Lack of love for Sosa

[vilehoopster]

So, since the season has ended, I've been listening to a bunch of Sox podcasts and trying to watch the AFL (Unless a Sox is pitching or batting, BORING). 

But anyway, I am really surprised how on the podcasts and on this board also, a clear majority of people don't see Sosa as the Sox's starting 2nd baseman next year or going forward into the future. 

On the AFL thread in FutureSox Board, there's a discussion on whether Antonacci would move up and replace Meidroth at 2nd next year, no real mention of Sosa at 2nd next year. And when I listen to most of the podcasts, they always mention trading Sosa and an infield of Montgomery and Meidroth going into the future. 

I don't understand this thinking at all; I sort of get it, but not really. On a team STARVED for offense and power, everyone is dismissing or ready to move beyond the player who led the team in hits, RBIs, and home runs last year. What?!   

Now, again I sort of get it: Sosa is bad on defense, but really, is he that bad??  Not at all. I just googled it. He has a career DWAR of -0.9 in four years, and in 2025 his defense was in the 46th percentile. That's barely below average. Also, on one of the many podcasts I listened to (I've listened to so many that I can't recall which one), and according to AI google, many of his errors were after he was moved to 1st base.  Also, the one of the few podcasters who were pro-Sosa, to me, made a great point: he said that with Sosa, he doesn't just make errors, he makes blunders. Sosa's errors are obvious mental mistakes that seem more egregious than just a muffed ground ball and therefore seem worse than they are, when really, it's just another error. Again, statically, Sosa is barely a below average defender. 

It seems to me that we want/ need Sosa and his power at 2nd base next year. The reality is that it is much more realistic that Sosa work hard and become a solid/ average defensive 2nd baseman than to think that possibly Meidroth or Antonacci will ever hit even 15 home runs in a year. That pro-Sosa podcaster said that it very likely, with Sosa at 2nd and Montgomery at short, that the White Sox will be able to, going forward, get 60 or more home runs a year out of their middle infield. Does anyone else in baseball have that?!

Also, one very nice thing about Sosa is that, so far, he always takes a solid step forward every year that he has been with the Sox. I really don't think we want to forget that. 

Another point: Wasn't bad defense the reason why the Sox moved on from Marcus Semien?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

So, since the season has ended, I've been listening to a bunch of Sox podcasts and trying to watch the AFL (Unless a Sox is pitching or batting, BORING). 

But anyway, I am really surprised how on the podcasts and on this board also, a clear majority of people don't see Sosa as the Sox's starting 2nd baseman next year or going forward into the future. 

On the AFL thread in FutureSox Board, there's a discussion on whether Antonacci would move up and replace Meidroth at 2nd next year, no real mention of Sosa at 2nd next year. And when I listen to most of the podcasts, they always mention trading Sosa and an infield of Montgomery and Meidroth going into the future. 

I don't understand this thinking at all; I sort of get it, but not really. On a team STARVED for offense and power, everyone is dismissing or ready to move beyond the player who led the team in hits, RBIs, and home runs last year. What?!   

Now, again I sort of get it: Sosa is bad on defense, but really, is he that bad??  Not at all. I just googled it. He has a career DWAR of -0.9 in four years, and in 2025 his defense was in the 46th percentile. That's barely below average. Also, on one of the many podcasts I listened to (I've listened to so many that I can't recall which one), and according to AI google, many of his errors were after he was moved to 1st base.  Also, the one of the few podcasters who were pro-Sosa, to me, made a great point: he said that with Sosa, he doesn't just make errors, he makes blunders. Sosa's errors are obvious mental mistakes that seem more egregious than just a muffed ground ball and therefore seem worse than they are, when really, it's just another error. Again, statically, Sosa is barely a below average defender. 

