best odds to win the pennant. We know they can hit but surely they would at least be the division favorite if bettors were as sold on their pitching as our Orioles’ friends here.

To be fair, the Yankees could have our current roster and be picked first 

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Not to mention obligatory spring training injuries (no WBC to rely upon) and the very real risk of Cease himself getting hurt.

After acquiring enough former  Royals to populate Omaha and Memphis...Getz would 100% be off to laughing stock status if he somehow manages to screw up this one.

And not even Poppysox will dare to extol his various virtues.

A watched pot never boils.  Take that.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

To be fair, the Yankees could have our current roster and be picked first 

This is sad but true.

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

To be fair, the Yankees could have our current roster and be picked first 

Funny

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

That’s a really rough rotation. No way around it

I’m curious why you say that.  Last year, as starters, that group made 68 starts, threw 362 innings (5.32 per start) and had a 4.10 ERA.   Meanwhile, the league’s starters as a whole averaged 5.14 innings per start and a 4.45 ERA.  So, ignoring our top two starters, these other guys were better than the league average.  Sounds pretty decent to me.  

Now,  @Chicago White Sox said they’d need to cover 90 starts, and as I mentioned, last year that group only started 68 games.  But, that’s partly because John Means was returning from TJ surgery and only made 4 starts at year end (to a 2.66 ERA).   Irvin is capable of starting more, and Hall is capable of chipping in, having the highest ceiling in the group.  

So no, I don’t consider that to be “rough” for the 3-5 slots.  But an addition like Cease obviously would be of benefit (even though Means, Wells and Kremer all had a significantly better ERA than Cease last year).   

 

1 hour ago, Snowy Demon said:

Btw, what is the deal with the White Sox signing all these ex-Royals?

Chris Getz is Lorde!

In the defense of the Royals, you don’t need to be 21 to remember their last World Series win, or mid 40s for the  Orioles.

3 hours ago, Snopek said:

Now this thread is getting somewhere

Except if you hate crab cakes! 

And before anyone comes at me, I lived in DC for 4 years.  Still, hard pass.

11 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

Ahh, Fangraphs.  Such a valuable website.  Almost as good as trade simulator.  ? 

What’s wrong with Fangraphs?  Because they don’t just use ERA to value the contributions of pitchers?

Any insiders have anything today?

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m curious why you say that.  Last year, as starters, that group made 68 starts, threw 362 innings (5.32 per start) and had a 4.10 ERA.   Meanwhile, the league’s starters as a whole averaged 5.14 innings per start and a 4.45 ERA.  So, ignoring our top two starters, these other guys were better than the league average.  Sounds pretty decent to me.  

Now,  @Chicago White Sox said they’d need to cover 90 starts, and as I mentioned, last year that group only started 68 games.  But, that’s partly because John Means was returning from TJ surgery and only made 4 starts at year end (to a 2.66 ERA).   Irvin is capable of starting more, and Hall is capable of chipping in, having the highest ceiling in the group.  

So no, I don’t consider that to be “rough” for the 3-5 slots.  But an addition like Cease obviously would be of benefit (even though Means, Wells and Kremer all had a significantly better ERA than Cease last year).   

 

Comparing ERAs for pitchers who either pitch half their games at Baltimore vs Chicago is just foolish.  Also, mentioning Means ERA in a few starts is just ridiculous.

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Any insiders have anything today?

James had a tweet with a hypothetical deal to Yankees for Jones and pitching

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s wrong with Fangraphs?  Because they don’t just use ERA to value the contributions of pitchers?

Their projection system is awful for any player with less than 3 years of experience.