White Sox are dead last in baseball in revenue/payroll percentage

[southsider2k5]

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

These numbers just seem mostly made-up or pulled from thin air.

[chitownsportsfan]

So there is like a 100 million dollar difference between what JR claims on revenue and this chart. JR is claiming operating losses. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[Dick Allen]

As much as they tell you they make no money, they wouldn't keep being sold for billions if they were losers. The fact is, when a team is owned by a publicly traded company, like the Packers and now Braves, and they have to be truthful, they make a rather large profit.

Edited 4 hours ago by Dick Allen

[77 Hitmen]

20 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

These numbers just seem mostly made-up or pulled from thin air.

Yeah, while I don't doubt the Sox are near the bottom of such a ratio list, the overall list doesn't pass the smell test.  Aside from a few outliers like the Cubs and Royals, it's almost all big market teams near the top and small market teams near the bottom.

Are owners like Reinsdorf and Nutting (Pirates) a big part of the problem?  Absolutely YES.  But now we're arguing that even good, competitive small market teams like the Guardians and Brewers are the problem because they're not outspending teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees.   Logic tells me that it's extremely unlikely that all the owners willing to spend to win just happen to be in major markets and almost every single small market owner, even those of winning franchises, are all cheap bastards and the sole cause of MLB's competitive balance.  I just don't buy it and whataboutisms about the Pirates and White Sox doesn't change that.  

Edited 4 hours ago by 77 Hitmen

[77 Hitmen]

10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

So there is like a 100 million dollar difference between what JR claims on revenue and this chart. JR is claiming operating losses. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Agreed.  I'm sure we'll never know the real numbers.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Yeah, while I don't doubt the Sox are near the bottom of such a ratio list, the overall list doesn't pass the smell test.  Aside from a few outliers like the Cubs and Royals, it's almost all big market teams near the top and small market teams near the bottom.

Are owners like Reinsdorf and Nutting (Pirates) a big part of the problem?  YES.  But now we're arguing that even good, competitive small market teams like the Guardians and Brewers are the problem because they're not outspending teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees.   Logic tells me that it's extremely unlikely that all the owners willing to spend to win just happen to be in major markets and almost every single small market owner are all cheap bastards and the cause of MLB's competitive balance.  I just don't buy it and whataboutisms about the Pirates and White Sox don't change that.  

Part of the equation that is missing is the minor leagues and development costs. Teams you mentioned like the Brewers and Guardians history develop great toung talent. The cost of this will not be considered in this equation. They've learned that if you cant spend with the big dogs you need to develop your own at a better rate.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Yeah, while I don't doubt the Sox are near the bottom of such a ratio list, the overall list doesn't pass the smell test.  Aside from a few outliers like the Cubs and Royals, it's almost all big market teams near the top and small market teams near the bottom.

Are owners like Reinsdorf and Nutting (Pirates) a big part of the problem?  Absolutely YES.  But now we're arguing that even good, competitive small market teams like the Guardians and Brewers are the problem because they're not outspending teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees.   Logic tells me that it's extremely unlikely that all the owners willing to spend to win just happen to be in major markets and almost every single small market owner, even those of winning franchises, are all cheap bastards and the sole cause of MLB's competitive balance.  I just don't buy it and whataboutisms about the Pirates and White Sox doesn't change that.  

It's silly to blame any club for any action when it's all CBA anyways. If the cabal doesn't like how the other cabal members are operating change the rules, you know the rules you all agreed to last time. 

[Nardiwashere]

Not that it matters but isn't the topic title wrong?  Isn't it second to last?

I'm shocked/confused how the Sox revenue can be lower than everyone except Oakland.

[77 Hitmen]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It's silly to blame any club for any action when it's all CBA anyways. If the cabal doesn't like how the other cabal members are operating change the rules, you know the rules you all agreed to last time. 

I think a big issue that cabal needs to address is local TV revenues.  Many, mostly smaller market teams, have seen their RSNs go belly up and as a result a huge source of revenue dried up.  On the other hand, teams with massive, national fan bases like the Dodgers, Cubs, and Yankees can still make good money off of TV revenue.  This has made the competitive balance issue worse.     

This wasn't nearly as much of an issue 10 or 15 years ago when the RSN gravy train was doing just fine.  I want to say that the Cardinals had a $1B RSN deal a while back.  Those days are long gone.  

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I think a big issue that cabal needs to address is local TV revenues.  Many, mostly smaller market teams, have seen their RSNs go belly up and as a result a huge source of revenue dried up.  On the other hand, teams with massive, national fan bases like the Dodgers, Cubs, and Yankees can still make good money off of TV revenue.  This has made the competitive balance issue worse.     

This wasn't nearly as much of an issue 10 or 15 years ago when the RSN gravy train was doing just fine.  I want to say that the Cardinals had a $1B RSN deal a while back.  Those days are long gone.  

I think this revenue sharing will be a primary focus during the CBA talks and lockout in 2027. I doubt the players go gor a cap/floor but enhanced revenue sharing/luxury tax may work.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

This is way too simplistic of an analysis.  There are other operating costs other than payroll and to some degree those are more fixed in nature.  As such, those fixed will reflect a greater portion of total revenue for small market clubs than large market clubs.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

I think this revenue sharing will be a primary focus during the CBA talks and lockout in 2027. I doubt the players go gor a cap/floor but enhanced revenue sharing/luxury tax may work.

TV deals and equal revenue sharing would be the most obvious and logical start. The Dodgers spend the way they do simply because of the lucrative tv deal they have and the revenue they generate from it. A salary cap is a non-starter with the MLBPA, so they need to look for alternate ways to eliminate the disparity between the big and small market teams. Moving to a collectively shared tv rights package like the NFL pretty much eliminates the entire advantage the Dodgers have and would solve a lot of the disparity we see between big and small market clubs. Teams shouldn't be allowed to negotiate their own tv deals, it should be a league-wide effort so all 30 teams receive an equal share before any additional tickets sales, marketing deals, concession sales, etc. It levels the playing floor almost immediately, and you'd still be able to operate without a hard CAP to keep the players happy.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

As much as they tell you they make no money, they wouldn't keep being sold for billions if they were losers. The fact is, when a team is owned by a publicly traded company, like the Packers and now Braves, and they have to be truthful, they make a rather large profit.

Ding ding ding. 

Billionaires hate actually losing money but love losing money on paper. They dont own things from the former.

Edited 6 minutes ago by Look at Ray Ray Run