It seems to me that we want/ need Sosa and his power at 2nd base next year. The reality is that it is much more realistic that Sosa work hard and become a solid/ average defensive 2nd baseman than to think that possibly Meidroth or Antonacci will ever hit even 15 home runs in a year. That pro-Sosa podcaster said that it very likely, with Sosa at 2nd and Montgomery at short, that the White Sox will be able to, going forward, get 60 or more home runs a year out of their middle infield. Does anyone else in baseball have that?!

Also, one very nice thing about Sosa is that, so far, he always takes a solid step forward every year that he has been with the Sox. I really don't think we want to forget that. 

Another point: Wasn't bad defense the reason why the Sox moved on from Marcus Semien?

 

They have Chase Meidroth, who’s the likely starter at 2B. That’s why. I do think Sosa should be the backup and get at bats at 1B/DH as well, but that plan dies if they add a 1B.

[southsider2k5]

For all of the urge to play position players out of position we have had historically, I don't get why we haven't looked at trying to get Lenyn into somewhere like LF.  The bat would play out there, and it isn't like he would be replacing a defensive whiz or a bat first LF anyway.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For all of the urge to play position players out of position we have had historically, I don't get why we haven't looked at trying to get Lenyn into somewhere like LF.  The bat would play out there, and it isn't like he would be replacing a defensive whiz or a bat first LF anyway.

Agreed

[vilehoopster]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For all of the urge to play position players out of position we have had historically, I don't get why we haven't looked at trying to get Lenyn into somewhere like LF.  The bat would play out there, and it isn't like he would be replacing a defensive whiz or a bat first LF anyway.

I guess my answer would be that it's not that hard to get 22 home runs from LF. How many teams are getting 22 home runs from 2nd base?

Edited November 19 by vilehoopster
misspell

[wegner]

I personally don't understand the Meidroth fondness on this board....his ceiling is a utility man at best and his defense is overrated.

Now I'll wait for the defensive statisticians to tell me how wrong I am. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I guess my answer would be that it's not that hard to get 22 home runs from LF. How many teams are getting 22 home runs from 2nd base?

My answer would be that you want to make the most of the talent you have in front of you.  The Sox have a ton of IF's and not many OFs.  If someone can be made to play a passable LF, do it.

[spiderman]

The issue is that he doesn't play defense will enough to project as an everyday player and they have younger players they are already projecting to fill some of those positions (2B/SS in particular). He exploded offensively so if he is back next season, He's earned playing time and to show that he can repeat an excellent hitting 2nd half of the season. Let's see if they can be creative in getting him consistent at bats and prove himself over a full season. 

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, spiderman said:

The issue is that he doesn't play defense will enough to project as an everyday player and they have younger players they are already projecting to fill some of those positions (2B/SS in particular). He exploded offensively so if he is back next season, He's earned playing time and to show that he can repeat an excellent hitting 2nd half of the season. Let's see if they can be creative in getting him consistent at bats and prove himself over a full season. 

Agree with this, IMO He doesn’t play defense well enough at second, I can see him platooning at first and DHing.  But he can spot start across the diamond which isn’t a bad thing 

[spiderman]

15 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Agree with this, IMO He doesn’t play defense well enough at second, I can see him platooning at first and DHing.  But he can spot start across the diamond which isn’t a bad thing 

I think teams typically like these guys who can play multiple positions to be better defensively so this creates a more unique situation in that he's a good bat without a position on a team that wants to improve it'elf defensively.

[WestEddy]

I think Sosa, Vargas and Baldwin get dinged at Fangraphs because of the utility. Sosa is passable at 2B, and doesn't project enough power to hold down 1B, LF or DH. I can certainly imagine him hitting 30 HRs as he matures, and that's nothing to turn one's nose up at. As far as his perception here and in podcast-ville, I hear the comment "low baseball IQ" thrown around, and I don't want to really touch that. There's some bone-headedness, but I don't think he's as bad as we've all conjured up. 

Looking at his splits, dude sure ain't streaky. I think he can and should get regular at-bats this year. He's a nice, cheap 2B option who could hit you 20 dingers. I would think that's marketable right now, and should bring back a steady OF or starting pitcher. Or he could plug in for four years. 

