BUMPED::::::Toby Hall Possibly out for the season

[witesoxfan]

Another possible rumor on MLBTradeRumors...TIFWIW.

 

Teams are scouting Ryan Doumit and Humberto Cota as possible backup catcher options. One club with a new opening: the White Sox, who unfortunately may have lost Toby Hall for the season with a labrum tear. D'oh. KW has dealt with Littlefield a couple of times before, on the Todd Ritchie and Rob Mackowiak deals. Littlefield is one of few GMs who has gotten the best of Williams in a deal.

 

one deal...he got the better of one deal.

 

Matt Guerrier was a real keep for Pittsburgh, and while the Sox did have to suffer through Mackowiak's mediocre defense in CF, he is a better value than a left handed reliever coming off a season in which he had a 1.70+ WHIP.

[Vance Law]

It's a shame if we lost him for the season, but the marginal effect on the team is rather insignificant.

Bad case scenario- we end up with around 20 fewer total bases for the entire season than we would have had with Hall. And that's if we don't go out and pick up a catcher.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'd almost rather see Donny Lucy get a shot than G Molina. He's way more green and only got a few AB's this spring, but he's also way more talented, has some speed, hit .357 vs lefties in AA last year, and plays good D.

 

And yeah, I'm a little biased, since he's one of my AAP's. But that doesn't change the fact that he seems to have much more potential than the other names flying around.

[beck72]

On Chicago Baseball tonight, they were talking that supposedly LA Angels wants to trade Jose Molina. It was mentioned that Kenny would probably see what could be worked out....

I remember seeing Jose Molina's name come up in an ESPN article of bats that were supposedly available via trade.

[kapkomet]

Which part do you disagree with? We've argued at length about whether or not it was Ozzie's fault, and I can see how people would agree/disagree with it. If you're arguing about it not being a big blow to the team, then I would have to severely disagree with you.

I replied to page one in a 10 page thread (and now I'm replying to page 11 in a 21 page thread) so my timing sucks.

 

It's something that was a freak thing. And yes, it's a hit to the team. But it certainly wasn't Ozzie's "fault".

[southsider2k5]

If you really want to look at it, all of spring training is "meaningless". None of the games or ABs count for a damned thing. Hall could have been out their catching and had some kid with a number in the 80's decide to try to leave a lasting impression and go Torii Hunter on Toby at home plate. Stuff happens. I know Ozzie was thinking that in the oddities of a season, he would like to have the option of having another right handed 1B so that if he wanted to bat someoone else for Thome against a tough lefty, he could also give Pauly a psuedo day off by putting him at DH.

 

Heck no one is talking about Uribe about blowing out his knee on a routine pop up to the OF at all. He could have just as easily slipped and blew out his ACL and instead he twisted his ankle. Injuries are a part of the game, and it just sucks that it had to be Hall.

[supernuke]

I heard that AJ was upset about losing ABs so he convinced Ozzie that Hall would be more versitile if he could play 1B. He was then heard offering $100 to anyone on the opposing team who could make Hall dive resulting in an injury. It is clearly AJ's fault.

[Maverick0984]

I still think him playing 1st wasn't that big of deal...a professional baseball player should be able to play 1st base and not break themselves. They have at least seen others do it for 10-15 years of them playing on all levels.

 

This coming from someone who *did* play for upwards of 10 years. I was an OF but sure as hell wouldn't have fell over and snapped a leg off if I went and played SS or something.

 

It is really just a freak accident that in no way could have been predicted, blaming Ozzie is somewhat ignorant. Hinesight is 20/20 you know.

[Middle Buffalo]

Hinesight is 20/20 you know.

I'm pretty sure Wade Boggs has 20/10 hindsight.

[Maverick0984]

I'm pretty sure Wade Boggs has 20/10 hindsight.

 

So he can accurately criticize things that have already happened better than the rest of us? heh

[NorthSideSox72]

So he can accurately criticize things that have already happened better than the rest of us? heh

In that case, I'm pretty sure everyone who posts on this site thinks they have 20/10 hindsight.

 

[Maverick0984]

In that case, I'm pretty sure everyone who posts on this site thinks they have 20/10 hindsight.

 

 

heh, that's what I was getting at

[Milkman delivers]

I still think him playing 1st wasn't that big of deal...a professional baseball player should be able to play 1st base and not break themselves. They have at least seen others do it for 10-15 years of them playing on all levels.

 

This coming from someone who *did* play for upwards of 10 years. I was an OF but sure as hell wouldn't have fell over and snapped a leg off if I went and played SS or something.

 

It is really just a freak accident that in no way could have been predicted, blaming Ozzie is somewhat ignorant. Hinesight is 20/20 you know.

 

So, like a left fielder should be able to come into a game and close it out? I mean, he's seen others do it for 10-15 years on all these different levels.

[Maverick0984]

So, like a left fielder should be able to come into a game and close it out? I mean, he's seen others do it for 10-15 years on all these different levels.

 

Well for one, you are taking the extreme. Catcher to 1B isn't quite as drastic.

 

Also, I said nothing about excelling at the position, just being able to not break yourself...c'mon now, don't put words in my mouth.

[Controlled Chaos]

Well for one, you are taking the extreme. Catcher to 1B isn't quite as drastic.

 

Also, I said nothing about excelling at the position, just being able to not break yourself...c'mon now, don't put words in my mouth.

Actually, I think swapping catcher to 1st or any other position for that matter, is probably more physically different then any other position swap. A catcher playing anything other than catcher is going to be more of a drastic change.

[StrangeSox]

Well for one, you are taking the extreme. Catcher to 1B isn't quite as drastic.

