Just now, WestEddy said:

I'm not. Read the string and stop replying.

Yeah, that's a lie, on both counts. Every other post you made in the last 24 hours is taking shots at other people.

Be the change you want to see.

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Can someone explain how this "rebuild" has been more successful than the prior one? Seems like revisionist history to me.

Let's wait to see how things play out before annointing kings.

True, we haven’t won a damn thing yet but so far the makeup of these guys exceed the makeup of the losers we had from the previous rebuild, I saw it in the second half last year as those kids busted their butts every game even though they knew the team wasn’t going anywhere and on their way to another 100 loss season, the foundation was built that last half of 2025 and I thought the Sox would win close to 80 games this year, who knows what will happen the rest of the way but so far they are exceeding expectations.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by The Mighty Mite

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

…could go way back about trading Dane Dunning for Lynn. @hi8is will tell you.

I don’t know what you’re referencing… was it the time that I had Dane Dunning portrait toilet paper printed and I was really made when he was traded because I just felt wrong about wiping my ass with a player who was now on another team?

That must be what you wanted me to tell them.

👍🏼

When you rush to the active thread on Soxtalk

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah, that's a lie, on both counts. Every other post you made in the last 24 hours is taking shots at other people.

Be the change you want to see.

Apparently joking the rebuild was going to take forever at this rate meant a hyperbolic prediction of exactly 6-10 years.

Still might have been nearly that long in the AL East, NL West and NL Central…or should we now forecast JR spending on a FA frontline starter and keeping Mune in the fold for upwards of $375-425 million?

Also ran into luck with the Skubal injury and the favorite going down early barring a 2005 Astros-like run.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by caulfield12

31 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

True, we haven’t won a damn thing yet but so far the makeup of these guys exceed the makeup of the losers we had from the previous rebuild, I saw it in the second half last year as those kids busted their butts every game even though they knew the team wasn’t going anywhere and on their way to another 100 loss season, the foundation was built that last half of 2025 and I thought the Sox would win close to 80 games this year, who knows what will happen the rest of the way but so far they are exceeding expectations.

The last rebuild got back to back playoff performances before falling apart. We are exceeding expectations right now, but I don't agree with the idea that this is somehow a bigger success.

44 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

True, we haven’t won a damn thing yet but so far the makeup of these guys exceed the makeup of the losers we had from the previous rebuild, I saw it in the second half last year as those kids busted their butts every game even though they knew the team wasn’t going anywhere and on their way to another 100 loss season, the foundation was built that last half of 2025 and I thought the Sox would win close to 80 games this year, who knows what will happen the rest of the way but so far they are exceeding expectations.

I don't think anyone was hating on the makeup of the team in 2020 and in August of 2021, White Sox fans were feeling about as good as they've ever felt about their team after the Field of Dreams game.

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't think anyone was hating on the makeup of the team in 2020 and in August of 2021, White Sox fans were feeling about as good as they've ever felt about their team after the Field of Dreams game.

I brought this up the other day, but can we get another Field of Dreams game or series?

I knew the Sox were in trouble in 2021. I said that Kopech's mental issues were going to prevent him from ever being successful on the team and many of the usual suspects said that was beyond the pale.. well look what happened. Same with Eloy and Moncada for other reasons.

24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't think anyone was hating on the makeup of the team in 2020 and in August of 2021, White Sox fans were feeling about as good as they've ever felt about their team after the Field of Dreams game.

2020 was prime "Ricky's boys don't quit!". That team did collapse against Cleveland at the end of the season and laid an egg against a beatable Oakland team in the postseason after winning the first game, though. Some warning signs were there in hindsight.

I don't recall hearing the same positive team chemistry stuff we're hearing about this team, though. Some of the stories that leaked from those early 2020s teams as time went on were SUPER concerning (like the TA/Grandal stuff).

1 minute ago, almagest said:

2020 was prime "Ricky's boys don't quit!". That team did collapse against Cleveland at the end of the season and laid an egg against a beatable Oakland team in the postseason after winning the first game, though. Some warning signs were there in hindsight.

