How do the Sox ever improve?

[Kyyle23]

8 hours ago, nrockway said:

slow-witted.

 

somebody explain the logic to me: you hate watching this team but post about them on the forum every day. stockholm syndrome? I prefer forum-posting to TV-watching personally. Like, bud, watch something else. there's 1000 channels.

The irony of you reporting posts because you don’t like their tone, then calling people slow witted because you don’t like their response, is not lost on me.

 

[The Mighty Mite]

11 hours ago, greg775 said:

What was the atmosphere in Comiskey back then? Did many male fans wear suit and tie? And did the women get all dressed up? Did the men wear hats like in the old footage? Did fans complain as much as today?

I'll say this. Aside from postseason 05 the atmosphere in Comiskey was most magical (in the history of the old yard) in 77 with the South Side Hit Men. Amazingly it was the true Summer of Love. Fans would hi five each other, hug as the Sox battered the baseball all over the park and over the fence. Even Gamble, Spencer, Soderholm, Bannister probably all had career highs in homers that year or bullets banging off the wall. ... Amazingly that team, which had no defense of course, completely got bulldozed by Hal McRae and the Royals down the stretch and finished a zillion games out after leading the division all June and July into early August when the kids went back to school.

If life could be as joyous as the summer of 77 everybody would be on Cloud Nine in Chicago. And who better than Harry Caray to call the games in 77? Bill Veeck forever. He better be in the Hall of Fame. He should be.

Greg, yep the 50s were a different era, most men wore suits and women wore dresses to Sox games. I went to 5 games in 1959 including game 2 of the World Series with my Uncle and Mom, he wore nice sport coats and she wore a dress with high heels. Most men wore fedoras, only kids wore baseball caps, fans didn’t wear team jerseys or jackets except again for kids. Funny story around 1953 on opening day I asked my Mom if she would buy me a Sox jacket at Sears, I get home after school and there’s a Cub jacket on my bed, Sox jackets had sold out so Mom bought me a Cub jacket, I was insanely mad. The atmosphere was pretty electric in the Go Go years with fans screaming GO GO every time a Sox speedster was on first especially Aparicio. When the Yankees came to town Comiskey got crazy with huge crowds, many Sox- Yankee games drew more than 50,000 and there was always a fight somewhere in the stands.
No the fans didn’t complain like today, sort of unheard of, no internet, News on TV was on maybe a half hour at 6PM and another 15-30 minutes at 10 PM. Only 4 TV stations, 2-5-7 and 9, PBS came along in the early 60s on channel 11.

Something different was there were no Saturday night games anywhere in MLB, the Sox drew best on Friday nights and Sundays when there was usually a double header. Fans had other things to do on Saturdays like grocery shopping and yard work as most worked Monday through Friday 9 to 5. Actually though the Sox outdrew the Cubs in the 50s and 60s I would bet the Cubs had larger crowds on Saturday afternoons than the Sox but not huge crowds, maybe 10-12 thousand at Wrigley and maybe 8,000 at a Sox game, even when the Yankees were in town, they would only draw 20,000 on a Saturday afternoon but for sure on Sunday there would be a packed house.

Yes 1977 was a magical year. I'll never forget July 31 against the Royals, over 50,000 on hand and when the Sox came back and won the first game, Comiskey was so loud the place was shaking, never have I heard it so loud just like Blackhawk games at the the old Madhouse on Madison. IIRC after game 1 the Sox lead the division by 6.5 games but the Royals won game 2 and it was down hill the rest of the way, in fact IIRC the Royals swept us the next weekend in KC. KC went on to win the division with the Sox finishing 3rd at 90-72.

 

Here’s a picture of me in that horrible Cubs jacket and cap my mother bought me in 1953 because Sears had sold out White Sox jackets and caps, I refused to look at the camera,

Edited July 14 by The Mighty Mite

[Chicago White Sox]

If I’m being honest, the fastest path to a turnaround is getting our young pitching going and then trading from it to add offensive help.  Davis Martin should have been a decent trade chip to move at this deadline or the offseason, but right now I question how much value he’d even have despite the 3.79 ERA and considerable amount of control.  A 5.91 K/9 and 5.46 xERA screams impending regression and I think teams are going to be hesitant to pay for control of a guy who is likely just a back-of-the-rotation starter.  He remains a hold until he can show more strikeout stuff.  Burke & Smith have both flashed at times, but will likely need strong 2026 seasons to return any meaningful pieces that can help the offense.  As such, I don’t see any of our SPs generating much of a return this deadline outside of Houser, which will likely be limited when it’s all said and done.