 

Also, I said nothing about excelling at the position, just being able to not break yourself...c'mon now, don't put words in my mouth.

 

A LF wouldn't be more likely to f-up his arm or shoulder trying to pitch than a pitcher?

[SadChiSoxFanOptimist]

Agree 100%.

 

 

 

My family and I were at Tucson Electric watching the Sox be thoroughly outplayed by the Rangers -- really outplayed -- when I say Hall go to first and I though, Oh no -- what's up with this???

 

He made an ok move to his right to pick up an easy grounder and fumbled it a bit, then rolled over on the ground like a beeched whale. 3 mins later, he gone.

 

BTW, Pods make a helluva catch in that game, then late missed a cutoff man.

 

Anderson played some in right.

 

The high point for us was my daughter getting a signature on my World Series hat from Garland, who groused, but signed and Razor Shines who messed around alot with us on the third base line.

[vandy125]

Actually, I think swapping catcher to 1st or any other position for that matter, is probably more physically different then any other position swap. A catcher playing anything other than catcher is going to be more of a drastic change.

Come on man. That is a bit of a drastic statement. How about we throw a comparison out there for you?

 

1B - Stands and catches the ball from an infielder occasionally

C - Sits and catches the ball from a pitcher every pitch

 

1B - Occasionally fields grounders

C - Also occasionally fields grounders (depends on the pitcher)

 

1B - Catches line drives

C - Also catches line drives, but they come at him on every pitch

 

1B - Catches pop-ups

C - Also catches pop-ups, but with a mask and other equipment in the way.

 

Anything I am missing?

Edited March 27, 2007 by vandy125

[fathom]

Come on man. That is a bit of a drastic statement. How about we throw a comparison out there for you?

 

1B - Stands and catches the ball from an infielder occasionally

C - Sits and catches the ball from a pitcher every pitch

 

1B - Occasionally fields grounders

C - Also occasionally fields grounders (depends on the pitcher)

 

1B - Catches line drives

C - Also catches line drives, but they come at him on every pitch

 

1B - Catches pop-ups

C - Also catches pop-ups, but with a mask and other equipment in the way.

 

Anything I am missing?

 

You conveniently left out that a first baseman has to dive for a ball, and a catcher doesn't. Diving is definitely a skill that you get better at with experience.

[fathom]

Good to hear....he just earned massive grinder points.

[NorthSideSox72]

As long as he can still make his throws reasonably well, that's awesome. Good to hear he's willing to gut it out. In this case, I definitely feel good about using the term "grinder".

[fathom]

As long as he can still make his throws reasonably well, that's awesome. Good to hear he's willing to gut it out. In this case, I definitely feel good about using the term "grinder".

 

If he can't throw, then just let him catch for Buehrle or Contreras. Rarely does a catcher matter with Buehrle, as he'll either pick the guy off, the runner will get a massive jump....or the ball will go over the fence. With Contreras on the mound, you could have the catcher be 50 feet from 2nd base, and it wouldn't matter. This is good news though.

[Maverick0984]

Actually, I think swapping catcher to 1st or any other position for that matter, is probably more physically different then any other position swap. A catcher playing anything other than catcher is going to be more of a drastic change.

 

That might be true, but this "change" is to a much much easier position, so it supports my argument that they should be able to handle it, thanks.

 

A LF wouldn't be more likely to f-up his arm or shoulder trying to pitch than a pitcher?

 

Not necessarily, that is entirely the point, to play within yourself and to have enough knowledge to not go and break yourself stupidly.

 

The responsibility is on the player to not be an idiot. I'm not asking Pods to go pitch, I'm asking a baseball player to play a baseball position as best he can knowing he isn't a regular there. That being said, I'm glad he's trying the rehab .

Edited March 27, 2007 by Maverick0984

[Flash Tizzle]

If Hall were to return to the White Sox early we couldn't get away with only him and Pierzysnki. There would have to be an additional catcher on the roster, which takes away from another area of the ballclub.

 

Honestly, I don't like the idea. Just think about the circumstances warranting his usuage -- opposing lefthanders, and not catching Contreras. Considering our problems with throwing out runners, with Hall's shoulder we'll be destroyed on the basepaths. It wouldn't be pretty.

 

Also, remember Hall damaged his right shoulder -- which will effect the follow through motion of a swing. If problems continue to linger leading up to a possible return, he'll only posses limited power.

 

I just don't believe Hall at any around 50% is greater than Molina/Gonzalez at 100%. I have no problem with him attempting to rehabilitate the shoulder joint, but if he's not capable of performing basic catching duties or holding himself offensively it'll be no use.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[NorthSideSox72]

If Hall were to return to the White Sox early we couldn't get away with only him and Pierzysnki. There would have to be an additional catcher on the roster, which takes away from another area of the ballclub.

 

Honestly, I don't like the idea. Just think about the circumstances warranting his usuage -- opposing lefthanders, and not catching Contreras. Considering our problems with throwing out runners, with Hall's shoulder we'll be destroyed on the basepaths. It wouldn't be pretty.

 

Also, remember Hall damaged his right shoulder -- which will effect the follow through motion of a swing. If problems continue to linger leading up to a possible return, he'll only posses limited power.

 

I just don't believe Hall at any around 50% is greater than Molina/Gonzalez at 100%. I have no problem with him attempting to rehabilitate the shoulder joint, but if he's not capable of performing basic catching duties or holding himself offensively it'll be no use.

I think that's the assumption being made here - that he'd only come back if he's 80-90%. If not, there is no point in him coming back this year at all. If the Docs said rehab only gets you to 50%, I'd bet KW, Ozzie and Herm would all tell him not to bother and have the surgery.