I don't recall hearing the same positive team chemistry stuff we're hearing about this team, though. Some of the stories that leaked from those early 2020s teams as time went on were SUPER concerning (like the TA/Grandal stuff).

TA was not a clubhouse leader and neither was Jose Abreu. Basically everyone just clung to the mistaken belief that we had a bunch of superstars who were underperforming because of the manager. One only needs to look at what happened to those "superstars" after 2022 and see where they are now to know the truth.

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

True, we haven’t won a damn thing yet but so far the makeup of these guys exceed the makeup of the losers we had from the previous rebuild, I saw it in the second half last year as those kids busted their butts every game even though they knew the team wasn’t going anywhere and on their way to another 100 loss season, the foundation was built that last half of 2025 and I thought the Sox would win close to 80 games this year, who knows what will happen the rest of the way but so far they are exceeding expectations.

We don't know that yet at all. June 10, 2021 the White Sox were 14 games over .500 and firing on all cylinders. They were coming off a playoff appearance and headed for a division championship. People were wearing Hahn t-shirts at the Rate. The debate was whether the WS window extended to 2024 or 2025, not fretting over the batting champ's imminent nosedive out of baseball. Take a time machine back five years and there was at least as much excitement around the team as there is now.

I obviously hope this rebuild goes better, and that the current crop doesn't flame out like the last one did (it would be pretty hard to flame out harder), but there's a lot of hindsight bias floating around Sox fandom these days.

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't think anyone was hating on the makeup of the team in 2020 and in August of 2021, White Sox fans were feeling about as good as they've ever felt about their team after the Field of Dreams game.

1 minute ago, almagest said:

2020 was prime "Ricky's boys don't quit!". That team did collapse against Cleveland at the end of the season and laid an egg against a beatable Oakland team in the postseason after winning the first game, though. Some warning signs were there in hindsight.

I don't recall hearing the same positive team chemistry stuff we're hearing about this team, though. Some of the stories that leaked from those early 2020s teams as time went on were SUPER concerning (like the TA/Grandal stuff).

Something happened after the Field of Dreams game as they played .500 the rest of the way and made a quick exit from the playoffs, a .500 team the next year and then things really went downhill, I don’t know if anyone really has an idea what happened with that 2021 team but I blame TLR more than anyone and of course JR for hiring him.

3 minutes ago, Green Line said:

TA was not a clubhouse leader and neither was Jose Abreu. Basically everyone just clung to the mistaken belief that we had a bunch of superstars who were underperforming because of the manager. One only needs to look at what happened to those "superstars" after 2022 and see where they are now to know the truth.

The game had absolutely passed LaRussa by and he should not have been hired. I can't say for sure the team underperformed due to him, but I don't think he helped.

Looks like Hinch would've also been terrible, based on the Tigers collapse since midway through last season.

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Something happened after the Field of Dreams game as they played .500 the rest of the way and made a quick exit from the playoffs, a .500 team the next year and then things really went downhill, I don’t know if anyone really has an idea what happened with that 2021 team but I blame TLR more than anyone and of course JR for hiring him.

The signs were there in 2020 when they collapsed against Cleveland and Oakland, and that's when everyone was healthy. That core only had like 110 games of top level play between 2020 and 2021.

7 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

We don't know that yet at all. June 10, 2021 the White Sox were 14 games over .500 and firing on all cylinders. They were coming off a playoff appearance and headed for a division championship. People were wearing Hahn t-shirts at the Rate. The debate was whether the WS window extended to 2024 or 2025, not fretting over the batting champ's imminent nosedive out of baseball. Take a time machine back five years and there was at least as much excitement around the team as there is now.

I obviously hope this rebuild goes better, and that the current crop doesn't flame out like the last one did (it would be pretty hard to flame out harder), but there's a lot of hindsight bias floating around Sox fandom these days.

