24-25 NFL Thread

[Kyyle23]

With how the first 9 shook out, this doesn’t surprise me.  I wish one of the OTs was there to see if they would have picked one, but it is what it is.  I hope we can eventually see something akin to what Patriots were doing with Gronk and Hernandez back in the day but definitely have to remain worried about line depth on both sides at the moment.  Still have the rest of the draft and June cuts to fix some of that 

[Texsox]

The entire draft was underwhelming. 

Could it be . . .

We really didn't want an offensive innovator as head coach. We wanted basic, do it the conventional way that most every other team would. It's comfortable and the Bear's way of doing business for decades. 

Two tight ends, one blocking - one receiving. WTF? We don't start trends, we catch up to them five years later. 

I'm willing to watch and see. I'm not willing to get excited, Chicago sports have killed that for me. But I'm willing to wait until week three to say it's a stupid draft pick. 

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

With how the first 9 shook out, this doesn’t surprise me.  I wish one of the OTs was there to see if they would have picked one, but it is what it is.  I hope we can eventually see something akin to what Patriots were doing with Gronk and Hernandez back in the day but definitely have to remain worried about line depth on both sides at the moment.  Still have the rest of the draft and June cuts to fix some of that 

I’m more disappointed we could not get back into the first to get conerly/simmons, but when the falcons give up a future first to get back into…well let’s just say I’m relieved we didn’t do anything stupid. 
 

this draft sucks…do NOT trade for more value in this draft at the expense of next year…our first relatively covid free set of players.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

17 minutes ago, bmags said:

 

Problem is drafting a bad player at a better position doesn’t help team building either.

They can also trade kmet.

this draft had 2 blue chip players, a bunch of good TEs/RBs, off-ball LBs and a bunch of tweeters at premium positions.

At least he is proper size and speed without character concerns.

I hear you and the general argument, but I'd have taken the guy the niners did. They need line depth and health.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

45 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

With how the first 9 shook out, this doesn’t surprise me.  I wish one of the OTs was there to see if they would have picked one, but it is what it is.  I hope we can eventually see something akin to what Patriots were doing with Gronk and Hernandez back in the day but definitely have to remain worried about line depth on both sides at the moment.  Still have the rest of the draft and June cuts to fix some of that 

Those pats teams didn't have dj moore and rome. Only one football to go around.

Edited April 25 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Not sure what you're reading but on about 10 analysis i read, even the ones that liked Loveland more, have the blocking edge to warren.

We don’t need another blocking TE, so not sure why you continue to ignore scheme and personnel in this.  Loveland is going to be our #3 receiver and being a big slot will create mismatches and put opposing teams in a position of weakness somewhere.  You highlight LaPorta’s numbers falling, but the Lions’ offense was the best in the NFL and Jameson Williams finally blew up and the RBs combined for like 800 yards.  Is Amon St. Brown suddenly not as good as he was because he got less targets?  Defenses can’t effectively guard an offense full of weapons and sometimes it’s the next tier of players who benefit the most from a stats perspective.

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I hear you and the general argument, but I'd have taken the guy the niners did. They need line depth and health.

I would have too. He at least had correct body, measurable and a plausible upside argument. Just crazy because that would be a guy in the 20s normally. 
 

I would have liked Jalon walker too but it was so clearly a not good fit in the scheme. 
 

I hope we get the bc edge…but again…great talent but bad fit for us. He’d be destined to be a DPR.

For as much as it was discussed bears didn’t have major holes…they have an injured LT, concussion prone S, no pass rush.

Feasible options to get real talent in second round but if they go S/Edge the o line really needs investment starting next year.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We don’t need another blocking TE, so not sure why you continue to ignore scheme and personnel in this.  Loveland is going to be our #3 receiver and being a big slot will create mismatches and put opposing teams in a position of weakness somewhere.  You highlight LaPorta’s numbers falling, but the Lions’ offense was the best in the NFL and Jameson Williams finally blew up and the RBs combined for like 800 yards.  Is Amon St. Brown suddenly not as good as he was because he got less targets?  Defenses can’t effectively guard an offense full of weapons and sometimes it’s the next tier of players who benefit the most from a stats perspective.

The 2nd tight end on the lions had 17 targets last year.

Lions offense was best in nfl and they werent doing that with two tight ends. Kmet caught 47 of 55 total targets last year. There just isn't much room to improve the outcomes of that room. The gain is minimal at best. If Loveland plays in the slot it'll be once or twice a game, he certainly can't exist there more frequently. 

I'm far from an expert on players and their future outcomes, but I have a better understanding of team building and where to invest resources and what the bears are doing hasn't been a recipe for success historically.

Edited April 25 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Milkman delivers]

41 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

With how the first 9 shook out, this doesn’t surprise me.  I wish one of the OTs was there to see if they would have picked one, but it is what it is.  I hope we can eventually see something akin to what Patriots were doing with Gronk and Hernandez back in the day but definitely have to remain worried about line depth on both sides at the moment.  Still have the rest of the draft and June cuts to fix some of that 

Ideally minus the murders.

In all seriousness, the pick may have been the best option given what was on the board, but coming away with a TE is definitely a letdown.

[Kyyle23]

Yes yes no murders correct

[bmags]

12 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Yes yes no murders correct

Ideally. But you can’t argue with the production

[bmags]

I would say Ray is right though, this pick is ultimately not to coexist with Kmet.

Bears need more players that can play on time in this system. It’s not just Caleb. Keenan, kmet were slow off the line and to get to their spots. Loveland is getting those targets.

[Tony]

Kmet also most likely isn’t long for the organization. If they cut him after the season, believe there is only about 3 million in dead money.

