44 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

this kind of stuff actually happened........one of the last places I worked was not very professional. I look back on it now............it sure seems evil today and rightfully so.

Oh I am well aware it happened, I just don’t understand the want for more

14 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

I'm wondering if Shirley is one reason why the Sox haven't drafted any African-American players of any consequence since Tim Anderson back in 2013. I mean, I can't think of one Black player that they've drafted since then, in any round.

Part of me couldn't help but look back and see every #1 pick has been white since Shirley took over. The other part of me also gets that this could be coincidence with the participation rate of African-American's in baseball is at an all time low, and the prime time for Latin players to be signed is a separate marketplace, meaning most of the guys out there are going to have a like of things in common when it comes to race.

It would be interesting to go back and see who was on the board around those Sox picks and see if there were plausible picks on the board.

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

No news yet but word is that @WBWSF may be looking to interview, as Jerry already has his resume.

Terrific post. Very well played sir! 😁

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Part of me couldn't help but look back and see every #1 pick has been white since Shirley took over. The other part of me also gets that this could be coincidence with the participation rate of African-American's in baseball is at an all time low, and the prime time for Latin players to be signed is a separate marketplace, meaning most of the guys out there are going to have a like of things in common when it comes to race.

It would be interesting to go back and see who was on the board around those Sox picks and see if there were plausible picks on the board.

I was going to post this but I didn’t want to without seeing/having the percentages. But I’m sure you’re right regardless.

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Part of me couldn't help but look back and see every #1 pick has been white since Shirley took over. The other part of me also gets that this could be coincidence with the participation rate of African-American's in baseball is at an all time low, and the prime time for Latin players to be signed is a separate marketplace, meaning most of the guys out there are going to have a like of things in common when it comes to race.

It would be interesting to go back and see who was on the board around those Sox picks and see if there were plausible picks on the board.

Yeah, the participation rate of Black players in baseball in the last 25 years or so is definitely a factor. That said, up to 2013, the Sox were always good for drafting African-American players in the early rounds -- some picks panned out, more or less (Marcus Semien, TA) and other didn't (Courtney Hawkins, Jared Mitchell, Jacob May, etc.). But after TA, the pipeline to Black players completely dried up. And this is even though the Sox sponsored events for minority amateurs like the Double Duty Game. I can't help but attribute this to Shirley's rise in the organization (and KW's being kicked upstairs after 2012).

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

It’s just tremendously weird that there is a large subset of people who openly opine for the better days when they could openly insult people in work spaces and it was fine.

I don’t come to work for that. I don’t want to do that to other people. Just doesn’t make sense

I'm not opining for it. It happened. Sexual harassment was everywhere. And I agree with cracking down on it. Not saying I liked the asst. store manager asking me if there was anything between me and the cashier I was giving a ride home after work. It happened. I suppose that makes me a victim of harassment.

Shirley should have been fired, and they'll get somebody better and who won't distract his co-workers and reports with BS, or give the impression that the White Sox org is filled with idiots spouting off about some kid's mom. But let's not pretend this isn't all around the industry, and only the White Sox tolerate bad behavior. Shirley had a title that said he should have known better than to behave that way. He was on a leash, and they fired him. I'm happy about that.

35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Part of me couldn't help but look back and see every #1 pick has been white since Shirley took over. The other part of me also gets that this could be coincidence with the participation rate of African-American's in baseball is at an all time low, and the prime time for Latin players to be signed is a separate marketplace, meaning most of the guys out there are going to have a like of things in common when it comes to race.

It would be interesting to go back and see who was on the board around those Sox picks and see if there were plausible picks on the board.

Makes you wonder how serious they actually were on Vahn Lackey.

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not opining for it. It happened. Sexual harassment was everywhere. And I agree with cracking down on it. Not saying I liked the asst. store manager asking me if there was anything between me and the cashier I was giving a ride home after work. It happened. I suppose that makes me a victim of harassment.

Shirley should have been fired, and they'll get somebody better and who won't distract his co-workers and reports with BS, or give the impression that the White Sox org is filled with idiots spouting off about some kid's mom. But let's not pretend this isn't all around the industry, and only the White Sox tolerate bad behavior. Shirley had a title that said he should have known better than to behave that way. He was on a leash, and they fired him. I'm happy about that.

