Not a surprise, not a time to panic, but what happened to "grinde

[AirScott]

See my sig.

See Jermaine Dye dropping a routine fly ball in Tuesday's loss vs. the Royals.

[Drew]

the Sox are like the Lakers from early this decade, taking the games they want to seriously. I saw a graphic that said we're the best in the MLB or AL (can't remember which, I think MLB) vs. .500+ opponents. I was discussing this early today, and I think if we make the playoffs, we have a great chance of winning it all again, because of our lineup and bullpen (which is more reliable, but not as good as the 2005 version).

 

 

That's fine and dandy if the season ended today. But if we don't stop dropping games we should win, we'll be playing golf instead of baseball come October.

[AirScott]

That's fine and dandy if the season ended today. But if we don't stop dropping games we should win, we'll be playing golf instead of baseball come October.

well I'm saying that's how it seems, but when you're paid to play baseball for a living, your concentration should be there all 162 games.

[Milkman delivers]

You know, after watching this team for 120 some odd games, it's just so obvious what they are. They ave VERY talented (best team on paper in baseball IMO), but they just don't care all the time. Now this isn't Ozzie's fault, I know I like to jump him, but he can't make players care. You watch the games against Detroit, and we cared BIG TIME. Our batters had an approach every time, our pitchers grinded out every pitch, our defense did the best it could, and hey, we won!! We play the Royals, and we are 9-6 against them. 9-6 against the Royals, 9-3 against the Tigers. That's not a matter of talent, or the manager, or whatever else, it's just a fact that we only think our effort is worth it against the top teams.

 

Now will this team make the playoffs?? To be honest with you, I still think it will. I think we'll end up caring just enough to get that wild card spot and get in. And also, to be honest, this team is actually better than last years team. The difference is we seem fat and happy with just playing when we want to and doing just enough to try and get into the playoffs, and that is a PROBLEM. Even if we make the playoffs, we aren't going to do a damn thing once we get there, unless there is some sort of change of attitude in that clubhouse.

 

And the scary part about that is Ozzie, nor Kenny, nor Jerry, nor any of us have a damn thing we can do. It's all up to the players, they can either give a damn or they can't, and I hope they choose the former, because there is enough time for us to be a World Series Champion team yet again. However time is simply running out here. It's not about talent, or schedules, or pitching matchups....because we're good enough. It's about showing up every day and giving everything possible in order to acheive greatness. I will watch every game, and root these guys on, and I think they are good enough....but I don't think they have the "it", the heart, the hunger to do it again.

 

That's all I got for this rant, hopefully the boys pick up the effort and focus EVERY GAME....because to be honest, that is really all that's left for us to do, and if we can do it from here on out, we can repeat October glory. I just don't have faith we'll do it until next year, when we aren't the champs, and we have a chip on our shoulder. Maybe then things will click (after all, we have almost everybody back, and you know Kenny will do what he can to improve the team). But hey, I hope I'm wrong and that light clicks on THIS YEAR!! GO SOX!

 

It's not Ozzie's fault that he can't motivate his team? Is that what you're saying?

 

Ozzie's JOB is to motivate this team. Some managers are motivators, some are tacticians. Ozzie is clearly not the latter. If he can't motivate his team, which I guess isn't part of his job, then he should be fired.

[whitesoxfan101]

It's not Ozzie's fault that he can't motivate his team? Is that what you're saying?

 

Ozzie's JOB is to motivate this team. Some managers are motivators, some are tacticians. Ozzie is clearly not the latter. If he can't motivate his team, which I guess isn't part of his job, then he should be fired.

 

I'm not a big fan of Ozzie as a manager overall obviously, but at this point, through 120 plus games, in mid August, in the heart of a pennant chase....these guys should not need motivation. This isn't April against the Mariners or something, by now these guys should know how good they could be and how big every last game is. But they don't, and that is sad.

[chitownsportsfan]

Jim Thome changed the character of this team. Not knocking the guy, but it is what it is, for better or worse.

 

He should be batting fourth, however. Instead of adding Thome to last year's team, it seems the Sox have changed their whole approach centered around Thome in the third spot. No stealing, sacraficing, hit and running, etc. in the first inning like last year. "We don't want to take the bat out of Thome's hands, you know."

