WestEddy Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 24 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: People forget that a big reason KW wasn't able to build any sort of farm in the latter half of his tenure is JR's underslot draft preferences and unwillingness to spend anything in LA when it was a massive advantage to have facilities down there. I partially put the Wilder fiasco on JR, because LA wasn't important and Wilder was probably just a downstream effect of trying to do it half assed on the cheap. He was a perfectly cromulent GM that did what he could and delivered some great iconic Sox players and one iconic Sox WS winner. The only one all of us have ever seen. Getz inherited Hahn's White Sox. Not KWs. Don't go there either. KW was president during Hahn's tenure, and he meddled. The Burger trade is only the most obvious example. Nobody's saying KW wasn't a very good/great GM at doing what he could with what he was dealt. We don't need to build KW into a flawless Jesus GM in order to trash Getz in comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 10 minutes ago, WestEddy said: KW was president during Hahn's tenure, and he meddled. The Burger trade is only the most obvious example. Nobody's saying KW wasn't a very good/great GM at doing what he could with what he was dealt. We don't need to build KW into a flawless Jesus GM in order to trash Getz in comparison. This is just conjecture from Hahn fanboys and nobody has said KW was a flawless GM -- you just made that up. As I've said a million times, if Hahn was so unhappy that he didn't have full control of baseball operations (again, this is just speculation) he could have resigned anytime and implied as such in any statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 So Grant Taylor.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 11 minutes ago, Baron said: So Grant Taylor.... Yeah, thanks. Sorry for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Kenny Williams was 1000 times the GM Getz is. No idea how anyone could argue otherwise. How about this...in 2000 the White Sox won 95 games, they had the 26th ranked payroll, the #1 ranked farm system in the country and 2 million in attendance. In October 2000 they handed the keys to KW and told him he could spend money. He doubled the payroll from $30 million in 2000 to $60 million in 2001...and the team went basically .500 in his first four years. Conversely Chris Getz was hired Sept 1, 2023, given a 101-loss team, with a top 10 payroll, the 28th ranked farm system, 24th in attendance with orders to dramatically cut payroll and Tony Larussa as special adviser to baseball operations, coaching and player development staffs. Come on man, when they hired Hercules to clean up King Augeas' stables no one thought it would happen without a lot of s%*# flying everywhere. Maybe we give the poor man a bit more time before we label KW 1000 x better. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 16 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: How about this...in 2000 the White Sox won 95 games, they had the 26th ranked payroll, the #1 ranked farm system in the country and 2 million in attendance. In October 2000 they handed the keys to KW and told him he could spend money. He doubled the payroll from $30 million in 2000 to $60 million in 2001...and the team went basically .500 in his first four years. Conversely Chris Getz was hired Sept 1, 2023, given a 101-loss team, with a top 10 payroll, the 28th ranked farm system, 24th in attendance with orders to dramatically cut payroll and Tony Larussa as special adviser to baseball operations, coaching and player development staffs. Come on man, when they hired Hercules to clean up King Augeas' stables no one thought it would happen without a lot of s%*# flying everywhere. Maybe we give the poor man a bit more time before we label KW 1000 x better. You know who helped build up the farm system as the director of operations there and then the VP of player development between 1995-2000? Kenny Williams. Again, him and Getz are nothing alike. Kenny earned his promotion, then proceeded to win 10 out of 13 years with one title. Getz failed upward and has overseen two historically bad White Sox teams. Going back to another thread where I admitted my past wrongs to Kenny: "Kenny Williams wasn't the best GM in baseball, but he was a guy who put a competitive product on the field nearly every year for over a decade. He would have made the playoffs nearly 50% of his seasons under the new format, and truly only had one atrocious season." Edited June 10 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 14 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: How about this...in 2000 the White Sox won 95 games, they had the 26th ranked payroll, the #1 ranked farm system in the country and 2 million in attendance. In October 2000 they handed the keys to KW and told him he could spend money. He doubled the payroll from $30 million in 2000 to $60 million in 2001...and the team went basically .500 in his first four years. Conversely Chris Getz was hired Sept 1, 2023, given a 101-loss team, with a top 10 payroll, the 28th ranked farm system, 24th in attendance with orders to dramatically cut payroll and Tony Larussa as special adviser to baseball operations, coaching and player development staffs. Come on man, when they hired Hercules to clean up King Augeas' stables no one thought it would happen without a lot of s%*# flying everywhere. Maybe we give the poor man a bit more time before we label KW 1000 x better. You're overlooking the Thomas injury in 2001, the Loiaza acquisition, which turned into Contreras (the cornerstone of the WS run) eventually, the 2003 team coming into mid August looking like one of the best teams in the AL and all the great moves/trades that set up the 2005 team for success. That 2000 team was working with smoke and mirrors in terms of their starting rotation as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Also...Williams teams always had power in the middle of their lineups and were built to entertain fans in their home park especially...even when they didn't win and were around .500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Kenny Williams had 3 losing seasons in 13 years as GM and the most games he ever lost was 90. His other two losing seasons had 79 wins. It's not even close. KW was successful before the sport started modernizing because he was a really good talent evaluator. Once other teams started leveraging, analytics, biomechanics, pitching labs, other technology, etc the org imploded. And honestly, a lot of that falls on him. He was certainly leagues better than Rick Hahn as GM though. Still way too early to judge Getz with any certainty. