2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If Cease is as bad in '24 as he was in '23, then the White Sox will be sitting there with a mid-rotation pitcher, likely to still eat innings, available at the trade deadline, with a low price and 1.5 years of control. That should theoretically be more valuable than either Lynn or Giolito were at the deadline last year. So - not a big drop in trade value if no one is coming close to Getz's price right now. 

The only downside is if he does get hurt, which - he's leading MLB in starts over the last 3 years so he's a decent bet to stay healthy for 3 months, and if he's only getting a limited offer return right now, then it's not a huge loss if he does get hurt. 

This is where I’m at. Also, after getting screwed on the draft lottery I’m of the opinion that it’s not the end of the world if they try to compete this season. And by compete I mean try to win perhaps one of the worst divisions in mlb history. Might only need 84 wins to take the Central in 2024. It’s unlikely but crazier things have happened. Lots of ifs but if Cease and Kopech return to 2022 form and if Fedde is Mikolas 2.0, that’s a solid top of the rotation. Still not sure where the offense is going to come from but perhaps with a decent pitching staff and good defense they can hang around .500 into July.

4 minutes ago, Whisox05 said:

 

The Stroman angle doesn't scare anyone. 

Go ahead and do it Cashman. 

Lol at Heyman carrying water for Cashman and even he admits they are far off on Snell.

33 minutes ago, fathom said:

 

Is this a Heyman article?  If so, I can’t stress enough that he is a Boras shill.  And the Yankees being a threat for Snell (or Montgomery) is good for driving up the price for his guys.

4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

The Stroman angle doesn't scare anyone. 

Go ahead and do it Cashman. 

Lol at Heyman carrying water for Cashman and even he admits they are far off on Snell.

Boras using his loyal servant Heyman to get teams to up their offers for Snell.

20 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It’s the White Sox post-rebuild plan: only count on guys here. And also added Kimbrel lol

Exactly. espcially ifyou have an owner who isn't willing to spend to get finishing pieces you need to win the World Series.

The O's have a lot more prospects depth than the Sox ever did and theoretically that means their window will be longer.

If your goal is to win the World Series that strategy may fail, if you rather just be a contender for multiple years and hope it's good enough to win a WS have at it. Their starting OF from 2023 all need to be replaced soon. They all had 2.5 or more WAR in 2023 . Can that be duplicated when plugging in prospects who often need a year or two while adjusting to MLB pitching ?

The O's had the same result as the Sox in their 1st year of their playoffs.

In our second year battling a bunch of injuries the only thing that sustained the Sox was the pitching of Cease, Lynn, Giolito. Rodon and Hendriks (with Rodon  costing only $3M). It fell apart because Rodon was gassed. They only played .500 ball in the 2nd half and they continued to play .500 throughout all of 2022 without him.

Counting on a young SP staff to stay healthy and also perform beyond expectations while also adding prospects to the starting lineup is not a serious WS contender and can be a recipe for a quick decline especially in such a competitive division.

Whether or not they trade with the Sox they face the same dilemma.

 

Meanwhile, the best Yankees insider had this to say 

 

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m always an advocate for acquiring pitching so I loved the Eaton trade at the time. Quantity and quality. Still can’t believe they got that much for Adam Eaton.

Sale had 3 years of control was fairly inexpensive and had 5 straight years of finishing high in Cy Young voting. To me it's still surprising they didnt get more than they did. I mean you can make an argument the values were about the same but when you're getting one of the best pitcher in baseball with a lowish salary and 3 years of control I would expect to get more value since despite high rankings Moncada and Kopech hadn't proven anything. No matter how you determine the value of prospects they cannot be expected to perform at a Sale like rate. You hope the value eventually spreads out enough over 4 players the Sox got to fill more holes at a level of competency that requires you to fill less holes in the future but that's a huge risk.

Boston's risk is that since they only got 1 player that his arm would hold up because if it does that one player could be worth more in a couple of seasons that the combined worth of prospects who often fail despite rankings and minor league accomplishments.

