TRADE THREAD III ~July 9 - July 15

[quickman]

Well, that's what you and I have been saying all along.  Get a better bench, and you and I agree that Willie does not constitue having a strong bench.  Not meant to open the whole "Willie sucks, no he doesn't" debate that's gone on here for 8 months, but heck I would take this Wilton Guerrero guy they signed for Charlotte over Willie.  This guy plays all the positions and he's got experience. 

 

As for pitching, you can never have enough and I suspect the White Sox don't, and I expect KW will do something about it.  Ideally they need a guy who pounds the strike zone, now who would that be, I hate to bring it up again but Javier Vazquez pounds the strike zone.

 

As for the bench, KW had a fiasco with Brian Daubach so he wants a guy who's content to be a bench player.  Forget about Graffanino, that's why he left and let's stop trying to read his mind as to what he'd want or not want.  We don't want a guy who's more concerned about his numbers in a contract year vs. coming off the bench and contributing.  That screws things up, not indicting Graffanino here but the point stands.

 

Think of the guys KW has liked and/or went after, and you have a decent chance of figuring out who he might target.

 

 

Well it looks like we agree again except for Vasquez, he is not coming here. I don't think the tribe will stand pat, and I think the twins will get another player Despite the terrific Clubhouse chemistry they have had all these years. Personally, I like Ryan Freel always have, but as long as he improves this team, thats what I care about. I will also take cintron although I don't think he is up for grabs.

[Guest JimH]

Well it looks like we agree again except for Vasquez, he is not coming here. I don't think the tribe will stand pat, and I think the twins will get another player Despite the terrific Clubhouse chemistry they have had all these years. Personally, I like Ryan Freel always have, but as long as he improves this team, thats what I care about. I will also take cintron although I don't think he is up for grabs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A giant hell yes to Ryan Freel. Perfect fit, we can take him to the Blatz bar after the game too.

 

Another fit is Mackowiak, that's been beaten to death on this board by His Bannedness. Just kidding lurker.

 

I suspect there are more, Freel fits best because of his speed, I don't see the Reds parting with him but who knows, every team has their price.

[quickman]

A giant hell yes to Ryan Freel.  Perfect fit, we can take him to the Blatz bar after the game too.

 

Another fit is Mackowiak, that's been beaten to death on this board by His Bannedness.  Just kidding lurker.

 

I suspect there are more, Freel fits best because of his speed, I don't see the Reds parting with him but who knows, every team has their price.

 

 

jim that organization is in such disarray, we can get him if we pursue him. By the way separate note, I do think they will try to package Willie harris in some trade. He will not be back with the sox next year. He is arbitration eligable and will be gone. So I do think, they are trying desparetly to move him. They better make some moves. Nothing will be announced until after the allstar game. The next two days are safe for all.The league doesn't want any distractions.

[Guest JimH]

By the way separate note, I do think they will try to package Willie harris in some trade. He will not be back with the sox next year. He is arbitration eligable and will be gone. So I do think, they are trying desparetly to move him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you for this tidbit Nostradamus. How do you think of these things with such clarity and clairvoyance, it is uncanny.

 

[quickman]

Thank you for this tidbit Nostradamus.  How do you think of these things with such clarity and clairvoyance, it is uncanny.

 

 

 

Nostradamus also says you are nuts to think vasquez is going anywhere.

[Guest JimH]

Nostradamus also says you are nuts to think vasquez is going anywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nostradamus just sent me a PM with the words "blow me".

 

Tell Nostra I don't swing that way!

[CWSGuy406]

If Juan Uribe is equal to Omar Vizquel defensively, I need to start watching a new sport...

[Bubba Philips]

If Juan Uribe is equal to Omar Vizquel defensively, I need to start watching a new sport...

I don't just monitor this site I go to every site that may give me enlightenment on what Kw is going to do and I think he's taken an inordinate amount of time finding a deal.. I hate to say this but I think he's going to get some underachieving veteran in their last season to address our needs and for that he will pay for them with talented prospects who may be a year or so away from contibuting on the big league level and they won't be playing for us. Come on kW you said money is no object. SO who we going to get. it's 7/11 pull the trigger so we can relax or second guess you. We want to see a word series too. 03, you said chemistry in the clubhouse improves when you start winning games so you got who you got and didn't care about Chemistry. This year you are majoring in chemistry.