[DoUEvenShift]

Since Beni is injured and going to primarily DH put Sosa in LF. We threw Vaughn and Eloy out there what's the worst that can happen. 

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Since Beni is injured and going to primarily DH put Sosa in LF. We threw Vaughn and Eloy out there what's the worst that can happen. 

?

[southsider2k5]

35 minutes ago, spiderman said:

The issue is that he doesn't play defense will enough to project as an everyday player and they have younger players they are already projecting to fill some of those positions (2B/SS in particular). He exploded offensively so if he is back next season, He's earned playing time and to show that he can repeat an excellent hitting 2nd half of the season. Let's see if they can be creative in getting him consistent at bats and prove himself over a full season. 

Even more than his "defense" is that his baseball IQ seems to be non-existent.  He's just a baseball dumb player.  I also feel like LF is a better position for guys like that too.

If he is going to hang on, he has got to figure a position to stick on, and with the Sox current make up, it almost certainly isn't going to be 2B, and he doesn't look to hit enough to DH.

[WhiteSox2023]

46 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think Sosa, Vargas and Baldwin get dinged at Fangraphs because of the utility. Sosa is passable at 2B, and doesn't project enough power to hold down 1B, LF or DH. I can certainly imagine him hitting 30 HRs as he matures, and that's nothing to turn one's nose up at. As far as his perception here and in podcast-ville, I hear the comment "low baseball IQ" thrown around, and I don't want to really touch that. There's some bone-headedness, but I don't think he's as bad as we've all conjured up. 

Looking at his splits, dude sure ain't streaky. I think he can and should get regular at-bats this year. He's a nice, cheap 2B option who could hit you 20 dingers. I would think that's marketable right now, and should bring back a steady OF or starting pitcher. Or he could plug in for four years. 

I think Sosa would be the ideal option to move to 1B in a perfect world.  But even if his power grows to 30 HR, will he ever walk enough as well to be a good enough hitter to stick at 1B?

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think Sosa would be the ideal option to move to 1B in a perfect world.  But even if his power grows to 30 HR, will he ever walk enough as well to be a good enough hitter to stick at 1B?

A lot of teams run a lot of garbage out there at 1B. One NL playoff team might even be starting Andrew Vaughn. The best defensive 1B in 2025? Ryan O'Hearn. 

I think that if Lenyn Sosa hit 25 HRs, he'd be fine. MLBTR wastes their keystrokes on analyzing Josh Bell's free agency outlook. 

[zisk]

Sosa is a worse 2b than Jorge Orta was. I still liked Orta a lot anyway. If JO had a good glove, he'd be mentioned 

with Willie Randolph and Toby Harrah. I'd have to drink more Sox kool aid to list him with Bobby Grich plus Lou Whitaker.

There isn't enough kool aid in the world for Joe Morgan

[spiderman]

59 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Even more than his "defense" is that his baseball IQ seems to be non-existent.  He's just a baseball dumb player.  I also feel like LF is a better position for guys like that too.

If he is going to hang on, he has got to figure a position to stick on, and with the Sox current make up, it almost certainly isn't going to be 2B, and he doesn't look to hit enough to DH.

Good reminder. He does make a large amount of bonehead plays.

[caulfield12]

The other problem is that Getz has more of an agenda to prove that Vargas and/or Mead can stick at third.  Which leaves only second 1B DH if they don't feel he could adjust to the outfield.

He's not tied into Sosa's future success in the same way.

All that said, if Colson gets off to a slow/slumping start and Sosa is traded...who is actually going to hit the ball out of the ballpark for the Sox?

Teel?  Benintendi?  Vargas?

Robert might not even be on the OD roster.

Pereira if he doesn't strike out 35% of the time?

Edited November 19 by caulfield12

[Tnetennba]

“I don’t understand why dude who can play a position isnt thought of as the future of that position” 

 

[spiderman]

49 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The other problem is that Getz has more of an agenda to prove that Vargas and/or Mead can stick at third.  Which leaves only second 1B DH if they don't feel he could adjust to the outfield.