A few weeks ago BJ met the media and spoke on a bunch of different current Bears players, but when Kmet came up, his reviews weren’t as glowing. It was a specific topic on sports radio that day, as they found it somewhat telling the choice of words Johnson used when describing Kmet. 
 

Not saying it justifies the pick, but it’s clear BJ works the TE position into a lot of his offensive packages and I’m going to roll with him for now. Opinions can change quickly, however. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

25 minutes ago, Tony said:

Kmet also most likely isn’t long for the organization. If they cut him after the season, believe there is only about 3 million in dead money.

A few weeks ago BJ met the media and spoke on a bunch of different current Bears players, but when Kmet came up, his reviews weren’t as glowing. It was a specific topic on sports radio that day, as they found it somewhat telling the choice of words Johnson used when describing Kmet. 
 

Not saying it justifies the pick, but it’s clear BJ works the TE position into a lot of his offensive packages and I’m going to roll with him for now. Opinions can change quickly, however. 

Yeah, the reason I won't strongly argue warren over Love is because BJ was a tight ends coach and seems to know what he's doing there and I'm not and don't pretend to be one. If he likes him better, I'm fine taking him.

My issue is with the idea this was a BJ pick. Coaches in the NFL do not have a strong track record with being the defacto GM and coach. Seperation between the two has been really important for most successful organizations even though they clearly work together.

Edited April 25 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Tony]

 

[WhiteSox2023]

55 minutes ago, Tony said:

Kmet also most likely isn’t long for the organization. If they cut him after the season, believe there is only about 3 million in dead money.

A few weeks ago BJ met the media and spoke on a bunch of different current Bears players, but when Kmet came up, his reviews weren’t as glowing. It was a specific topic on sports radio that day, as they found it somewhat telling the choice of words Johnson used when describing Kmet. 
 

Not saying it justifies the pick, but it’s clear BJ works the TE position into a lot of his offensive packages and I’m going to roll with him for now. Opinions can change quickly, however. 

This is true.  Per Spotrac — “POTENTIAL OUT: 2026, 3 YR, $33,103,306; $3,200,000 DEAD CAP”.  Hopefully the Bears can trade him for a pick before this happens but at least they have a cheap out from paying him.

 

Edited April 25 by WhiteSox2023

[Tony]

You can look at in two ways. 1. Bears could have gotten a really good player that other teams we're also high on....  2. There probably was a market for the Bears to trade down

[bmags]

17 minutes ago, Tony said:

You can look at in two ways. 1. Bears could have gotten a really good player that other teams we're also high on....  2. There probably was a market for the Bears to trade down

I always thought Denver was available. Would have done Derrick Harmon personally. Those teams aren't idiots ...but if a future first was available that would have been sweet *20 to 10 should not be that, only Ryan Pace ever paid that price.

[chw42]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The 2nd tight end on the lions had 17 targets last year.

Lions offense was best in nfl and they werent doing that with two tight ends. Kmet caught 47 of 55 total targets last year. There just isn't much room to improve the outcomes of that room. The gain is minimal at best. If Loveland plays in the slot it'll be once or twice a game, he certainly can't exist there more frequently. 

I'm far from an expert on players and their future outcomes, but I have a better understanding of team building and where to invest resources and what the bears are doing hasn't been a recipe for success historically.

Loveland lined up in the slot 43% of the time at Michigan. He only lined up in-line about 40% of the time.

[chw42]

29 minutes ago, bmags said:

I always thought Denver was available. Would have done Derrick Harmon personally. Those teams aren't idiots ...but if a future first was available that would have been sweet *20 to 10 should not be that, only Ryan Pace ever paid that price.

Fair value in that situation would have netted us another 2nd round pick, but I'm not sure teams were willing to pay that given how many evaluators thought picks 10-40 were all pretty similar talent wise.

[bigruss]

Such a weak draft, I don't think you can just say OH MAN TE AT 10!?  Johnson got his guy, I'm fine with it.  No other pick was obvious there anyways.

[southsider2k5]

This was a tough one.  The picks in front of the Bears were obviously a worst case scenario.  They needed someone to take Sanders and for the DL/OL to drop.  None of that happened.  With the story of the draft being a lot of mid first round players, odds are solid that a lot of teams thought they didn't have to trade up to 10 to get a player they could get an equivalent of at 15 or 20.

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This was a tough one.  The picks in front of the Bears were obviously a worst case scenario.  They needed someone to take Sanders and for the DL/OL to drop.  None of that happened.  With the story of the draft being a lot of mid first round players, odds are solid that a lot of teams thought they didn't have to trade up to 10 to get a player they could get an equivalent of at 15 or 20.

Obvious answer now is that they trade Caleb and draft Sanders.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

You can look at in two ways. 1. Bears could have gotten a really good player that other teams we're also high on....  2. There probably was a market for the Bears to trade down

I read rumors that the Colts actually wanted Loveland over Warren.  That could have been a nice trade down but I guess if both the Colts and the Bears truly valued Loveland over Warren, they probably made the right decision.

Edited April 25 by WhiteSox2023

[Rowand44]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Name me another team who has invested this heavily in the tight end position. La Porta caught 60 balls for 700 yards as the only viable tight end for Johnson just last year. Now the bears have two tight ends. The production and value your going to get out of Loveland is so low. The bears have a nice receiving core, they need line help and depth. Poles is a disaster.

Also, Warren is arguably a better blocker which makes this even worse. And my guy, thr second tight end in Detroit last year had 17 combined targets. This idea that you need two tight ends in Johnson system is bs. Running 12 doesn't mean you need to invest big money and resources in two tight ends. Detroit offense was pretty good with Brock Wright as te2.

It's not the perfect comparison but the Bills did something very similar with Dawson Knox and Dalton Kincaid.

Edited April 25 by Rowand44