Along these same lines, we need to get Schultz & Smith back on track.  If those guys can’t give us a pair of TOR starters, then the entire timeline gets pushed even further.  Them going backwards this year is highly concerning.  Obviously I think people should take minor league pitching numbers with some grain of salt as we don’t always know what guys are working on, but the level of control decline this season is hard to completely ignore.  Way too early to fully panic, but not what you want to see from these guys to feel warm & fuzzy.  Additionally, Taylor shifting away from starting can be viewed pessimistically.  Doesn’t mean he’s a reliever forever, but I’m not sure we should be pointing to Crochett as proof that the reliever to SP transition will be easy.  Candidly, I think they keep him as their closer and that takes away one of few guys with TOR upside in our system.

Beyond that, we really got to hope Thorpe, Adams, & Bush can come back strong next year and produce out of the gate.  They may lack ceiling, but they all flashed enough to warrant major league opportunities and Thorpe in particular is a guy that I still believe can be a really good mid-rotation SP, especially if the fastball adds a tick or two post TJS.  That being said, the competition for rotation spots could be fierce next year and it’s very likely a few of these guys will ultimately languish in AAA for a stretch.  I get the “cream rises to the top” thinking when it comes to having a surplus of SP options, but if the goal is to flip the lower ceiling guys before more impactful guys demand spots, then time becomes a potential challenge as windows to prove themselves will be limited.  Just something Getz and Bannister will need to work through.

[FloydBannister1983]

13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I was referring to the Sox, not the Bulls, even though they haven’t been much better.  And if you think one WS in 44 years is a good thing, well, I don’t know what to say to you.  You managed to name two positive Sox events in 44 years of Jerry’s ownership of the team.

And bad timing?  The reunion is for something that happened 20 years ago.  🤣

I don’t credit Reinsdorf with one World Series.  Mathematically they should have won at least one over 45 years and should have appeared in three.  He doesn’t get credit for winning one in a year when they traded Carlos Lee and Ordonez and nobody got hurt.

[FloydBannister1983]

11 hours ago, WBWSF said:

All I know is that this team needs at least 2 real good hitters. If that isn't done this off season, 2026 is going to be another lost season.

Spoiler alert -  2026 is going to be another lost season.

[pcq]

Tired of the Robert saga. Next chapter please. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If I’m being honest, the fastest path to a turnaround is getting our young pitching going and then trading from it to add offensive help.  Davis Martin should have been a decent trade chip to move at this deadline or the offseason, but right now I question how much value he’d even have despite the 3.79 ERA and considerable amount of control.  A 5.91 K/9 and 5.46 xERA screams impending regression and I think teams are going to be hesitant to pay for control of a guy who is likely just a back-of-the-rotation starter.  He remains a hold until he can show more strikeout stuff.  Burke & Smith have both flashed at times, but will likely need strong 2026 seasons to return any meaningful pieces that can help the offense.  As such, I don’t see any of our SPs generating much of a return this deadline outside of Houser, which will likely be limited when it’s all said and done.

Along these same lines, we need to get Schultz & Smith back on track.  If those guys can’t give us a pair of TOR starters, then the entire timeline gets pushed even further.  Them going backwards this year is highly concerning.  Obviously I think people should take minor league pitching numbers with some grain of salt as we don’t always know what guys are working on, but the level of control decline this season is hard to completely ignore.  Way too early to fully panic, but not what you want to see from these guys to feel warm & fuzzy.  Additionally, Taylor shifting away from starting can be viewed pessimistically.  Doesn’t mean he’s a reliever forever, but I’m not sure we should be pointing to Crochett as proof that the reliever to SP transition will be easy.  Candidly, I think they keep him as their closer and that takes away one of few guys with TOR upside in our system.

Beyond that, we really got to hope Thorpe, Adams, & Bush can come back strong next year and produce out of the gate.  They may lack ceiling, but they all flashed enough to warrant major league opportunities and Thorpe in particular is a guy that I still believe can be a really good mid-rotation SP, especially if the fastball adds a tick or two post TJS.  That being said, the competition for rotation spots could be fierce next year and it’s very likely a few of these guys will ultimately languish in AAA for a stretch.  I get the “cream rises to the top” thinking when it comes to having a surplus of SP options, but if the goal is to flip the lower ceiling guys before more impactful guys demand spots, then time becomes a potential challenge as windows to prove themselves will be limited.  Just something Getz and Bannister will need to work through.

