33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would really be curious why they don't seem to value Elko at all?

The massive K rate mostly against much younger competition is probably a big reason. 

There's a great statcast post today over at BA on Elko. It's very encouraging actually. I posted it in the Future Sox catch-all thread. Go give it a read.

 

Edited April 21, 2025Apr 21 by DirtySox

11 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

There's a great statcast post today over at BA on Elko. It's very encouraging actually. I posted it in the Future Sox catch-all thread. Go give it a read.

 

White Sox don't exactly subscribe to advanced analytics lol...

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

It's exactly like that. Have you seen some of the 1B teams are trotting out there? 

Andrew Vaughn is currently at -.6 fWAR that's .1 fWAR above last place at 1B, the two bums behind him are on the MLB min. So no it's not "exactly like that".

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Andrew Vaughn is currently at -.6 fWAR that's .1 fWAR above last place at 1B, the two bums behind him are on the MLB min. So no it's not "exactly like that".

If the question is whether Vaughn could have been non-tendered and then re-signed for less this past off season, his current production is irrelevant. There were in fact several teams that got worse production from first base over the past couple years that presumably may have been willing to sign him, were he a free agent several months ago.

Perez will eventually become the 8th White Sox pitcher to have TJS.

Obviously things showed up very bad in the early tests they did.

This organization can't go a single solitary week without someone getting hurt. 

Maton at 1B / DH providing NO value while Elko can play the same positions with POP makes no sense.

10 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

If the question is whether Vaughn could have been non-tendered and then re-signed for less this past off season, his current production is irrelevant. There were in fact several teams that got worse production from first base over the past couple years that presumably may have been willing to sign him, were he a free agent several months ago.

He's below replacement for his career. It is another Getz mistake. He's one of the 2-4 worst regulars in MLB at 1B and he will be cut after this season so Getz can try and save some face rather than just move on sooner. 

What’s the leash on Vargas? If Drury and Rojas ever get healthy, does he sit vs. rhp? I mean, he’s almost as bad as last year.

19 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Andrew Vaughn is currently at -.6 fWAR that's .1 fWAR above last place at 1B, the two bums behind him are on the MLB min. So no it's not "exactly like that".

Yes, it is exactly like that. Are you actually trying to argue that after 21 games a -0.4 fWAR 1B is worlds worse than a -0.3 fWAR, or a -0.2 fWAR 1B? That's silly. Tristan Casas, Ty France, Rowdy Tellez, Enmanuel Valdez, Michael Toglia, LaMont Wade - they're all in the same group with Andrew Vaughn. It's not like there's a 29 way tie for best 1B in the game, then Vaughn's the oddball. 

17 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's below replacement for his career. It is another Getz mistake. He's one of the 2-4 worst regulars in MLB at 1B and he will be cut after this season so Getz can try and save some face rather than just move on sooner. 

I thought they should have non-tendered Vaughn and gone with an Elko/Colas rotation at 1B, so you're not correcting me on anything. But I can certainly understand hanging onto Vaughn for a relatively low price, as stepping up 0.1 fWAR probably wasn't seen as worth it. It's a rebuild, 1B is filled while Vaughn gets another couple months to look like a first-rounder before they move onto Elko or Sosa at 1B for the rest of 2025. 

23 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

What’s the leash on Vargas? If Drury and Rojas ever get healthy, does he sit vs. rhp? I mean, he’s almost as bad as last year.

DFA possibly and try to get him to AAA?  I’m honestly not sure anyone else claims him, as he’s been that damn bad.

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I do.  And Vaughn was STILL 36th of 43 1Bs with at least 300 PA, as the White Sox primary 1B.  Granted they managed to also have #41 in Gavin Sheets, but it looks like maybe two teams had a primary 1B worse than Vaughn.  One of them didn't resign their primary 1B.  The other got more fWAR out of a 1B in less than 300 PAs than the Sox got out of Vaughn in 619 PAs.

 

45 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, it is exactly like that. Are you actually trying to argue that after 21 games a -0.4 fWAR 1B is worlds worse than a -0.3 fWAR, or a -0.2 fWAR 1B? That's silly. Tristan Casas, Ty France, Rowdy Tellez, Enmanuel Valdez, Michael Toglia, LaMont Wade - they're all in the same group with Andrew Vaughn. It's not like there's a 29 way tie for best 1B in the game, then Vaughn's the oddball. 

It turns out we have more than this year to go off, like last year for example.