[Rowand44]

I don't just monitor this site I go to every site that may give me enlightenment on what Kw is going to do and I think he's taken an inordinate amount of time finding a deal..  I hate to say this but I think he's going to get some underachieving  veteran in their last season to address our needs and for that he will pay for them with talented prospects who may be a year or so away from contibuting on the big league level and they won't be playing for us. Come on kW you said money is no object.  SO  who we going to get.  it's 7/11 pull the trigger so we can relax or second guess you. We want to see a word series too.  03, you said chemistry in the clubhouse improves when you start winning games so you got who you got and didn't care about Chemistry.  This year you are majoring in chemistry.

There's no reason to rush in to a trade. There isn't a whole lot this team needs and he's looking for the best possible deal. If a deal is made it'll be an impact player, I'll guarantee you that.

[Bubba Philips]

I certainly hope so..........

[sayitaintso]

There's no reason to rush in to a trade.  There isn't a whole lot this team needs and he's looking for the best possible deal.  If a deal is made it'll be an impact player, I'll guarantee you that.

Like Robbie Alomar?

[CYGarland]

I'm all for adding Vizquel and Schmidt to the roster, but I can't imagine the Sox keeping both Uribe and Vizquel because of their salary's, but it would be nice to be able to platoon Uribe on the IF, like Everett in the OF, and we definitely could use another LH bat in the lineup. And i did watch Schmidt's last start vs. the Cards, and he looked pretty good, he was topping out at 95, which is better than he had in previous starts, and even if he doesn't quite regain his ace form, he is still a winner, and would certainly bolster the back end of our rotation, and then maybe we could trade Contreras or Hernandez for another quality reliever......There is another trade possibility that crossed my mind, i had heard on a philadelphia radio station that the Phillies were possibly looking to trade Abreu, boy we sure could us his bat in the middle of our order. Now i don't know what they would want in return, but i know that Houston is looking for someone to replace Bagwell, and maybe we could trade them Konerko for a some top prospects, and use those along w/ some of our own to get Abreu, and move Dye to 1st, where i believe he could play very well. Now i know these trades may deplete our farm system substantially, but I'm all for winning now, #$%@ next year. We have a chance to do something very special this year, and I'd hate to waste this golden opportunity, because you never know what could happen next year, this may just be our lucky year, and I'd hate to blow it. Then again, these trades may also be pipe dreams, especially Abreu, but their definitely worth exploring. Here would be our lineup and rotation....... Pods, Iguchi, Frank, Abreu, Dye, AJ, Rowand, Crede, Vizquel....Rotation. Schmidt, Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Hernandez or Contreras.......

[knightni]

A bench with Uribe and Ozuna on it would be great.

 

Willie and Timo can say farewell.

Edited July 12, 2005 by knightni

[GoodAsGould]

lol 2 pages are JimH and Quickman talking to each other....

 

I think unless we bring in Brett Tomko are club house chemestry will be fine...

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 11:22 PM)

Griffey cant play a corner OF spot because of his knee's.... Idonno they did a special on it where it said the CF spot is actually easier on him because of some reason or not.  As far as his defense is today.... Idonno if some of you guys havent seen him play but he is still making those gold glove catches and his range is fine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly, and to say Rowand is even close to this guy defensively is a joke. Rowand does not get half the jump Junior gets. It is fine to be a homer but don't make such ridiculous statements such as Rowand is a better defensive CF than Junior. That is just nuts.

[Kyyle23]

Exactly, and to say Rowand is even close to this guy defensively is a joke. Rowand does not get half the jump Junior gets. It is fine to be a homer but don't make such ridiculous statements such as Rowand is a better defensive CF than Junior. That is just nuts.

 

This is a joke. Griffey is nowhere near where Rowand is right now in speed, athleticism, and strength. And he hasnt been for the past 5 years. Since Griffey has been in Cincinnatti, he has played 145 games, 111 games, 70, 53, and 83 games. Most of the games missed due to major injuries to his legs. He is fragile, and knows he cannot run full speed without blowing out a hamstring again and it shows. He doesnt make gold glove catches out there anymore, he barely can lay out for a fly ball anymore.

 

When Griffey was in Seattle, sure there is no comparison. But right now Rowand is by far the superior fielder, and I dont expect that to change.