I think (and hope) they can absorb more flame outs than last time because they have a more sustainable drafting philosophy and can actually develop talent. The early 2020s Sox were almost entirely built from the Sale, Quintana and Eaton trades and when those guys didn't work out they had nothing behind them.

14 minutes ago, almagest said:

The signs were there in 2020 when they collapsed against Cleveland and Oakland, and that's when everyone was healthy. That core only had like 110 games of top level play between 2020 and 2021.

Didn't the pitching have pretty big injury problems by the playoffs?

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Didn't the pitching have pretty big injury problems by the playoffs?

2020 rotation was Giolito, Keuchel, Cease, Dunning, ReyLo. That was pretty consistent. Don't think any of them were injured except Keuchel on the 10 day, but he was back for the postseason. Rodon was out, but he hadn't had his breakout yet and none of us counted on him. Bullpen looked relatively healthy. https://www.espn.com/mlb/team/transactions/_/name/chw/season/2020

2021 the starters just sucked in the postseason. I don't think they were injured. Lynn, Rodon and Giolito were on the 10 day list at one point. The starters made 31, 32, 30, 28 and 24 starts. https://www.espn.com/mlb/team/transactions/_/name/chw/season/2021

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by almagest

50 minutes ago, almagest said:

2020 was prime "Ricky's boys don't quit!". That team did collapse against Cleveland at the end of the season and laid an egg against a beatable Oakland team in the postseason after winning the first game, though. Some warning signs were there in hindsight.

I don't recall hearing the same positive team chemistry stuff we're hearing about this team, though. Some of the stories that leaked from those early 2020s teams as time went on were SUPER concerning (like the TA/Grandal stuff).

The 2020 team had a great vibe, and many people blamed the vibes and shift in them on LaRussa. Going into 2021, everyone was vibing. They were rocking shirts mocking Madrigal and having a good time with it. The Eloy jersey situation was happening.

Again, we're all rewriting history here. The vibes changed when the team flamed out and didn't get the job done. They flamed out when the expectations grew significantly. This team right now is riding the no-expectations wave.

More of these guys came up together so there's more history in the Sox favor with this team, but beyond that I'm not going to pretend like I wasn't on cloud 9. Those two teams were a lot of fun, but expectations have a funny way of changing perceptions.

59 minutes ago, Green Line said:

TA was not a clubhouse leader and neither was Jose Abreu. Basically everyone just clung to the mistaken belief that we had a bunch of superstars who were underperforming because of the manager. One only needs to look at what happened to those "superstars" after 2022 and see where they are now to know the truth.

Usually when a team all of a sudden starts losing the likely cause is dissension, this might have started when TA made comments in 2021 comparing himself to Jackie Robinson and also that he was the best player on the field with the Sox and who they were playing. Weren’t there a few times when TA hit a homer and was hardly congratulated by his teammates.

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by The Mighty Mite

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The 2020 team had a great vibe, and many people blamed the vibes and shift in them on LaRussa. Going into 2021, everyone was vibing. They were rocking shirts mocking Madrigal and having a good time with it. The Eloy jersey situation was happening.

Again, we're all rewriting history here. The vibes changed when the team flamed out and didn't get the job done. They flamed out when the expectations grew significantly. This team right now is riding the no-expectations wave.

More of these guys came up together so there's more history in the Sox favor with this team, but beyond that I'm not going to pretend like I wasn't on cloud 9. Those two teams were a lot of fun, but expectations have a funny way of changing perceptions.

I dunno man, If anything I think you're looking back at that time with rose-colored glasses. I remember people flipping out about the Sox getting swept in 4 games by Cleveland in 2020 at the end of the year when fighting for the division, and dropping 9 of their last 12 en route to blowing a 1-0 lead in a best of three against Oakland.

