SSH2005 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The Underground tells me it's $5M coming to the Sox from Arizona, which IMO is why the Dbacks landed Chris Young. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who is The Underground? Is he a new wrestler in the WWF? That sounds good though. The Yankees had originally sent the Diamondbacks $6 million to help pay for Vazquez's contract so we are getting almost all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowninginflame Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:49 AM) If he turns out to be Mike Cameron, fine. Mike Cameron was never that great anyway. I'm sorry, but Chris Young is no big loss to me. Yes, he is talented, but there are talented outfielders all over the place. I'm probably in the minority here, but I honestly believe that people get too hooked on prospects around here. I completely agree, prospects are just that, they're not proven whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Lets all hope Brian Anderson is as good as promised. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am with you here totally. I would've rather parted with Anderson than Young. But again, I am just a fan and they appear to really like Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:50 AM) I agree. Chris Young, from all accounts, has all-star potential, and that can't be said for most of these other "prospects" we have traded away over the last couple of years. At the same time, I really think this is a smaller piece of a bigger puzzle and will be a good move in the long run. Wasn't Jeremy Reed supposed to be a HOF player by now? I mean it seemed like it if you talk to most "knowledgeable" Sox fans(not saying you). If Chris Young turns into Mike Cameron, it won't bother me much at all. If he turns into a Magglio Ordonez with Mike Cameron defense, then I'll say we lost the trade depending on what Vazquez does. Kenny has won it all, he went to sleep, and decided the next morning he liked it so much he wanted to do it all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I'm not a big fan of this trade--yet. It will depend on the follow-up deal or deals which are sure to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:52 AM) I don't think you can really call them the same. McCarthy uses a 4-seamer much more often than Buehrle and it probably averages about 4 more mph than Buehrle's. As a starting pitcher McCarthy puts more strain on his arm. As a guy who used to throw around,(I say throw because I wasn't great with location), a 4 seam doesn't put strain on your arm unless your mechanics are whacked ala Kerry Wood. That's why even little leaguers are allowed to throw is as opposed to a curve. From what I've seen, McCarthy has good mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I love this trade. And I predict this board will come to appreciate Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:52 AM) Include the playoffs. Also, stick McCarthy in AAA if you don't want to "mess" with him. You want a better example, look at Pedro Martinez. His rookie year he made two starts and 63 appearences out of the bullpen. You act as if moving a rookie to the bullpen is going to jack him as a starter forever. I don't think it will jack him forever. Just doesn't make sense to halt the development process for a whole year just because we're running low on arms in the pen and a starter might get injured at some point. He shouldn't have to be working long relief one month then on a whim be a starter and go back and forth. For every all-star stating pitcher you show me that made appearances out of the bullpen, I will give you someone who didn't. Roger Clemens to match your Pedro Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Am I the only one afraid of what our bullpen will look like next season? Hermy was great before his back gave him fits, but even if his back is ok this season should we expect the same from him?? Then Politte, I am not sure of his 2nd half numbers, but he got saved quite a few times and yet again another great year from a marginal reliever. Can Jenks handle the job? I am not worried about Cotts. Vizcaino was good in the 2nd half, hes gone. No Marte, while he was bad he could still come back. I hope KW has a plan, which I know he does I just hope it works. Our bullpen is looking a little off at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:53 AM) Who is The Underground? Is he a new wrestler in the WWF? That sounds good though. The Yankees had originally sent the Diamondbacks $6 million to help pay for Vazquez's contract so we are getting almost all of that. The Yanks gave the D-Backs $9 million, or $3 million per year, so there is $6 million left, which the D-Backs are supposed to give $5 million to the Sox. So they get to pocket $1 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 (edited) I love this trade. And I predict this board will come to appreciate Vazquez. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think Cooper will turn him around some but I think he will be similar to Garcia, he will be great on the road but struggle at the Cell. That ain't bad though. Edited December 14, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Curious here ... The White Sox and Diamondbacks website and mlb.com make no mention of Vizcaino. They say El Duque and Chris Young ... Just saying ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I'm not sure I care as much about McCarthy's "Development" as I do about the fact that I think he can win a ton of games for us next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:59 AM) I don't think it will jack him forever. Just doesn't make sense to halt the development process for a whole year just because we're running low on arms in the pen and a starter might get injured at some point. He shouldn't have to be working long relief one month then on a whim be a starter and go back and forth. For every all-star stating pitcher you show me that made appearances out of the bullpen, I will give you someone who didn't. Roger Clemens to match your Pedro Martinez. Curt Schilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Curious here ... The White Sox and Diamondbacks website and mlb.com make no mention of Vizcaino. They say El Duque and Chris Young ... Just saying ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The article at the MLB.com sites is from early this morning. The latest outside sources have Vizcaino going to Arizona in the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 A few random thoughts that occured while reading the last few pages of this thread. If Jon Garland is so easy to replace with a FA pitcher after 2006, why don't we just sign Jon Garland? Roger Clemens - Pedro Martinez. He was using Martinez as an example that you don't mess up a guy by putting him in the pen. No one claimed you mess up a guy by putting him in the rotation, so throwing Clemens name out there is pointless. JimH and Qiuckman have their s*** together. I sat through the Ron Schuler years waiting for all the super