ZoomSlowik Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 01:32 AM) The Marlins would want a SP back. I don't see your point. The Marlins would be getting a pitching prospect in either proposed deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) I don't see your point. The Marlins would be getting a pitching prospect in either proposed deal. I was speaking regarding SSH's proposal. The Marlins consider themselves a team in contention for the NL East every year now. If they get rid of Beckett, they'd want a decent MLB-ready SP in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) I was speaking regarding SSH's proposal. The Marlins consider themselves a team in contention for the NL East every year now. If they get rid of Beckett, they'd want a decent MLB-ready SP in return. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> According to the original trade rumor, the Marlins were asking the Rangers for either John Danks or Thomas Diamond. Both of those guys are still prospects, not MLB-ready starting pitchers. We wouldn't send the Marlins Brandon McCarthy but we could still send them a starting pitching prospect like Gio Gonzalez. Edited November 20, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 03:05 AM) According to the original trade rumor, the Marlins were asking the Rangers for either John Danks or Thomas Diamond. Both of those guys are still prospects, not MLB-ready starting pitchers. We wouldn't send the Marlins Brandon McCarthy but we could still send them a starting pitching prospect like Gio Gonzalez. But, from what I've read, Florida wanted a 3rd team in the deal. Maybe they wanted a pitcher better (ie. more ready) than Danks or Diamond. Edited November 20, 2005 by knightni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) But, from what I've read, Florida wanted a 3rd team in the deal. Maybe they wanted a pitcher better (ie. more ready) than Danks or Diamond. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> According to this article, the holdup in the trade is that the Rangers don't want to give up John Danks or Thomas Diamond in the trade, even though the Marlins want one of them. The Rangers would rather ship Adrian Gonzalez to another team for a starting pitching prospect to send to the Marlins. It makes sense too. The Rangers need pitching way more than they need offense so they value Danks and Diamond a lot more than Adrian Gonzalez. Edited November 20, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 05:59 AM) I wonder if the Sox could be involved in this trade? http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...rlins_1120.html Marlins get Hank Blalock, Damaso Marte, Aaron Rowand, & a pitching prospect from the White Sox Rangers get Josh Beckett & Mike Lowell White Sox get Adrian Gonzalez & Juan Pierre I like Gonzalez but Rowand wouldn't be part of this trade. Marte and a good pitching prospect could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 05:41 PM) Here's the thing, if they went through with this in the last two years they would have lost Pavano, Burnett and Beckett. I wouldn't consider either of those 3 aces and they all seem to have injury problems, however when they were in there they were productive. All the sudden they go from having a very solid rotation to having Dontrelle and a bunch of youngins in there. The Marlins are pretty much screwed this season if they go through with that deal...now if they're just trying to rebuild then that's a whole different story. How long are the Marlins going to rely on potential with these pitchers though? Before the 2003 World Series, the Marlins rotation wasnt Dontrelle and a bunch of youngins, it was just a bunch of youngins. They waited for Burnett to get over the hump and pitch the way he could, and he could never do it with any sort of consistency. Beckett was a world beater in 03, but now 2 years later his career is still spotty and inconsistent. Brad Penny had arm problems and was shipped out for a quality catcher. I think that the Marlins just got to the point with the rotation where they had to cut bait(pun intended), and start over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 08:03 AM) How long are the Marlins going to rely on potential with these pitchers though? Before the 2003 World Series, the Marlins rotation wasnt Dontrelle and a bunch of youngins, it was just a bunch of youngins. They waited for Burnett to get over the hump and pitch the way he could, and he could never do it with any sort of consistency. Beckett was a world beater in 03, but now 2 years later his career is still spotty and inconsistent. Brad Penny had arm problems and was shipped out for a quality catcher. I think that the Marlins just got to the point with the rotation where they had to cut bait(pun intended), and start over. That's fine and a fair point, they're just not going to win this year if that happens, that's what I'm saying. Now, if they don't expect to win this year and want to rebuild for the future then to be honest I have no problem with this deal if they land Diamond or Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 11:25 AM) I like Gonzalez but Rowand wouldn't be part of this trade. Marte and a good pitching prospect could work. We're not going to get Pierre and Gonzalez for Marte and a pitching prospect. That would be a massive steal. The Marlins wanted Wang and a prospect for Pierre alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...de.39e1038.html Rangers sweeten the deal for Beckett Texas offers Danks or Diamond in pitch While the Rangers, according to a club source, inched forward Sunday and agreed to include one of their top two pitching prospects along with third baseman Hank Blalock in a deal for Beckett and Mike Lowell, the Marlins were also considering an offer from Boston. A major league source said the Marlins were weighing the two offers. The Rangers, according to a club source, hope to have the situation resolved by today. Otherwise, they will turn their attention back