 

http://www.basketballdraft.com/2004/scorec...fense.outfield/

 

Reds center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. is one of the worst defensive outfielders in the major leagues according to a list compiled by SI.com.

 

The Web site says: "Griffey has spent too much time under the knife lately to be trotting out to center field anymore. It was patently ridiculous for the Reds to ask him to take that kind of pounding this season, which was cut short once again for The Kid after 83 games."

 

But take heart, Reds fans. Griffey is only the sixth-worst outfielder, behind Boston's Manny Ramirez, St. Louis' Roger Cedeno, the New York Mets' Cliff Floyd, the Chicago Cubs' Ben Grieve and Houston's Craig Biggio.

 

In 2001, Junior suffered a hamstring injury during spring training that limited him to a handful of at-bats early in the regular season and shelved him completely until June, Torn Right Patellar Tendon(2002), Torn Right Hamstring(2004), Dislocated Right Shoulder(2003)

 

After four years with the Reds, Griffey had played in only 58% of his team's games, and hit no higher than .286.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=4305

Hitting

The Griffey who was an exciting blend of power and average has become a distant memory. He is now more of an upper-cut hitter, as he apparently has tried to compensate for a weaker lower body and declining bat speed. Griffey has all but abandoned his formerly prodigious ability to slash balls to all fields with extra-base power and now seems intent on trying to pull the ball with every swing. He rolls over far too many pitches to produce weak grounders. He also falls off too many pitches, which results in less contact and more strikeouts.

 

 

Baserunning & Defense

Various injuries to his ankle, quadriceps and hamstrings have made Griffey a tentative baserunner with average speed and someone who is reluctant to bust it down the line. The same absence of explosiveness extends to the outfield, where his range has gone backward. He still gets great jumps, and Griffey's arm strength has come back well after recent shoulder troubles.

 

Lets stop living in the past. Griffey cant play a full season anymore, and cant make it to october healthy, rendering him useless to the White Sox.

Edited July 12, 2005 by kyyle23

[daa84]

this one is not hard. griffey is the better hitter. period. rowand right now is the better fielder. rowand less of an injury risk. the offensive output upgrade griffey would add is not worth the prospects or cash.

[RockRaines]

Exactly, and to say Rowand is even close to this guy defensively is a joke. Rowand does not get half the jump Junior gets. It is fine to be a homer but don't make such ridiculous statements such as Rowand is a better defensive CF than Junior. That is just nuts.

Are you kidding me? Apparently you went back in time 10 years. Griffey is terrible compared to A-row is every defensive way. Jr doesnt get half the jumps A-row gets and takes much worse routes to the ball. To even make the impression that we are being home team biased is a joke. Griffey is only in center because they dont have anyone else to play and they pay him for it. Horrible horrible horrible to even say that.

[JDsDirtySox]

This is a joke. Griffey is nowhere near where Rowand is right now in speed, athleticism, and strength. And he hasnt been for the past 5 years. Since Griffey has been in Cincinnatti, he has played 145 games, 111 games, 70, 53, and 83 games. Most of the games missed due to major injuries to his legs. He is fragile, and knows he cannot run full speed without blowing out a hamstring again and it shows. He doesnt make gold glove catches out there anymore, he barely can lay out for a fly ball anymore.

 

When Griffey was in Seattle, sure there is no comparison. But right now Rowand is by far the superior fielder, and I dont expect that to change.

 

http://www.basketballdraft.com/2004/scorec...fense.outfield/

In 2001, Junior suffered a hamstring injury during spring training that limited him to a handful of at-bats early in the regular season and shelved him completely until June, Torn Right Patellar Tendon(2002), Torn Right Hamstring(2004), Dislocated Right Shoulder(2003)

 

After four years with the Reds, Griffey had played in only 58% of his team's games, and hit no higher than .286.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=4305

Lets stop living in the past.  Griffey cant play a full season anymore, and cant make it to october healthy, rendering him useless to the White Sox.

 

 

Have You Seen Griffey play this season?

Griffey is having a very good year.

 

I am sure you have seen Rowand play this season. What exactly has Rowand done this year to make him "Aaron Almighty" in your eyes.

[RockRaines]

Have You Seen Griffey play this season?

Griffey is having a very good year.

 

I am sure you have seen Rowand play this season.  What exactly has Rowand done this year to make him "Aaron Almighty" in your eyes.

