June 10, 2025Jun 10 32 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: While I have had issues with all the goings on, the old Kenny teams would always be gathering mediocre and shot veterans trying to salvage .500 baseball, with no farm system to speak of. So, this is way more better even though the post Kenny teams haven’t cut the mustard. Youth movement s keep hope (for upside) alive Kenny Williams was 1000 times the GM Getz is. No idea how anyone could argue otherwise.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Kenny Williams was 1000 times the GM Getz is. No idea how anyone could argue otherwise. Depends which version. Although technically not the GM after 2012, he lost it. It was weird. He was always able to get guys who could hit. They might not be able to run or field, but they could hit. Then suddenly just about everyone he picked up couldn't hit, like the Sox had no idea how to recognize hitting.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 7 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Of course, Wheeler went through 3-4 seasons (previously) with the Mets where he was one of the biggest league-wide health question marks since Dark Knight Matt Harvey and the 2021-22 Chicago White Sox. And now Gilbert's on the verge of a health decision returning from a "mild" right elbow flexor strain of his own...going through more MiLB rehab starts. Yes, wheeler is the example 1A of why predicting injuries is complete nonsense. And everyone gets hurt now. Gilbert and Wheeler are on positive-side tale of injury/IP in the top 8 in the league since Gilbert entered the league.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Depends which version. Although technically not the GM after 2012, he lost it. It was weird. He was always able to get guys who could hit. They might not be able to run or field, but they could hit. Then suddenly just about everyone he picked up couldn't hit, like the Sox had no idea how to recognize hitting. He missed on Dunn in 2011, but certainly not Sale, Quintana, de Aza and Rios one year later. And that 2012 team had 7 pretty decent hitters in the starting lineup…Beckham and Alexei the only hitters in the 600’s ops-wise.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 30 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Kenny Williams was 1000 times the GM Getz is. No idea how anyone could argue otherwise. Hmm, interesting question. Judging Getz on 2 years of managing the smoldering, bombed out wreck he inherited isn't entirely fair. I'll say that Williams had moments where he was a great individual contributor. Not sure he was great at building and maintaining an outstanding team of executives. Not sure Getz is much individually, but he seems to work better with others than Kenny ever did.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 I really enjoy reading on the board the different perspectives on how to handle Grant Taylor's role. Brian Bannister has proven to be astute in the development of pitching; he has earned my trust 100%.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 49 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yes, wheeler is the example 1A of why predicting injuries is complete nonsense. And everyone gets hurt now. Gilbert and Wheeler are on positive-side tale of injury/IP in the top 8 in the league since Gilbert entered the league. There are always outliers. Look at the stats as a whole. It's not sayingbit cant happened but what are the odds. Taylor has had 75 innings pitched since high school. Hiw long will it take to build up to 180 inning work load. 3 years?
June 10, 2025Jun 10 22 minutes ago, Falstaff said: I really enjoy reading on the board the different perspectives on how to handle Grant Taylor's role. Brian Bannister has proven to be astute in the development of pitching; he has earned my trust 100%. Pitchers absolutely love working with him. They talk about him like he's a god.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Pitchers absolutely love working with him. They talk about him like he's a god. I am so glad he is with the Sox.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 13 minutes ago, ptatc said: There are always outliers. Look at the stats as a whole. It's not sayingbit cant happened but what are the odds. Taylor has had 75 innings pitched since high school. Hiw long will it take to build up to 180 inning work load. 3 years? We spent months talking about Crochet, how from 2021-2023, he pitched a combined 79 innings in three years, (in 2023 he had 25 total innings) and went on to pitch 146 innings in 2024, making 32 starts. I believe he's on pace right now for over 200 IP in 2025 (currently sitting at 88 IP over 14 starts) Another outlier? Maybe...but we seem to be seeing it more, where guys can make big jumps year to year.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 7 minutes ago, Tony said: We spent months talking about Crochet, how from 2021-2023, he pitched a combined 79 innings in three years, (in 2023 he had 25 total innings) and went on to pitch 146 innings in 2024, making 32 starts. I believe he's on pace right now for over 200 IP in 2025 (currently sitting at 88 IP over 14 starts) Another outlier? Maybe...but we seem to be seeing it more, where guys can make big jumps year to year. Possible. Bit let's look at how crochet did it. He had a year off rehabbing to turn into a starter. Taylor will not have that. Taylor also has pitches even less than crochet. I would prefer they continue to allow him to start. But we dont know how his arm was responding after even just 3 inning starts. I understand thier reasons and plan.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 14 minutes ago, ptatc said: Possible. Bit let's look at how crochet did it. He had a year off rehabbing to turn into a starter. Taylor will not have that. Taylor also has pitches even less than crochet. I would prefer they continue to allow him to start. But we dont know how his arm was responding after even just 3 inning starts. I understand thier reasons and plan. They have way more information than we have to go off of, obviously. While I'm certainly not in the habit of doing it recently with the White Sox, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. But I would think most agree that the goal should be to see if Taylor can start at some point here in the next year or so, and not already committing to him being an RP at this point.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 54 minutes ago, ptatc said: There are always outliers. Look at the stats as a whole. It's not sayingbit cant happened but what are the odds. Taylor has had 75 innings pitched since high school. Hiw long will it take to build up to 180 inning work load. 3 years? This isnt what you or Harold said. You implied he can't start because of his extension and singled out Glasnow as an example to support the point, as did Brian. That was noise at best and nonsense at worst. No one "looking at the data" would conclude that and a sample size of 5 certainly shouldn't be moving anyone from a predictive perspective.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 1 hour ago, Timmy U said: Hmm, interesting question. Judging Getz on 2 years of managing the smoldering, bombed out wreck he inherited isn't entirely fair. I'll say that Williams had moments where he was a great individual contributor. Not sure he was great at building and maintaining an outstanding team of executives. Not sure Getz is much individually, but he seems to work better with others than Kenny ever did. Kenny Williams had 3 losing seasons in 13 years as GM and the most games he ever lost was 90. His other two losing seasons had 79 wins. It's not even close. Edited June 10, 2025Jun 10 by Look at Ray Ray Run
