I don’t think there’s a single poster here who wanted him in the bullpen after 2020, or even wanted him up in 2020 in the bullpen (starting wasn’t really an option that short season obviously).

I think many would have wanted him in the minors in a starting role in 2021.

Edited July 4, 20241 yr by Bob Sacamano

28 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I don’t think there’s a single poster here who wanted him in the bullpen after 2020, or even wanted him up in 2020 in the bullpen (starting wasn’t really an option that short season obviously).

I think many would have wanted him in the minors in a starting role in 2021.

Yeah, this idea that only Harold and Aly wanted to see Crochet used as a SP is hilarious.  The vast majority of this board wanted to try him as a SP.  I know several of us (myself included) wanted begin that conversion in the minors to allow for a more gradual buildup and to gain an extra year of control, but Hahn sticking with Crochet as a reliever was genuinely panned by this board.

Edited July 4, 20241 yr by Chicago White Sox

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, this idea that only Harold and Aly wanted to see Crochet used as a SP is hilarious.  The vast majority of this board wanted to try him as a SP.  I know several of us (myself included) wanted begin that conversion in the minors to allow for a more gradual buildup and to gain an extra year of control, but Hahn sticking with Crochet as a reliever was genuinely panned by this board.

I don't think anyone can actually say with any amount of certainty that even if Crochet had been developed as a starter that he wouldve been doing what he's doing now earlier.

Maybe it's just that in college and his early years with the Sox his body or arm was not equipped to handle either role without injury. He probably ends up having TJS either way.

He's much bigger and stronger now than he was back then . We have to keep in mind that despite all the gnashing of teeth about how he was developed it led directly to what he's doing now .

It's just wish casting to think  Crochet would've been at where he is now sooner.

13 hours ago, Whisox05 said:

Again no acquiring team is going to bullpen him. Sox are going to ride him starting unless the don't trade him 

I disagree.  I think any team trading for him puts him in the pen to save him for the postseason. The Sox will keep him there but they don't care, its all about showing his value. Even though i think it's detrimental to him in the long run.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

I disagree.  I think any team trading for him puts him in the pen to save him for the postseason. The Sox will keep him there but they don't care, its all about showing his value. Even though i think it's detrimental to him in the long run.

Isn’t the best thing for his health to keep him on a starter’s routine but limit the innings? Like a two to three inning opener?

6 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Isn’t the best thing for his health to keep him on a starter’s routine but limit the innings? Like a two to three inning opener?

That's why I asked him to clarify what he meant by bullpen. What you just said is what I said earlier and said at the beginning of the season after listening to Crochet talk about how he wanted to be a starter and totally embraced a starting pitcher's routine.

This idea gainng traction that the Sox don't care about his health has no basis in fact. It's only based on how much he is pitching and lack of actual knowledge about how the Sox AND CROCHET wanted to approach his usage.

I understand that it's a very unique situation and that how it's being done is not the normal err on the side of caution way but I have a hard time believing anyone among Bannister , Getz and Crochet himself think he's being treated as a piece of high quality meat.

Edited July 4, 20241 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

37 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Isn’t the best thing for his health to keep him on a starter’s routine but limit the innings? Like a two to three 

 I guess I still look as an opener as a pen guy. So 1 to 2 innings an outing on a regular basis would work.

47 minutes ago, ptatc said:

 I guess I still look as an opener as a pen guy. So 1 to 2 innings an outing on a regular basis would work.

Which is precisely what I suggested in this thread back in April. Posters were talking about limiting him to 80-100 innings this season and I asked what are you going to do when he reaches 100 innings in early July? Of course, no one (Sox or potential trade partner) is going to shut him down the rest of the season when 3 months still remain.

 

Edited July 4, 20241 yr by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Which is precisely what I suggested in this thread back in April. Posters were talking about limiting him to 80-100 innings this season and I asked what are you going to do when he reaches 100 innings in early July? Of course, no one (Sox or potential trade partner) is going to shut him down the rest of the season when 3 months still remain.

 

Those were the options. That was my point back then. I don't care how they did it but that innings range should be the limit. Since the Sox have made him just a standard starter, it's going to be really interesting how he is handled from here. They have already gone past what would be common philosophy on how to handle this situation.  But this is a unique case with turning a college reliever with his injury history.

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's why I asked him to clarify what he meant by bullpen. What you just said is what I said earlier and said at the beginning of the season after listening to Crochet talk about how he wanted to be a starter and totally embraced a starting pitcher's routine.

This idea gainng traction that the Sox don't care about his health has no basis in fact. It's only based on how much he is pitching and lack of actual knowledge about how the Sox AND CROCHET wanted to approach his usage.

I understand that it's a very unique situation and that how it's being done is not the normal err on the side of caution way but I have a hard time believing anyone among Bannister , Getz and Crochet himself think he's being treated as a piece of high quality meat.

I don't think it's that the Sox don't care about his health although they are pushing it. I think they don't care about saving his innings for the second half of the season as they know he won't be here. 

21 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

We were telling everyone. 

Lol. Not too long ago you were questioning if Crochet was even any good. 