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 43 minutes ago, Baron said: So Grant Taylor.... He's gonna be one hell of a closer. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 Official now, Bryse DFA'd 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 47 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You know who helped build up the farm system as the director of operations there and then the VP of player development between 1995-2000? Kenny Williams. Again, him and Getz are nothing alike. Kenny earned his promotion, then proceeded to win 10 out of 13 years with one title. Getz failed upward and has overseen two historically bad White Sox teams. Going back to another thread where I admitted my past wrongs to Kenny: "Kenny Williams wasn't the best GM in baseball, but he was a guy who put a competitive product on the field nearly every year for over a decade. He would have made the playoffs nearly 50% of his seasons under the new format, and truly only had one atrocious season." I don't think the core of that 1990 team had anything to do with KW. Frank Thomas and Ray Durham were Larry Himes guys. Konerko trade was Schueler as was the Jose Valentine pickup, Ordonez and Lee were 91 and 94 UDFA which would also have been Schueler. KW from his bio was Minor League director in 95 and 96 and in those two draft classes I think there was only one important player...Joe Crede a fifth rounder. Yes he may have built that #1 farm system but it seems it mostly fizzled. KW was a fun GM because he was always pushing the throttle...and we'll always have 2005. But we were in a golden position in 2000 and I just think expectations in 2001-2004 were much higher than outcomes. I'm not sure there is another way to judge a GM. As for judging Getz...can't argue with his record as minor league director...it was terrible...but man he came in and burned things down when he had the power. I think the outcome since taking over the 101 loss team with the 10th highest payroll and the 28th ranked farm system were pretty much at expectations...historically bad. But going forward he has to prove things. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Jordan Leasure is next to get the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 47 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: You're overlooking the Thomas injury in 2001, the Loiaza acquisition, which turned into Contreras (the cornerstone of the WS run) eventually, the 2003 team coming into mid August looking like one of the best teams in the AL and all the great moves/trades that set up the 2005 team for success. That 2000 team was working with smoke and mirrors in terms of their starting rotation as well. Kenny Williams made lot of trades that were poor value; a lot of them. But most didn't end up so bad because the prospects he traded away largely ended up doing nothing. He also made some brilliant moves. And then the weird: He trades a top 25 in MLB prospect, our starting catcher and another prospect to rent Freddie Garcia for 2 months....and then extends him and then we win the WS. He trades 5 WAR Carlos Lee for 1 WAR Podsednik and a middle reliever....but darned if it doesn't work. I don't know whether all of his was luck or a great eye for talent or both. , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 24 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Kenny Williams made lot of trades that were poor value; a lot of them. But most didn't end up so bad because the prospects he traded away largely ended up doing nothing. He also made some brilliant moves. And then the weird: He trades a top 25 in MLB prospect, our starting catcher and another prospect to rent Freddie Garcia for 2 months....and then extends him and then we win the WS. He trades 5 WAR Carlos Lee for 1 WAR Podsednik and a middle reliever....but darned if it doesn't work. I don't know whether all of his was luck or a great eye for talent or both. , Because saving money on Maggs Lee Valentin led to AJ Dye Iguchi Pods Everett Vizcaino El Duque Hermanson…fitting Contreras and F.Garcia onto payroll as well. Resource allocation. Pods Iguchi at the top changed the team mindset the first half…aggressive at jumping out to early leads and then the lockdown pen with three closers in one season starring Jenks Cotts Politte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 44 minutes ago, Baron said: Jordan Leasure is next to get the boot. With his stuff, I think he gets a longer leash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Because saving money on Maggs Lee Valentin led to AJ Dye Iguchi Pods Everett Vizcaino El Duque Hermanson…fitting Contreras and F.Garcia onto payroll as well. Resource allocation. Pods Iguchi at the top changed the team mindset the first half…aggressive at jumping out to early leads and then the lockdown pen with three closers in one season starring Jenks Cotts Politte. Jenkins wasnt until later in the season. First it was Takatsu (the frisbee) them hermannson, who both got hurt. They brought Jenks up from the minors into a playoff run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 16 minutes ago, ptatc said: With his stuff, I think he gets a longer leash. Problem is he's getting worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Baron said: Problem is he's getting worse True. But I think they keep working with him. As palette, Coffey and others start to come up his role will be diminished. Edited June 10 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 thank god they got Bryce the f*** outta here, what a shitty player 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 I can't believe this got down to judging Kenny's time as GM. People have lost their minds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 So long Lance Lynn re-gen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 56 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I can't believe this got down to judging Kenny's time as GM. People have lost their minds. They shouldn't have announced they were bringing him up on an off day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said: Official now, Bryse DFA'd I got me ten forward gears and a Georgia overdrive I'm takin' little white pills and my eyes are open wide I just walked a Jimmy and a White, I been a-walkin' everything in sight Six days on the road and I'm a-gettin sent home tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 On 6/9/2025 at 5:33 PM, Autumn Dreamin said: Good shout. Bannister's always a great listen. Who's the b**** on the right laughing? What a fricken clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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