to free agency. "It doesn't benefit anyone for me to comment on trade speculation," said Rangers GM Jon Daniels. On Saturday, Rangers sources said if the team included left-hander John Danks, the club's top pick in 2003, a deal could be struck by the end of the weekend. The Rangers were not willing to go that far on Saturday, but had reconsidered Sunday. The Rangers are now willing to give Florida its choice of Danks or 2004 No. 1 pick Thomas Diamond. The Red Sox are the lone remaining obstacle. Boston is reportedly offering shortstop prospect Hanley Ramirez and one of its own pitching prospects, either right-hander Anibal Sanchez or left-hander Jon Lester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I wonder who is making this offer for the Red Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) I wonder who is making this offer for the Red Sox. Yeah, I always thought Ramirez was untouchable over there. Maybe not now, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakyusox Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 09:11 PM) Say this trade pulls off e.g Danks is included. Florida's rotation next season could look like this; Willis Vargas Olson Moehler Valdez Shows how badly they need that new stadium though, and how Beinfest has a LOT of work to do. Hello I'm new to this site. Is this where we can bash the Cubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 QUOTE(yakyusox @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 12:19 PM) Hello I'm new to this site. Is this where we can bash the Cubs? You can bash the cubs if you want but we tend to talk more about the sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 05:45 AM) Yeah, I always thought Ramirez was untouchable over there. Maybe not now, perhaps. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think Yas' point was who is offering this trade considering Boston doesn't have a GM. yakyu, you can bash the Cubs here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Red Sox and "mystery" team take over lead: http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1334519 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 10:44 PM) Red Sox and "mystery" team take over lead: http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1334519 Anyone guess who the mystery team is? Off the top of my head, I think it would be the Dodgers. They done blockbuster deals before and IIRC, they have a terrific farm system. They also have a new GM who could be looking to make a big splash early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb Marlins, Rangers set deadline for deal A source familiar with the negotiations says Rangers executives worked diligently on Sunday, trying to agree on a key Minor League prospect believed to be the holdup in getting the trade completed. The Rangers are shopping All-Star third baseman Hank Blalock and Minor League pitchers John Danks or Thomas Diamond for Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell. The two clubs set a 48-hour deadline Sunday to work out a deal before Tuesday. It's unclear if that deadline is set in stone. One reason for the delay on Sunday was that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, who is in Europe, was not easily accessible. This is a unique trade because it is being negotiated by the owners of both clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) Red Sox and "mystery" team take over lead: http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1334519 LOL, what does your Marlins intern buddy have to say about this? Doesnt sound like your typical Miami Post retraction now, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDsDirtySox Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Josh Beckett is headed to Boston. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2232211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Good move for Boston. They needed an ace-quality pitcher and now they have one. Lowell is an extreme flyball pull hitter so he could have a big comeback next season hitting flyballs over the monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) Good move for Boston. They needed an ace-quality pitcher and now they have one. Lowell is an extreme flyball pull hitter so he could have a big comeback next season hitting flyballs over the monster. The Sox didn't give up anything other than prospects, but both I'm not sure if Beckett is all he's really cracked up to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Wedge @ Nov 21, 2005 -> 07:29 PM) The Sox didn't give up anything other than prospects, but both I'm not sure if Beckett is all he's really cracked up to be. All he has to be is good for a few weeks in October like he was in 2003 and he will be good enough. Outside of his blister issues, he has the makings of a shutdown pitcher in the playoffs. His stuff is nasty and can be overpowering. He has done it before unlike wood and others. Beckett is only 26 years old also. Who would you rather face in the playoffs, Bloody Sock,Wakefield, Clement, Wells or Beckett. I think Beckett would be the last guy you want to face out of the 5 in a short series. Edited November 22, 2005 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Man, that sucks that it looks like he's going to Boston now. He's a much bigger threat there than in Texas. If nothing else their top 3 have some pretty good stuff, although Schilling, Beckett, and Clement all have some issues. Here's hoping they produce about as well as the Cubs' group. How the hell did they get a potential ace pitcher and a starting 3B for two god damn prospects?! I know the answer is that they ate Lowell's contract, but damn that sucks. And they call the Yankees the Evil Empire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Boston still has a lot of work to do. Definitely a good trade here...but even with Beckett their rotation is still a mess as well as their bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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