Typically for post TJS, isn 't the year after the surgery, but the year after they start pitching again that their stuff (and maybe confidence) gets back to normal.

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Spoiler alert -  2026 is going to be another lost season.

No no no, two hitters will solve everything 

[Falstaff]

It's way too early to give up on Montgomery, Teel, Q, Vargas, and Meidroth.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

It's way too early to give up on Montgomery, Teel, Q, Vargas, and Meidroth.

I don't think anyone is "giving up" on them, well maybe one person, but in general, it is valid to say that there has been some red flags and/or regressions which are scary in that group.

[T R U]

16 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

It's way too early to give up on Montgomery, Teel, Q, Vargas, and Meidroth.

Vargas has now put up a .192 / .283 / .624 line across 971 MLB plate appearances over 4 years, its completely justified to have given up on him at this point. That doesn't mean he can't improve or get better, but this is a large enough sample size to say im out without criticism.

Were going to need way more than sub .700 OPS numbers from Montgomery, Teel, Quero, and Meidroth. They have 3 homeruns combined in 542 AB's. They all still have plenty of room and time to grow but were cooked if they are all just 1-2 WAR players with no power. 

[thedoctor]

it will get better when jerry leaves and we blow out every level of the org. i know margalus talked a lot about the organizational "rot" that has happened during jr's tenure, and i think that persists. yes, i know we've changed some things and updated some things and a lot of those are not things that show immediate results, but i remain skeptical.

even if our prospects succeed and become good frontline mlb players, jerry is never going to add the piece or two you always need to add to put you over the top. so if this team gets good with the current prospects, i'd just expect to be repeating a sell-off in 3-4 years once we fall short.

[southsider2k5]

51 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

No no no, two hitters will solve everything 

The "at least" is doing A LOT OF WORK in that post.

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, thedoctor said:

it will get better when jerry leaves and we blow out every level of the org. i know margalus talked a lot about the organizational "rot" that has happened during jr's tenure, and i think that persists. yes, i know we've changed some things and updated some things and a lot of those are not things that show immediate results, but i remain skeptical.

even if our prospects succeed and become good frontline mlb players, jerry is never going to add the piece or two you always need to add to put you over the top. so if this team gets good with the current prospects, i'd just expect to be repeating a sell-off in 3-4 years once we fall short.

Honestly, with the ownership timeline, about the time this ship could get turned around, should be after the lockout and stadium stuff are over with, and Ishbia SHOULD be more in front of the rudder than Jerry is, especially if the inevitable happens sooner than later.

[Tony]

30 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

It's way too early to give up on Montgomery, Teel, Q, Vargas, and Meidroth.

It's not about "giving up on them" because I don't think anyone has. And I think of the names you listed in that group, most will probably be somewhat positive contributors at a ML level. 

The problem is of that group, ideally two of them are becoming 3/4 WAR players on a season by season basis. And I don't know if we see that with them right now. 

There are just SO many holes to fill in this organization. 

As you look at things right now, almost everyone can agree 2026 is going to be another bad season. While Getz was hired in August of the 2023 season, fair to say his job really started in 2024. So 2024, 2025, 2026 were his rebuild seasons. 2027 shouldn't have the expectations of a World Series, but in normal circumstances, I'd like to think you should expect to see some vast improvements by that time. 

Looking at that potential roster today:

C - Teel/Quero

1B - Vargas?

2B - Meidroth

SS - C. Montgomery

3B - ?

LF - ?

CF - ?

RF - B. Montgomery 

DH - ? 

SP - Shane Smith

SP - Schultz

SP - H. Smith

SP - Burke

SP - ? 

 

That's a lot of actual question marks, and is anyone in the projected lineup better than just "ok"? 

They just don't have the horses right now. It would take A LOT of money to fill those holes with "good" players, something ownership has simply not done. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The irony of you reporting posts because you don’t like their tone, then calling people slow witted because you don’t like their response, is not lost on me.

 

Always be weird to me that people report and attempt to censor those online who disagree with them. Couldn't be me.