 

The starting pitching has not come through this year either.

 

Another f***ing small ball post? You'd think leading the majors in RS would be enough to f***ing convince people that the way to score runs is to get on base and hit home runs and doubles.

 

The problem has been pitching, it's been the problem all year. The offense IS THE BEST IN BASEBALL!!!

 

The problem is not the offense, it's not a lack of "small ball".

 

The problem is that MB, JV, and to a lesser extent FG, JC, and JG have all s*** the bed this year. Add Neal Cotts and Pollitte to that list as well.

[BobDylan]

I never thought I'd see the day where White Sox fans turned into greedy East Coast fans. They're 24 games over .500, they have a 2 game lead in the Wild Card...maybe it ain't the pretty 15 game cushion they supplied last year, but christ, this is the Chicago White Sox, not the New York f***ing Yankees. 2005 was a dream, and they call it a dream for a reason -- it ain't supposed to happen.

 

The last time the Sox supplied us fans with any sort of winning even remotely close to this was 1993-94 (f***ing strike). It's just beyond me how anyone, ANYONE, can sit back and question the heart of a team coming off a World Series Championship. Not only do none of us have any semblence of what kind of effort they are putting onto the field -- I'd bet a good chunk of change and my house that it's close to every ounce -- but I'll reiterate over again that they're the DEFENDING WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS. 1917. 1917!

 

I understand criticizing the team for underachieving and blasting s***ty pitching and poor at bats. But questioning heart? With talk like that I'd sooner think I was a Yankees fan.

 

(Let's go get Albert Pujols and fix this s*** quick.)

[southsider2k5]

The funny part is that I remember all of the fans pre2005 who used to always say that the Sox need to do everything they can to just win ONE World Series, and how they would never care again if they did it.

[BobDylan]

The funny part is that I remember all of the fans pre2005 who used to always say that the Sox need to do everything they can to just win ONE World Series, and how they would never care again if they did it.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[RockRaines]

I'm not a big fan of Ozzie as a manager overall obviously, but at this point, through 120 plus games, in mid August, in the heart of a pennant chase....these guys should not need motivation. This isn't April against the Mariners or something, by now these guys should know how good they could be and how big every last game is. But they don't, and that is sad.

Yeah, who WOULD be a fan of a manager who came into this city and brought us a WS in only his second year. I mean, GOD!!!

[BobDylan]

Yeah, who WOULD be a fan of a manager who came into this city and brought us a WS in only his second year. I mean, GOD!!!

 

While we're at it, f*** Mike Ditka too!

Edited August 18, 2006 by BobDylan

[kapkomet]

This thread shows how hypocritical some folks can be.

[RockRaines]

While we're at it, f*** Mike Ditka too!

And Phil Jackson's ass.

[whitesoxfan101]

Another f***ing small ball post? You'd think leading the majors in RS would be enough to f***ing convince people that the way to score runs is to get on base and hit home runs and doubles.

 

The problem has been pitching, it's been the problem all year. The offense IS THE BEST IN BASEBALL!!!

 

The problem is not the offense, it's not a lack of "small ball".

 

The problem is that MB, JV, and to a lesser extent FG, JC, and JG have all s*** the bed this year. Add Neal Cotts and Pollitte to that list as well.

 

A FISHING MEN.

 

The funny part is that I remember all of the fans pre2005 who used to always say that the Sox need to do everything they can to just win ONE World Series, and how they would never care again if they did it.

 

Your 100 percent correct. However, now that we got 1, we're getting greedy. That's how it goes I guess after you win 1 though, especially when your team is good enough the next year to win another.

[Dick Allen]

I don't understand all the clamouring for "smallball". The offense is the best in the league. The pitching has been horrible. The team ERA is almost the same as Cleveland's. Put last year's offense with this year's pitching and you would have a team that would be very lucky to be .500. You can't play small ball when you need to score 7 or 8 runs a night in order to win a game, although I would like to see some more stolen base attempts.