June 10, 2025Jun 10 31 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: This isnt what you or Harold said. You implied he can't start because of his extension and singled out Glasnow as an example to support the point, as did Brian. That was noise at best and nonsense at worst. No one "looking at the data" would conclude that and a sample size of 5 certainly shouldn't be moving anyone from a predictive perspective. I said that's what they are saying by their research. This is a new one for me. But it makes sense physiologically. Bannister said looking at pitchers with that extension profile most are better suited to relief and can't handle a starter load. He didn't say that it was an exhaustive list. He gave examples.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 1 hour ago, Tony said: They have way more information than we have to go off of, obviously. While I'm certainly not in the habit of doing it recently with the White Sox, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. But I would think most agree that the goal should be to see if Taylor can start at some point here in the next year or so, and not already committing to him being an RP at this point. I agree. The fact that they were able to see crochet as a starter and pursue it, makes me give them the benefit of the doubt that Taylor isn't suited to it at this point.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Kenny Williams was 1000 times the GM Getz is. No idea how anyone could argue otherwise. My Boy, Kenny?
June 10, 2025Jun 10 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: I agree. The fact that they were able to see crochet as a starter and pursue it, makes me give them the benefit of the doubt that Taylor isn't suited to it at this point. This process should get Taylor to their innings desire this season.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 14 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: This process should get Taylor to their innings desire this season. I would think so. I cant imagine its much more than 80.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 41 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Kenny Williams had 3 losing seasons in 13 years as GM and the most games he ever lost was 90. His other two losing seasons had 79 wins. It's not even close. Timmy seems to be talking about building an executive team. Yes, KW inherited a nice core and kept it going for over a decade. I believe the David Wilder debacle happened under KW, and when Hahn took over, there wasn't really a minor league system, player-wise, to speak of. KW was known for clubhouse spies, fought with his manager and players publicly, and contributed to a lot of the chaos during Hahn's tenure. Swapping Burger into the Marlins deal for TA7 is just a microcosm of the dysfunction that guy engendered. KW won games. Yea! He also was a big part of the horrible reputation this team is now trying to shed.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said: I am just happy the White Sox seem to be using data to make decisions. I wouldn't be happy at all. Using data poorly isn't something to be proud of. 48 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Timmy seems to be talking about building an executive team. Yes, KW inherited a nice core and kept it going for over a decade. I believe the David Wilder debacle happened under KW, and when Hahn took over, there wasn't really a minor league system, player-wise, to speak of. KW was known for clubhouse spies, fought with his manager and players publicly, and contributed to a lot of the chaos during Hahn's tenure. Swapping Burger into the Marlins deal for TA7 is just a microcosm of the dysfunction that guy engendered. KW won games. Yea! He also was a big part of the horrible reputation this team is now trying to shed. Amazing how you find bad things to say about everyone but the guy who led the worst team in MLB history. You mocking winning games explains your love affair with Getz though. Edited June 10, 2025Jun 10 by Look at Ray Ray Run
June 10, 2025Jun 10 21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I wouldn't be happy at all. Using data poorly isn't something to be proud of. Amazing how you find bad things to say about everyone but the guy who led the worst team in MLB history. You mocking winning games explains your love affair with Getz though. Defensive much? I'm minimizing the winning as much as anybody here taking regular, huge swipes at the Sox organization right now. The 00's were a great decade to be a Sox fan. However, KW did not build up the development engine as GM, and traded everyone that wasn't nailed down, pretty much. He also contributed to the horrible culture issues that Getz is digging out from today. KW was a great, active GM. He made things happen. He also had his drawbacks in areas where Getz seems to be trying to improve upon. Not controversial. There's a large contingent of people who make the effort to post daily that the entire organization "has a history of losing, failing, being incompetent", etc, that you don't seem to have a problem with. KW contributed to that. If you can't acknowledge that without the personal digs, I'm not sure where to go with that.
June 10, 2025Jun 10 People forget that a big reason KW wasn't able to build any sort of farm in the latter half of his tenure is JR's underslot draft preferences and unwillingness to spend anything in LA when it was a massive advantage to have facilities down there. I partially put the Wilder fiasco on JR, because LA wasn't important and Wilder was probably just a downstream effect of trying to do it half assed on the cheap. He was a perfectly cromulent GM that did what he could and delivered some great iconic Sox players and one iconic Sox WS winner. The only one all of us have ever seen. Getz inherited Hahn's White Sox. Not KWs. Don't go there either. Edited June 10, 2025Jun 10 by chitownsportsfan
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