[southsider2k5]

36 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's not about "giving up on them" because I don't think anyone has. And I think of the names you listed in that group, most will probably be somewhat positive contributors at a ML level. 

The problem is of that group, ideally two of them are becoming 3/4 WAR players on a season by season basis. And I don't know if we see that with them right now. 

There are just SO many holes to fill in this organization. 

As you look at things right now, almost everyone can agree 2026 is going to be another bad season. While Getz was hired in August of the 2023 season, fair to say his job really started in 2024. So 2024, 2025, 2026 were his rebuild seasons. 2027 shouldn't have the expectations of a World Series, but in normal circumstances, I'd like to think you should expect to see some vast improvements by that time. 

Looking at that potential roster today:

C - Teel/Quero

1B - Vargas?

2B - Meidroth

SS - C. Montgomery

3B - ?

LF - ?

CF - ?

RF - B. Montgomery 

DH - ? 

SP - Shane Smith

SP - Schultz

SP - H. Smith

SP - Burke

SP - ? 

 

That's a lot of actual question marks, and is anyone in the projected lineup better than just "ok"? 

They just don't have the horses right now. It would take A LOT of money to fill those holes with "good" players, something ownership has simply not done. 

And let's be honest, if this was your team, it would take literally BILLIONS in free agency dollars to try to fill every hole with the type of top quality players it would take to make this a playoff roster.

[bighurt574]

We're so far away from even being a .500 team.  I have a hard time seeing it before 2029 at the earliest.  And that's not just because that's the first time when JR might give up control -- we just have no offensive prospects at the upper minor league levels.  And there's no chance JR spends on FA's unless we build from within first.  

[WBWSF]

I wonder how they are going to market this team in 2026. This year was promoted  with this being the 125th year of the franchise and also the 2005 20th anniversary. They've had wonderful promotions this year. The bobbleheads and other giveaways have been great. I hope they continue that next year. Other than the giveaways I don't know how they can promote this team.

[Tomas]

New owner, New GM and New hitting instructor.  This team simply lacks any major league power hitters.

[77 Hitmen]

20 hours ago, PaleAleSox said:

We are all waiting for one specific thing to happen. Not much else to do. 

 

20 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Starts at the top.

 

19 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Nothing changes until ownership does, then we'll see.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Soxfest said:

It begins and ends with JR no longer being an albatross around this organization. 

^ This sums it all up for me.

The Sox will never be "consistently competitive" again (as the OP asked) as long as JR is in charge. Period. This organization is bad in so many ways and there's no quick fix until Jerry's no longer owner and there's a major fundamental change to how it is operated.  Right now it's rotten to the core.

We're stuck in baseball hell at least until Ishbia takes over and then we just have to hope he makes dramatic changes and actually hires competent people to run this team.   That's not guaranteed to work, but it can't be worse than how things are going now.

Until Jerry's no longer owner, any talk of which band-aids to slap on this team to make it legitimately competitive is simply a waste of my time.

Edited July 14 by 77 Hitmen

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I wonder how they are going to market this team in 2026. This year was promoted  with this being the 125th year of the franchise and also the 2005 20th anniversary. They've had wonderful promotions this year. The bobbleheads and other giveaways have been great. I hope they continue that next year. Other than the giveaways I don't know how they can promote this team.

"We're one season closer to new ownership!!!"

There you go! 😉

[kitekrazy]

4 hours ago, thedoctor said:

it will get better when jerry leaves and we blow out every level of the org. i know margalus talked a lot about the organizational "rot" that has happened during jr's tenure, and i think that persists. yes, i know we've changed some things and updated some things and a lot of those are not things that show immediate results, but i remain skeptical.

even if our prospects succeed and become good frontline mlb players, jerry is never going to add the piece or two you always need to add to put you over the top. so if this team gets good with the current prospects, i'd just expect to be repeating a sell-off in 3-4 years once we fall short.

Easier said than done. Finding the right ones is often trial and error.

[kitekrazy]

19 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"We're one season closer to new ownership!!!"

There you go! 😉

I'm also getting a season closer to not seeing winning White Sox baseball.

[kitekrazy]

The new trend in baseball is the labeling called "smart" players. Maybe that's a White Sox thing.

My translation is just good enough to never play but flirt with playing .500 baseball but not look really bad at losing.