42 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I thought they should have non-tendered Vaughn and gone with an Elko/Colas rotation at 1B, so you're not correcting me on anything. But I can certainly understand hanging onto Vaughn for a relatively low price, as stepping up 0.1 fWAR probably wasn't seen as worth it. It's a rebuild, 1B is filled while Vaughn gets another couple months to look like a first-rounder before they move onto Elko or Sosa at 1B for the rest of 2025. 

Sosa is just not going to fit a 1B profile offensively...unless it's the worst team in baseball as your standard for offensive production.

Crowing that there are a handful of objectively worse veteran/journeymen 1B than Vaughn is hardly a feather in Getz's cap.

 

Rizzo or JR Martinez could show up off the street and outproduce him starting tmrw.

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sosa is just not going to fit a 1B profile offensively...unless it's the worst team in baseball as your standard for offensive production.

It's a good thing he's on that team. He's on the 40-man without any options left. He hits, just not with a lot of power. He's an infielder who fields all 3 positions worse than the other infielders on the roster. If they want to keep his bat in the lineup, he can rotate at 1B/DH with Drury/Elko, and play 2B once or twice a week. 

25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sosa is just not going to fit a 1B profile offensively...unless it's the worst team in baseball as your standard for offensive production.

No one is saying he is a longterm option yet you keep bringing that into discussions about players.

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's a good thing he's on that team. He's on the 40-man without any options left. He hits, just not with a lot of power. He's an infielder who fields all 3 positions worse than the other infielders on the roster. If they want to keep his bat in the lineup, he can rotate at 1B/DH with Drury/Elko, and play 2B once or twice a week. 

Which is precisely why they will continue to be a 100+ loss team...

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Crowing that there are a handful of objectively worse veteran/journeymen 1B than Vaughn is hardly a feather in Getz's cap.

 

Rizzo or JR Martinez could show up off the street and outproduce him starting tmrw.

Rizzo hasn't out produced him in the last two years, why would he start now. The fact the Yankees played him the last two years is evidence to support that Vaughn would have been signed had he been non tendered, if anything

7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

No one is saying he is a longterm option yet you keep bringing that into discussions about players.

So what's the point of just constantly moving around deck chairs on the Titanic?

There's nobody other than Teel/Quero and Braden Montgomery that look close to long-term answers.

That leaves SEVEN open positions.

1 hour ago, fathom said:

DFA possibly and try to get him to AAA?  I’m honestly not sure anyone else claims him, as he’s been that damn bad.

The plan is to make sure he's in the best shape of his life and watch him crush pop-fly singles every 50 at-bats.

7 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Rizzo hasn't out produced him in the last two years, why would he start now. The fact the Yankees played him the last two years is evidence to support that Vaughn would have been signed had he been non tendered, if anything

You can always pick up guys like Sheets and Gurriel for nothing...

For JD Martinez...he's already made so much money that pickleball won out over $3-4 million a team like the White Sox.

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Nobody's saying that it is. I can't imagine the psychological turmoil you must go through every day if you interpret every sentence of baseball talk that isn't wishing for JR's death or cursing roster moves as praising Chris Getz. You keep firing these unconnected "dunks" at me. Vaughn is part of a group of replacement to sub-replacement level first basemen that teams will still try to fill their roster with. That is a correct statement. 

Vaughn outhit Rizzo in 2024. JD Martinez isn't a 1st baseman. 

Lol.  I'm not in turmoil.

The fanbase...front office and pitching staff is.

Getz won't survive another full season of this complete ineptitude.

He just won't.  Not when almost every single decision he makes is the wrong one.

It was the same with Hahn at the end. Even if you can theoretically defend a process...if the results are just not there, it's sayonara.

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Lol.  I'm not in turmoil.

The fanbase...front office and pitching staff is.

Getz won't survive another full season of this complete ineptitude.

He just won't.  Not when almost every single decision he makes is the wrong one.

It was the same with Hahn at the end. Even if you can theoretically defend a process...if the results are just not there, it's sayonara.

He will survive, JR loves him

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Lol.  I'm not in turmoil.

The fanbase...front office and pitching staff is.

Getz won't survive another full season of this complete ineptitude.

He just won't.  Not when almost every single decision he makes is the wrong one.

It was the same with Hahn at the end. Even if you can theoretically defend a process...if the results are just not there, it's sayonara.

How do you have 95k posts and you somehow new to a JR ran team?