You prefaced it by saying Gen X/millennials are funny, like you couldn’t believe it was an issue. Of course it sucked. Nobody likes being talked down to

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yet the MLB took no action and Clevinger didn’t lose his job. Perhaps there may have been more evidence of the accusations against Shirley. The White Sox apparently didn’t treat Shirley with zero tolerance considering there was a previous allegation against him in 2022.

Clevenger was employed under a negotiated union contract. Shirley wasn't.

The team investigated the previous complaints against Shirley in '22, and didn't find anything that reached the level of firing him. That was under KW/Hahn, BTW. I don't know if Getz was hearing a steady stream of complaints since he took over. Being verbally abusive to one's reports doesn't just spontaneously happen overnight.

14 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You prefaced it by saying Gen X/millennials are funny, like you couldn’t believe it was an issue. Of course it sucked. Nobody likes being talked down to

Okay, that part of my post was wrong. I was reacting to someone saying that recognizing problem behavior and firing the person doesn't exonerate the org. I grew up in a time where this stuff was flying around all the time in the workplace. Again, those weren't the good ole' days.

I can't believe acting like this is something unique to the White Sox. It's a good ole' boy industry.

33 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You prefaced it by saying Gen X/millennials are funny, like you couldn’t believe it was an issue. Of course it sucked. Nobody likes being talked down to

Especially since the ownership group that enabled this is neither of those things.

30 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Clevenger was employed under a negotiated union contract. Shirley wasn't.

The team investigated the previous complaints against Shirley in '22, and didn't find anything that reached the level of firing him. That was under KW/Hahn, BTW. I don't know if Getz was hearing a steady stream of complaints since he took over. Being verbally abusive to one's reports doesn't just spontaneously happen overnight.

I get the reflex is to try to abdicate any responsibility to Getz, and I think that is the reason for the more ridiculous parts of that post, especially since his name comes up expressly in this one, but it just comes off as excusing and enabling said behavior. Who cares who, that's not the important part. I don't need Back in My Day excuses for this s%*#. Back in my day we did a lot of stupid things, but the idea is to grow up and be better. Own up and grow up is the path. Again, this isn't the Sox first rodeo here either. They seem to be acquiring a history of questionable behavior with their employees.

14 hours ago, WestEddy said:

You give the other person 3 names, and they have to tell you, from those three people you both know, which one they'd copulate with, which one they'd marry, and which one they'd kill. The drinky convo was explaining your logic. Okay, you go first. WS23, SS2k5 and Paulie4Prez.

I don’t know if @caulfield12 mentioned his desired order, but let me invite you to an exclusive front row seat. Raincoats are an additional cost.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I get the reflex is to try to abdicate any responsibility to Getz, and I think that is the reason for the more ridiculous parts of that post, especially since his name comes up expressly in this one, but it just comes off as excusing and enabling said behavior. Who cares who, that's not the important part. I don't need Back in My Day excuses for this s%*#. Back in my day we did a lot of stupid things, but the idea to grow up and be better. Own up and grow up is the path. Again, this isn't the Sox first rodeo here either. They seem to be acquiring a history of questionable behavior with their employees.

I sure hope you get to say that stuff to the guy who actually said those things. None of that is what I actually posted.

You and others use any news like this to take a steaming dump on the org and pretend this isn't systemic in the game. The Angels had a pitcher choke on his vomit after partying with fentanyl and oxycodone supplied by team employees. Other teams fired GMs for having affairs with their employees. Bad on Reinsdorf for letting all of that happen.

I have grown up. And I've emerged from the stuff I described happening around me a better person. I'm going to go pray on this, now, and my prayer will be that you learn how to comprehend the things you read and maybe lose some of the hatred you have in your heart. God Bless You.

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I sure hope you get to say that stuff to the guy who actually said those things. None of that is what I actually posted.

You and others use any news like this to take a steaming dump on the org and pretend this isn't systemic in the game. The Angels had a pitcher choke on his vomit after partying with fentanyl and oxycodone supplied by team employees. Other teams fired GMs for having affairs with their employees. Bad on Reinsdorf for letting all of that happen.