He's not tied into Sosa's future success in the same way.

All that said, if Colson gets off to a slow/slumping start and Sosa is traded...who is actually going to hit the ball out of the ballpark for the Sox?

Teel?  Benintendi?  Vargas?

Robert might not even be on the OD roster.

Pereira if he doesn't strike out 35% of the time?

They definitely have options now and his bonehead plays/bad defense are clear issues.

I still think he will/should find his way into the lineup if he hits. You can't be making dumb plays that cost the team runs so that does need to show improvement, but you also can't keep him out of the lineup if they found production with him.

With Robert and Benintendi in CF/LFE being unreliable and young players across the infield, there's still a spot for Sosa, but he has no value if he doesn't hit.

Is Mead part of the 3B mix for next season? If he is, that's a hole already. Is Vargas seen as 1B/3B? 

They are still short at at least one of 1B/3B, LF and DH (though Quero/Teel can help), but just saying that a guy who hits should have an most everyday role in this lineup

[Lip Man 1]

I appreciate the fact that he's hit 20+ home runs. On a solid team, good organization he'd be a full time DH because his defense and his baseball stupidity trump hitting 22 home runs or whatever that number was.

Maybe if the Sox can cut ties with Beni that is where Sosa will eventually end up. 

[soxrwhite]

He is odd man out. If he is so good then he should bring something in a trade.

[vilehoopster]

2 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

He is odd man out. If he is so good then he should bring something in a trade.

Why is he odd man out?  Why isn't Meidroth the odd man out? 

That's the entire point of my post. Sosa hit 17 more homers last year, often times clutch homers. Sosa improves every year. I keep saying it, even with his mental lapses, he was a 46th percentile defender, barely below average. It's much more likely Sosa will be a average defender than Meidroth ever hit 15 home runs. I'll go further: I would say it's much more likely Sosa will hit 30 home runs than Meidroth hit 10 next year (wouldn't you posters agree?)

Someone brought up Sosa's not taking walks. Come on, that might be of all things last year, the one area Sosa improved in the most, especially the 2nd half of the season. Is there any reason to think he won't take even more walks next year, again he improves every year. 

Actually, I and the board sort of had this conversation last year before spring training. After the trade with his walk metrics, many people already had Meidroth at the starting 2nd baseman for last year. I would bring up Sosa's five homers in September in 2024 and tell people, "Guys we need his power."

[Sleepy Harold]

1 hour ago, vilehoopster said:

Why is he odd man out?  Why isn't Meidroth the odd man out? 

That's the entire point of my post. Sosa hit 17 more homers last year, often times clutch homers. Sosa improves every year. I keep saying it, even with his mental lapses, he was a 46th percentile defender, barely below average. It's much more likely Sosa will be a average defender than Meidroth ever hit 15 home runs. I'll go further: I would say it's much more likely Sosa will hit 30 home runs than Meidroth hit 10 next year (wouldn't you posters agree?)

Someone brought up Sosa's not taking walks. Come on, that might be of all things last year, the one area Sosa improved in the most, especially the 2nd half of the season. Is there any reason to think he won't take even more walks next year, again he improves every year. 

Actually, I and the board sort of had this conversation last year before spring training. After the trade with his walk metrics, many people already had Meidroth at the starting 2nd baseman for last year. I would bring up Sosa's five homers in September in 2024 and tell people, "Guys we need his power."

Last year at second base Sosa was worth -10 DRS (ranked 30th at the position) in 745 innings and a -3 OAA per Baseball Savant. If we're talking 1B/DH reps I'm all for it, maybe even a LF trial run like ss2k5 mentioned. He's just been horrible at second base and there are better defensive options at the ready. I think Meidroth profiles better as a UTIL INF option anyways and Antonacci will get a shot at 2B at some point in 2026. Let Lenyn focus on mashing and only picking up a glove in case of emergency.