Eaton had 3 years of control and they got the Nats top 3 pitching prospects.

Q had 3.5 years of control left.

Hard to rank them but I'd say Eaton, Quintana, Sale

As far as which one helped the window the most Id have to say the Eaton trade  since Dunning was traded for Lynn who eventually reupped with the Sox . All 3 of Giolito, Lynn and Lopez had strong seasons in 2021.

Moncada's best year was 2019 before the Sox started making the playoffs. His 2nd best year was 2021.

Kopech also had a nice 2021 but mostly as a reliever since 2021 was the year he came back from TJS.

Eloy's best season to date was the Covid year of 2020 when he played 55 games which equaled the amount of games he played in 2021 because of injury. Cease had the breakout year in 2021

With all that the Sox probably dont even make the plaoffs in 2021 had it not been for Rodon's 1 year of $3M excellence.

I don't think Cease is worth what we all think he is worth after last year's performance. We have to hope he pitches like an all-star in the first 2 months of the season

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Meanwhile, the best Yankees insider had this to say 

 

Yankees fans I'm sure will be pleased with this news. 

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Meanwhile, the best Yankees insider had this to say 

 

Good luck with that NYY.

if they are not going to trade Cease, then start thinking about putting a team together that can win this pitiful division.   Sign another starter and spend money on a right fielder and go from there.   i have no faith in Getz getting the job done!!!

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

I am genuinely curious who is going to give Snell substantially more than this type of money at this point in the offseason.

Is he willing to go a 1 year route if the Yankees sign someone else?

3 minutes ago, Johno said:

if they are not going to trade Cease, then start thinking about putting a team together that can win this pitiful division.   Sign another starter and spend money on a right fielder and go from there.   i have no faith in Getz getting the job done!!!

They’re probably out of money thanks to the 15-20 million they’ve wasted on junk already.

5 minutes ago, Johno said:

if they are not going to trade Cease, then start thinking about putting a team together that can win this pitiful division.   Sign another starter and spend money on a right fielder and go from there.   i have no faith in Getz getting the job done!!!

That's clearly not the plan or even possible and would make 0 sense. They won't throw good money after bad on a lost cause.

7 minutes ago, Johno said:

if they are not going to trade Cease, then start thinking about putting a team together that can win this pitiful division.   Sign another starter and spend money on a right fielder and go from there.   i have no faith in Getz getting the job done!!!

This.....and if there's no hope in July sell it all off. But middling through, which they do best, is lose lose.

The thing that frustrates me the most is they’ve done nothing so far this offseason to bring in potential long term contributors.  Everything is so short-sighted.

1 minute ago, fathom said:

The thing that frustrates me the most is they’ve done nothing so far this offseason to bring in potential long term contributors.  Everything is so short-sighted.

What else did you expect them to do? Signing a big money free agent was a bad idea, hell that was a bad idea in '23 when Hahn did it. They tried to trade their one tradable asset but weren't willing to cut the cost on them, which is a reasonable move to me when you can at least wait to the trade deadline. What else could they have done - outbid the international guy who went to the Cubs who everyone said was a fly ball pitcher?

Just now, fathom said:

The thing that frustrates me the most is they’ve done nothing so far this offseason to bring in potential long term contributors.  Everything is so short-sighted.

What exactly could they have done to bring in long term contributors ? The 2 best bets to accomplish that are Cease and Robert.

They should have been all over the Kelenic deal

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Exactly. espcially ifyou have an owner who isn't willing to spend to get finishing pieces you need to win the World Series.

The O's have a lot more prospects depth than the Sox ever did and theoretically that means their window will be longer.

If your goal is to win the World Series that strategy may fail, if you rather just be a contender for multiple years and hope it's good enough to win a WS have at it. Their starting OF from 2023 all need to be replaced soon. They all had 2.5 or more WAR in 2023 . Can that be duplicated when plugging in prospects who often need a year or two while adjusting to MLB pitching ?

The O's had the same result as the Sox in their 1st year of their playoffs.