prospects come up and save the Sox. The thing that saved the Sox was Kenny Williams replacing Ron Schuler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:54 AM) Wasn't Jeremy Reed supposed to be a HOF player by now? I mean it seemed like it if you talk to most "knowledgeable" Sox fans(not saying you). If Chris Young turns into Mike Cameron, it won't bother me much at all. If he turns into a Magglio Ordonez with Mike Cameron defense, then I'll say we lost the trade depending on what Vazquez does. Kenny has won it all, he went to sleep, and decided the next morning he liked it so much he wanted to do it all over again. Prospects around here are like a backup QB in football. Everybody wants to see them, and when they come in, everybody waits for the next guy. Why were the Sox so stacked with outfield talent? Cause it ain't that difficult to come by. Unless Young was the bonafide, can't miss, superstar in the making that I've never heard him described as outside of here, I have absolutely no problem giving him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:04 PM) Curt Schilling. Smoltz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:54 AM) Wasn't Jeremy Reed supposed to be a HOF player by now? I mean it seemed like it if you talk to most "knowledgeable" Sox fans(not saying you). If Chris Young turns into Mike Cameron, it won't bother me much at all. If he turns into a Magglio Ordonez with Mike Cameron defense, then I'll say we lost the trade depending on what Vazquez does. Kenny has won it all, he went to sleep, and decided the next morning he liked it so much he wanted to do it all over again. He wont ever be the hitter that Maggs was, but he is alot better of a player than Reed was. I would have rather traded Anderson instead of young, but its too late now. Im just worried about our bullpen at this point. We have a closer with a screw in his arm, one lefty, A guy with a messed up back, and Polite. Bullpen strength is neccessary for this team to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:04 PM) Curt Schilling. Mike Mussina. Seriously, which team has been the best at developing young arms the past few years? Oakland. Look how many starts from the bullpen that Mulder, Zito, Harden, and Blanton have logged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:06 AM) Prospects around here are like a backup QB in football. Everybody wants to see them, and when they come in, everybody waits for the next guy. Unless Young was the bonafide, can't miss, superstar in the making that I've never heard him described as outside of here, I have absolutely no problem giving him up. From espn BA chat (outside of here) Deege (Champaign): Aaron, who do you see starting in center for the White Sox next season between Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson? SportsNation Aaron Fitt: I'm as big a Jerry Owens fan as you'll find, and his year at Birmingham in 2005 was very encouraging, particularly after he skipped a level. But that job will belong to Anderson next year -- at least until Chris Young takes it away in 2007 or '08. Chris Young is a legitimate stud in waiting -- he's got all the tools and tremendous makeup to boot. Owens probably profiles as a solid fourth OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoIL Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:54 AM) Wasn't Jeremy Reed supposed to be a HOF player by now? I mean it seemed like it if you talk to most "knowledgeable" Sox fans(not saying you). If Chris Young turns into Mike Cameron, it won't bother me much at all. If he turns into a Magglio Ordonez with Mike Cameron defense, then I'll say we lost the trade depending on what Vazquez does. Kenny has won it all, he went to sleep, and decided the next morning he liked it so much he wanted to do it all over again. I see Reed is being mentioned in trade rumors now. Looks like Seattle doesn't think he's the second coming. I'm not sure what to think of this trade yet, but I do trust Kenny. I agree wholeheartedly that Williams wants to win it all over again. Hell, so do I! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:10 PM) From espn BA chat (outside of here) Deege (Champaign): Aaron, who do you see starting in center for the White Sox next season between Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson? SportsNation Aaron Fitt: I'm as big a Jerry Owens fan as you'll find, and his year at Birmingham in 2005 was very encouraging, particularly after he skipped a level. But that job will belong to Anderson next year -- at least until Chris Young takes it away in 2007 or '08. Chris Young is a legitimate stud in waiting -- he's got all the tools and tremendous makeup to boot. Owens probably profiles as a solid fourth OF. Yup. Joe Borchard was a legitimate stud too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:08 AM) He wont ever be the hitter that Maggs was, but he is alot better of a player than Reed was. I would have rather traded Anderson instead of young, but its too late now. Im just worried about our bullpen at this point. We have a closer with a screw in his arm, one lefty, A guy with a messed up back, and Polite. Bullpen strength is neccessary for this team to win. Funny how Jenks goes to being a beast to all of a sudden being minimized to being a guy with a screw in his arm. I'm pretty damn sure you didn't want Marte here as I was a vast minority. I'll give you Hermy. Politte is good. When you have guys that could go deep(as Ozzie proved last year) into ballgames, that makes your bullpen better. We added a horse to the pitching staff. As it currently stands, we also have a long reliever finally. Anyone we bring in will almost surely have a better season then they did last year because of the defense we have and because of the fact that they'll get more than proper rest with the horses on the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:10 AM) From espn BA chat (outside of here) Deege (Champaign): Aaron, who do you see starting in center for the White Sox next season between Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson? SportsNation Aaron Fitt: I'm as big a Jerry Owens fan as you'll find, and his year at Birmingham in 2005 was very encouraging, particularly after he skipped a level. But that job will belong to Anderson next year -- at least until Chris Young takes it away in 2007 or '08. Chris Young is a legitimate stud in waiting -- he's got all the tools and tremendous makeup to boot. Owens probably profiles as a solid fourth OF. Owens is potentially the best of those 3, I agree. Which is why this deal went down. It probably doesn't go down without the best guy we have. The thing I keep coming back to is this...Anderson, Owens, Sweeney, Young. That's 4 outfielders. We can only keep 3, especially if Konerko and Thome bogart the DH slot. 1 of them had to go. Is this organziation still extremely high on Sweeney? I've heard some people mention Ordonez's name when discussing his development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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