After the season wasn't as good as you remember either. Ricky Renteria got fired for that performance and everyone was stoked about it until Hinch LaRussa was hired a couple weeks later, which was also terrible vibes and caused a meltdown here and on sports radio. You had the press release debacle and that area in the stadium being renamed for LaRussa over (IIRC) a long-time employee of the Sox. Some of the signs of a lack of depth in the minors was showing too and people started calling that out throughout 2021. And the Harper/Machado debacle was still relatively fresh, as was the baffling trend of using their limited budget for replacement level talent and relievers.

Just now, almagest said:

I dunno man, If anything I think you're looking back at that time with rose-colored glasses. I remember people flipping out about the Sox getting swept in 4 games by Cleveland in 2020 at the end of the year when fighting for the division, and dropping 9 of their last 12 en route to blowing a 1-0 lead in a best of three against Oakland.

After the season wasn't as good as you remember either. Ricky Renteria got fired for that performance and everyone was stoked about it until Hinch LaRussa was hired a couple weeks later, which was also terrible vibes and caused a meltdown here and on sports radio. You had the press release debacle and that area in the stadium being renamed for LaRussa over (IIRC) a long-time employee of the Sox. Some of the signs of a lack of depth in the minors was showing too and people started calling that out throughout 2021. And the Harper/Machado debacle was still relatively fresh, as was the baffling trend of using their limited budget for replacement level talent and relievers.

People flip out here about everything my guy. It's not a great barometer.

That team was 10 games over .500 after 60 games. This team is 5 games over 500 after 67 games. There was much more hype for the last rebuild going into 2020 than there was hype for this year. Fans then changed their expectations for the group, and were disappointed. That will also happen with this team as soon as people adjust their expectations. Right now, many are just expecting the floor to fall out so the enjoyment with each win is at an all-time vibehigh.

For the record, I enjoyed it all because I just want to compete and be entertained for the summer.

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

People flip out here about everything my guy. It's not a great barometer.

That team was 10 games over .500 after 60 games. This team is 5 games over 500 after 67 games. There was much more hype for the last rebuild going into 2020 than there was hype for this year. Fans then changed their expectations for the group, and were disappointed. That will also happen with this team as soon as people adjust their expectations. Right now, many are just expecting the floor to fall out so the enjoyment with each win is at an all-time vibehigh.

For the record, I enjoyed it all because I just want to compete and be entertained for the summer.

Yea, they do, but there's a difference between being miserable about random nonsense and misery over legit issues. Being pissed about choking away a division title and playoff series in 2020 is legit. Being pissed about Machado/Harper and having a terrible free agency strategy is legit. Being pissed about LaRussa and that whole debacle is legit. Worrying about org player depth is legit.

I also don't disagree with you about this season either. It's been awesome and they're already playing with house money from my perspective, but there are things they'll need to fix or they won't be able to take the next step. Pitching depth is a big issue for the Sox. They'll need to make some smart moves to bolster that. They'll also need Murakami and Teel back and producing because I don't think everyone is going to keep hitting like this through next season, much less for the rest of this one, and they'll need to have more insurance against a couple slumps taking down the offense.

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I just want to clear one thing up. I hate on everyone's opinions equally, and in no way, shape or form do I support a position or a post just because someone said it versus someone else.

I rip into CWS2023 as much as anyone here. He just doesn't get upset about it or take it personally. He has some fun with it like I do. I also disagree with SS2k's post all the time but we say one or two things, and then move on.

Hey pal…

My guy…

I thought you hated me just because I am a closet Cubs fan and have a shrine to PCA in my basement?

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by WhiteSox2023

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The last rebuild got back to back playoff performances before falling apart. We are exceeding expectations right now, but I don't agree with the idea that this is somehow a bigger success.

Because at this point in time it isn't. People just want to make declarations so that a year or 2 from now they can show everyone that they were right. Does it seem that they are drafting and developing better? Yes. When players come up they don't appear to be overmatched. They aren't being asked to do things they aren't comfortable with which indicates coaches at all levels are doing better jobs. All the pieces are there to have the arrow pointing up at this time. They just need to win and prove it now.