[fathom]

I don't understand all the clamouring for "smallball". The offense is the best in the league. The pitching has been horrible. The team ERA is almost the same as Cleveland's. Put last year's offense with this year's pitching and you would have a team that would be very lucky to be .500. You can't play small ball when you need to score 7 or 8 runs a night in order to win a game, although I would like to see some more stolen base attempts.

 

I'd like to see more hit-and-runs. Simply put, we're a terrible team at getting jumps and stealing bases. Not only are our guys being thrown out at an alarming rate, but they're not even close to being safe. Smallball was magnified last year due to our offense being medicore for a large portion of the season. This year, we have a team that can outslug the opposition, and I hate giving up outs prior to our monster 3-4-5-Crede coming up to the plate. With our pitchers performing like they have this year, playing for one run prior to the 6th inning is a mistake.

[southsider2k5]

I don't understand all the clamouring for "smallball". The offense is the best in the league. The pitching has been horrible. The team ERA is almost the same as Cleveland's. Put last year's offense with this year's pitching and you would have a team that would be very lucky to be .500. You can't play small ball when you need to score 7 or 8 runs a night in order to win a game, although I would like to see some more stolen base attempts.

 

The flip side of that is if you put last years pitching with this years offense...

 

:drools

[Dick Allen]

The flip side of that is if you put last years pitching with this years offense...

 

:drools

They probably would be at least as many games up on Detroit as they are now behind. They would be a lock at winning 110 games. Maybe the pitchers can turn it on. It would really be interesting if the pitching ever got on a real roll.

 

I'd like to see more hit-and-runs. Simply put, we're a terrible team at getting jumps and stealing bases. Not only are our guys being thrown out at an alarming rate, but they're not even close to being safe. Smallball was magnified last year due to our offense being medicore for a large portion of the season. This year, we have a team that can outslug the opposition, and I hate giving up outs prior to our monster 3-4-5-Crede coming up to the plate. With our pitchers performing like they have this year, playing for one run prior to the 6th inning is a mistake.

More specifically I'd like to see Pods try to steal a little more. If for some reason he can't, put him on the DL because he doesn't bring too much else to the table.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Dick Allen

[Milkman delivers]

The flip side of that is if you put last years pitching with this years offense...

 

:drools

 

You're looking at a record-breaking season. Mariners and Cubs would be in trouble.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Another f***ing small ball post? You'd think leading the majors in RS would be enough to f***ing convince people that the way to score runs is to get on base and hit home runs and doubles.

 

The problem has been pitching, it's been the problem all year. The offense IS THE BEST IN BASEBALL!!!

 

The problem is not the offense, it's not a lack of "small ball".

 

The problem is that MB, JV, and to a lesser extent FG, JC, and JG have all s*** the bed this year. Add Neal Cotts and Pollitte to that list as well.

 

Never said anything about "small ball". You have to play baseball. Let the home runs happen. You still have to play smart baseball. Swinging for the fences everytime up isn't smart. When your big hitters are not hitting home runs you still have to be able to make things happen.

 

One of the big keys to the Sox' success last season and the reason they got off to such a tremendous start was because they would score first and the pitchers would take the mound with a lead right from the beginning of the game. Hence, my point about the style of play in the first inning.

 

Learn to f***in' read. It gets old having people take things out of context. My original post was in response to the question, "What happened to grinder baseball?" Read the post again and try to comprehend.......oh, just forget it.

 

BTW I mentioned the pitching being the problem.

Edited August 18, 2006 by South Side Fireworks Man

[Colorado Sox Fan]

Another f***ing small ball post? You'd think leading the majors in RS would be enough to f***ing convince people that the way to score runs is to get on base and hit home runs and doubles.

 

The problem has been pitching, it's been the problem all year. The offense IS THE BEST IN BASEBALL!!!

 

The problem is not the offense, it's not a lack of "small ball".

 

The problem is that MB, JV, and to a lesser extent FG, JC, and JG have all s*** the bed this year. Add Neal Cotts and Pollitte to that list as well.

 

Yeah, small ball worked last year because our pitchers were holding opposition to 2-3 runs. This year, we'd be slaughtered if we tried to play for one run. I do think the boys are swinging for the fences a bit too much at times, but the problem this year is squarely on the starters or lack thereof, in addition to inconsistent bullpen that has allowed some games to get out of hand.