Griffey is hitting better than Rowand, but it worse on defense. You are willing to sacrafice the only thing that is making this team good? We can go back to having zero defense and hitting hr's if thats what you like. Then you can see the pretty fireworks.

 

Secondly, Griffey is not coming here. We dont need him, we have a clubhouse and defensive cornerstone in his position and already have too many OF'ers. He is paid too much and there are more likely suitors for him. This discussion is dead and pointless. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

[daa84]

Griffey is hitting better than Rowand, but it worse on defense.  You are willing to sacrafice the only thing that is making this team good?  We can go back to having zero defense and hitting hr's if thats what you like.  Then you can see the pretty fireworks.

 

Secondly, Griffey is not coming here.  We dont need him, we have a clubhouse and defensive cornerstone in his position and already have too many OF'ers.  He is paid too much and there are more likely suitors for him.  This discussion is dead and pointless.  I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

"a simple wrong would have done just fine"

[RockRaines]

"a simple wrong would have done just fine"

nice

[Dick Allen]

Rowand is hitting .307 after the All Star break over his career. Griffey usually doesn't play after the break. Replacing Rowand with Griffey is crazy talk. I wouldn't mind Griffey as a DH next season if Thomas isn't back.

[VAfan]

These are the 3 deals I would try to make after the All-Star break.

 

1. Schmidt-Vizquel from the Giants for Contreras, Uribe, Brian Anderson, and SF's choice of 1 among Gload/Munoz/Diaz and one among Takatsu/Bajenaru/Vizcaino.

 

2. Eddie Guardado from the Mariners for Damaso Marte and whomever SF doesn't choose in the first deal. I'd be open to substituting other names, but not Sweeney, Young or BMac.

 

3. Aubrey Huff from Tampa Bay for 3-4 prospects, but not Sweeney, Young or BMac. I'm not sure what would interest them. Joe Borchard? Ross Gload? Vizcaino? Starting pitchers? If Huff is going to walk, I can't imagine they can get that much for him.

 

Our starting rotation would have 4 plus pitchers: Buehrle, Garcia, Garland and Schmidt.

 

Our bullpen would have 4 plus pitchers: Hermanson, Politte, Guardado, and Cotts. I'd have Jenks fill Takatsu's or Vizcaino's role depending on who went. And in the playoffs, El Duque would go here. (I'd carry only 10 pitchers, and bring Harris back for his speed.)

 

We would have added 3B insurance for Crede's back. Huff could play 20 games or more at 3B and another 15 at 1B giving both Crede and Konerko a break and us another lefty bat for our lineup.

 

And Vizquel would give us yet another lefty bat, a lot fewer outs at the bottom of the lineup, and could also cover the #1 or #2 lineup slots when we rest Pods or Iguchi.

 

Our lineup could then have 5 solid lefties -- Pods, Vizquel, Everett, Huff, and AJ -- instead of the 3 we have now. And we'd still have Harris and/or Perez on the bench.

 

I don't think any of these are pie-in-the-sky trade ideas, but if you think SF, Seattle, and TB could realistically demand more, then I'd be willing to increase our cost as long as we protect most of our front line prospects.

[GoodAsGould]

For those of you all saying Griffey cant play defense this year, have you guys actually watched him at all more than once or twice if at all? His defense is still good and he also still makes those diving catches.... Rowand might be a little bit better but its not a real drop off.

 

Ok but anyways since getting Griffey is a pipe dream anyways ill continue the dream and tell you what we do.

 

Griffey with his contract wont cost 2 much so give up an average prospect or whatevr it takes. Than trade Konerko and B-Mac9or who ever) to Arizona for Javier Vazquez.

 

Batting Order:

 

LF:Scott Podsenick

2B:Tadahito Iguchi

DH:Frank Thomas

CF:Ken Griffey

1B:Jermaine Dye

RF:Aaron Rowand

C:AJ Pieryznski

3B:Joe Crede

SS:Juan Uribe

 

Starting Rotation:

1:Buehrle

2:Freddy G

3:Vazquez

4:Garland

5:Contreras

 

Bullepen:

Hermanson

Politte

Cotts

Marte

El Duque

Shingo

 

Bench:

Ross Gload

Pablo Ozuna

Crazy Carl

Chris Widger

Timo Perez