In our second year battling a bunch of injuries the only thing that sustained the Sox was the pitching of Cease, Lynn, Giolito. Rodon and Hendriks (with Rodon  costing only $3M). It fell apart because Rodon was gassed. They only played .500 ball in the 2nd half and they continued to play .500 throughout all of 2022 without him.

Counting on a young SP staff to stay healthy and also perform beyond expectations while also adding prospects to the starting lineup is not a serious WS contender and can be a recipe for a quick decline especially in such a competitive division.

Whether or not they trade with the Sox they face the same dilemma.

Then the Blue Jays are going to have one last gasp before their window with Guerrero closes as well...lots to consider.

Replacing an entire outfield is pretty much the exact same challenge the White Sox have/face when they trade Robert.

 

It's easy to project the infield (Henderson, Holliday, Westburg, Rutschman/Basallo, 1B let's say Mayo or Kjerstad...the best of those two in terms of outfield defense shifting likely to RF because of arm respective strength/s, maybe even Basallo like Melendez's shift for the Royals and Kjerstad in LF with a rotating DH.

You could stick Kjerstad in LF, but that's setting you up for some lousy defense and then CF is obviously the hardest position to fill and they're unlikely to be in a position to gamble on Mullins the second half of his career at the going FA/extension rates.  (Also will end up dumping O'Hearn and Mountcastle for younger players.)

 

Then you have questions with 3/5ths of your starting rotation, health and the bullpen enigma that will certainly pop up for Baltimore just like it did the Phillies in the playoffs.  Very little serious starting pitching depth, which is the kiss of death for most mid market teams when 1-2 key guys go down and there are no quality replacements.

They might even be worried about Cease having a second TJ with his velocity and slider reliance, and then the 1.5 MPH decline in FB velocity or whatever it is.  Maybe if Dylan's velo pops back in ST with all the trade rumors swirling around him and as a competitor being desperate for a trade, but that also puts him at additional risk of getting injured coming out of the dead arm period and trying to show off for the scouts in late February and early March.

24 minutes ago, Baron said:

Yankees fans I'm sure will be pleased with this news. 

I just did some googling.  Stroman called Bob Brenly of the Diamondbacks racist for a comment about his durag.  Then he said that Mets fans yelled racist comments at him and threatened his life, so he also called the Mets racist for not defending him against the fans.  He also called Michael Kay, the Yankees announcer, a racist for not having more black or Hispanic co-hosts on his ESPN radio show.

Edited January 12, 20242 yr by WhiteSox2023

10 minutes ago, fathom said:

The thing that frustrates me the most is they’ve done nothing so far this offseason to bring in potential long term contributors.  Everything is so short-sighted.

The more you try to figure out how to complete these trades for Cease, and ONLY names I can think of that might have any value to other teams right now are a 100% healthy Santos and Kopech, just because there's always a pitching coach out there who believes he can be "fixed" with all of his so-called untapped potential.  And that his psychological side of pitching will take care of the physical/mechanics/control issues.

Not unlike someone like Manoah with the Blue Jays, although I wouldn't really want either if I was a playoff contender unless I was the Dodgers or Braves and had very little to lose trying them out because both teams should cruise to division wins without much effort.

29 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I don't think Cease is worth what we all think he is worth after last year's performance. We have to hope he pitches like an all-star in the first 2 months of the season

But man…cheaper than 150-180 for Blake Frickin Snell.  Whoof 

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I just did some googling.  Stroman called Bob Brenly of the Diamondbacks racist for a comment about his durag.  Then he said that Mets fans yelled racist comments at him and threatened his life, so he also called the Mets racist for not defending him against the fans.  He also called Michael Kay, the Yankees announcer, a racist for not having more black or Hispanic co-hosts on his ESPN radio show.

Yeah, Stroman in NY is a no-go.....even worse than Snell in NY.  And obviously Montgomery wants NOTHING to do with the Yankees, and 85-90% ends up back in Texas if the money is remotely competitive.