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol. Not too long ago you were questioning if Crochet was even any good. 

I thought they had fucked him up forever, I'm talking about back in 2020-21.

Hahn completely mismanaged Crochet. Also, I'm not sure he'd be this good without the cutter he added this year. 

Edited July 4, 20241 yr by baseball_gal_aly

I for one thought he was cooked before this season.

26 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think it's that the Sox don't care about his health although they are pushing it. I think they don't care about saving his innings for the second half of the season as they know he won't be here. 

But that wasn't necessarily the plan going into the season. He could've just as easily got hurt or not been as good as he has been before he had any worth like many including me were expecting.

It's been good from the Sox perspective that they have a valuable player they can move but also from Crochet's perspective that he's betting on himself to make millions in a few years. How that works out for him IDK.

Some think he's worth a 4 or 5 year extension worth $100M + right now. It's not a foregone conclusion that he can just keep pitching the way he has been until he becomes a free agent.

Others here think a team friendly extension would be more prudent based on health history and just 100 inning of great stats.

And some think trade him while you can and let another team figure it out. It's quite a unique situation.

25 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I thought they had fucked him up forever, I'm talking about back in 2020-21.

Hahn completely mismanaged Crochet. Also, I'm not sure he'd be this good without the cutter he added this year. 

As I mentioned earlier if you view what the Sox did ( surely it was not Hahn's decision alone since he's not a coach or scout), that path led directly to where is right now so calling it mismanagement seems out of place.

And pitchers always try new things as do hitters. That's part of development.

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't think anyone can actually say with any amount of certainty that even if Crochet had been developed as a starter that he wouldve been doing what he's doing now earlier.

Maybe it's just that in college and his early years with the Sox his body or arm was not equipped to handle either role without injury. He probably ends up having TJS either way.

He's much bigger and stronger now than he was back then . We have to keep in mind that despite all the gnashing of teeth about how he was developed it led directly to what he's doing now .

It's just wish casting to think  Crochet would've been at where he is now sooner.

My very uneducated guess was that he was injured in college, and never fully recovered until forced to with TJS. 

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

My very uneducated guess was that he was injured in college, and never fully recovered until forced to with TJS. 

He was built more like Sale until he physically matured. Now he's built like a Sequoia ( as one of our posters said) .

So my speculative guess is that he just couldn't handle much of any type of pitching before he became the physically imposing specimen he is now after TJS.

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But that wasn't necessarily the plan going into the season. He could've just as easily got hurt or not been as good as he has been before he had any worth like many including me were expecting.

It's been good from the Sox perspective that they have a valuable player they can move but also from Crochet's perspective that he's betting on himself to make millions in a few years. How that works out for him IDK.

Some think he's worth a 4 or 5 year extension worth $100M + right now. It's not a foregone conclusion that he can just keep pitching the way he has been until he becomes a free agent.

Others here think a team friendly extension would be more prudent based on health history and just 100 inning of great stats.

And some think trade him while you can and let another team figure it out. It's quite a unique situation.

Not going into the season. My guess would be that they tried the starter for lack of options. When it turned out this good he became trade fodder and increasing his value is the priority. 

Same reason they are playing vets over the kids. Maximize their value, trade the ones they can, release the others and play kids after the deadline.

Edited July 4, 20241 yr by ptatc

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't think anyone can actually say with any amount of certainty that even if Crochet had been developed as a starter that he wouldve been doing what he's doing now earlier.

Maybe it's just that in college and his early years with the Sox his body or arm was not equipped to handle either role without injury. He probably ends up having TJS either way.

He's much bigger and stronger now than he was back then . We have to keep in mind that despite all the gnashing of teeth about how he was developed it led directly to what he's doing now .

It's just wish casting to think  Crochet would've been at where he is now sooner.

It’s not that he would have been where he is now sooner, it’s that he’d be where he is now with like two years less service time.

Two years of service time were essentially wasted

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He was built more like Sale until he physically matured. Now he's built like a Sequoia ( as one of our posters said) .

So my speculative guess is that he just couldn't handle much of any type of pitching before he became the physically imposing specimen he is now after TJS.

Part if it was he never built up the innings. He is one the COVID shutdown really hurt. He was supposed to ease into a starting role that year.

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Not going into the season. My guess would be that they tried the starter for lack of options. When it turned out this good he became trade fodder and increasing his value is the priority. 

Same reason they are playing vets over the kids. Maximize their value, trade the ones they can, release the others and play kids after the deadline.

I'll be curious to see if in fact this takes place. 

33 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'll be curious to see if in fact this takes place. 

Me too. This is just my prognosticating. I think some depends on how many they can trade. 

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Me too. This is just my prognosticating. I think some depends on how many they can trade. 

I would think, at the very least, Pham, DeJong and Fedde are gone. That's a spot in the IF, OF and rotation to play with. 

2 hours ago, 4OCS said:

It’s not that he would have been where he is now sooner, it’s that he’d be where he is now with like two years less service time.

Still don't think you can say that. COVID and TJS took care of that. He just wasn't ready until after he became bigger and that wasn't till after the TJS. This is essentially his 1st year after TJS.

.