I have grown up. And I've emerged from the stuff I described happening around me a better person. I'm going to go pray on this, now, and my prayer will be that you learn how to comprehend the things you read and maybe lose some of the hatred you have in your heart. God Bless You.

The entire, you kids just don't get it thing is victim shaming. That's the entire point. Everyone else does it, it happened when I was a kid, you aren't tough enough for this, etc is just a load of BS to deflect from the actual behavior being the problem. I don't need thoughts and prayers, I need action to prevent this from happening again to other innocent victims, yes the real victims, not you and I, Sox management, or anyone else in the positions of power.

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The entire, you kids just don't get it thing is victim shaming. That's the entire point. Everyone else does it, it happened when I was a kid, you aren't tough enough for this, etc is just a load of BS to deflect from the actual behavior being the problem. I don't need thoughts and prayers, I need action to prevent this from happening again to other innocent victims, yes the real victims, not you and I, Sox management, or anyone else in the positions of power.

You are so close. LOL. I understand that to you, older victims of sexual harassment don't matter if you don't like them. That we all deserved it because we actually like the teams we root for. I pray you learn to grow away from this hatred you embrace. People like you and Mike Shirley are of a time gone by. Dear God, please help ss2k5 find the light, and lead him out of the darkness that makes him purposefully misinterpret people's posts so he can glorify acts of harassment and blame others. Amen.

Just now, WestEddy said:

You are so close. LOL. I understand that to you, older victims of sexual harassment don't matter if you don't like them. That we all deserved it because we actually like the teams we root for. I pray you learn to grow away from this hatred you embrace. People like you and Mike Shirley are of a time gone by. Dear God, please help ss2k5 find the light, and lead him out of the darkness that makes him purposefully misinterpret people's posts so he can glorify acts of harassment and blame others. Amen.

Son, you are literally on here making excuses for this stuff. Save your sacreligiousness for someone else.

Like many, I grew up in the Catholic Church...went to mass every Sunday of my entire life through high school, was an altar boy, etc.

Never personally saw any abuse.

But that it turned out to be both so extensive and constantly covered up by moving abusive priests around...well, it eventually broke my mom's heart.

Wouldn't be a surprise if 15% (or higher) of the people working in mlb scouting today over age 50 have similar thoughts and beliefs that just aren't articulated publicly. The fact he wore that red hat around Sox facilities enough for it to be noticeable means he was too entitled and full of himself to care after 2021-22 and that initial investigation.

Certainly it's not a 100% moral equivalent between actual sexual abuse, Clevinger's reported behavior and harassing/demeaning comments...but the commonality is the need to cover things up organizationally and maintain the status quo rather than addressing them directly and "out in the light."

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by caulfield12

On 9/13/2026 at 11:12 AM, caulfield12 said:

It's also interesting if he ever wore that hat while representing the Sox outside of their own facilities...like the Area Code Games, and whether anyone ever spoke to him about it and how it made others feel.

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The fact he wore that red hat around Sox facilities enough for it to be noticeable means he was too entitled

You've said this twice now, where are you seeing it reported?

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Part of me couldn't help but look back and see every #1 pick has been white since Shirley took over. The other part of me also gets that this could be coincidence with the participation rate of African-American's in baseball is at an all time low, and the prime time for Latin players to be signed is a separate marketplace, meaning most of the guys out there are going to have a like of things in common when it comes to race.

It would be interesting to go back and see who was on the board around those Sox picks and see if there were plausible picks on the board.

Crochet could’ve been Walker. Jared Kelley Wynn. B Montgomery was obviously available although he wouldn’t have been my first choice either. Schultz over Xavier Isaac.

Should’ve for sure taken Enrique Bradfield over Jacob Gonzalez and I think people were clamoring for this.

Probably more but I’m about to get off the bus.

20 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

You've said this twice now, where are you seeing it reported?

I made a post about it earlier in the thread

3 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I made a post about it earlier in the thread

DM'd, not trying to derail

you should want these people to wear their maga hats, lets you know who these people are instead of having to guess

Does everyone want to get suspended today? We already deleted the political bs once. It won't happen again.

Here's what Shirley had to say during ESPN's inside look at the Sox 2026 draft.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/49358788/2026-mlb-draft-chicago-white-sox-no-1-overall-pick-decision-roch-cholowsky-grady-emerson

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by 77 Hitmen