Kenny's Interesting Quote

[southsider2k5]

Not totally sure, but I think it's against the rules for a player to have ownership of any percentage of a team. Perhaps someone here can give chapter and verse on this.

 

What about if it is held in trust until the player retires?

[Dick Allen]

Did you really just compare this team with that texas team?

72-90 will do that. My point is, bringing in ARod doesn't make the White Sox contenders all by itself. This team was lucky it didn't finish behind KC. Buy the KW propaganda about perfect storm BS, its coming from the same mouth that said last season was playoff fatigue and he wanted to keep the core intact because they won 90 and in his words "couldn't play any worse." That and his $30 million a year price tag would certainly mean a lot of current salary would have to go.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

72-90 will do that. My point is, bringing in ARod doesn't make the White Sox contenders all by itself. This team was lucky it didn't finish behind KC. Buy the KW propaganda about perfect storm BS, its coming from the same mouth that said last season was playoff fatigue and he wanted to keep the core intact because they won 90 and in his words "couldn't play any worse." That and his $30 million a year price tag would certainly mean a lot of current salary would have to go.

2 points.

 

Just because Boras requests $30 million a year doesn't mean that even the Cubs will be stupid enough to offer that.

 

And Garland + Contreras + Uribe is about $26 million next year.

[Dick Allen]

2 points.

 

Just because Boras requests $30 million a year doesn't mean that even the Cubs will be stupid enough to offer that.

 

And Garland + Contreras + Uribe is about $26 million next year.

Danks, Floyd, a rookie, Buehle and Vazquez isn't a rotation you can bank on winning.

 

The White Sox have to make up more than 20 games in the standings. ARod may be the best baseball player who ever lived, but he can't do that all by himself.

 

Getting ARod and dumping a couple of pitchers would be the exact opposite of a the move KW was lauded for on this board, the CLee move. Why weaken yourselves on the mound for a few more homeruns and put that kind of financial commitment to one player, tying your hands for the duration of his contract?

Edited October 1, 2007 by Dick Allen

[LVSoxFan]

I agree that one man does not a team make but OMG would that be electrifying if we ended up with him. We sure could use his bat.

 

I think they'd make that money back in A-Rod jersey/merch sales alone, LOL.

 

AND if it were long-term we could wait for A-Rod to break Bonds' record while in a Sox uniform.

 

But I just don't see this happening. I could see the Cubs doing it but not JR.

[RockRaines]

Danks, Floyd, a rookie, Buehle and Vazquez isn't a rotation you can bank on winning.

 

The White Sox have to make up more than 20 games in the standings. ARod may be the best baseball player who ever lived, but he can't do that all by himself.

 

Getting ARod and dumping a couple of pitchers would be the exact opposite of a the move KW was lauded for on this board, the CLee move. Why weaken yourselves on the mound for a few more homeruns and put that kind of financial commitment to one player, tying your hands for the duration of his contract?

that rotation should make anyone sweat. we need to bring back some pitching talent if we trade all of those players. The rotation and a lead off hitter should be top priorities.

[29andPoplar]

Williams had another interesting quote in the Southtown today. Speaking of Jose Contrereas: "He's a horse, and to a large degree, a lot of his problems were tipping (his pitches) and letting the hitters know what was coming," Williams said. "It took us a while to get that understood and corrected. It also took him a while to get back to an arm slot that is more conducive to getting outs and having better command. So, yeah, I believe Jose Contreras is going to have one heck of a year next year."

 

OK. So he thinks Contreras will have a good year next year. Maybe that's blowing smoke, maybe it isn't. My question is this though, apparantly opposition hitters figured out Jose was tipping his pitches, but Jose and the Sox staff took "a while" to correct it?

 

When he got here, he had trouble tipping pitches, now he has (had?) the problem again. I hope for their sake they finally have it resolved once and for all, and can prevent any reoccurance.

 

[RockRaines]

Williams had another interesting quote in the Southtown today. Speaking of Jose Contrereas: "He's a horse, and to a large degree, a lot of his problems were tipping (his pitches) and letting the hitters know what was coming," Williams said. "It took us a while to get that understood and corrected. It also took him a while to get back to an arm slot that is more conducive to getting outs and having better command. So, yeah, I believe Jose Contreras is going to have one heck of a year next year."

 

OK. So he thinks Contreras will have a good year next year. Maybe that's blowing smoke, maybe it isn't. My question is this though, apparantly opposition hitters figured out Jose was tipping his pitches, but Jose and the Sox staff took "a while" to correct it?

 

When he got here, he had trouble tipping pitches, now he has (had?) the problem again. I hope for their sake they finally have it resolved once and for all, and can prevent any reoccurance.

Is there anyone on this board that didnt realize he was tipping his pitches. How about the fact that he always threw sidearm to righties and therefor eliminated his forkball. Or the fact that he had no command of the outside corner anymore.

[kapkomet]

The arm slot/angle is the most important part. Personally, I think he was hurting and when they gave him that (more or less) month off, he was able to keep the angle that makes his stuff move, finally, after he came back.

 

[CWSGuy406]

The tipping of pitches stuff always tickles me a bit. In the past couple weeks the Mets said something similar on why John Maine had been so bad in the second half -- he, too, was tipping his pitches. Always happens when someone starts to suck -- never can it be attributed to the ebb-and-flow of a season.

 

Or, in Jose's case, maybe it's just a 36 year-old (?) with a bad back who's having age catch up to him. His forkball is nowhere near it was during his streak of dominance and I doubt he'll ever sustain a 94 MPH fastball for a full-season. His sidearm slider also used to have a lot more bite -- now it just sort of rolls up there. I don't see that as tipping pitches -- I see as crappy (and deteriorating) 'stuff'.

[Rowand44]

That's KW trying to up his value right there, guarantee that.

[Chisoxfn]

This is a good thread with lots of good comments. I agree with DickAllen on Uribe although I will add he is extremely frustrating to me. Unless they can swing a trade for the guys he mentioned or some super stud prospect, he may be the best option. He is a good fielder but the regression at the plate should cause all of them to take a good long look at what they're doing. Particularly, Uribe himself. I am also disturbed Guillen commenting about Uribe staying in shape. Uribe needs to be a pro and not get fat every year.

 

Richar, I believe he will improve and I did see some defensive improvement in the last two weeks of the year. He gives 100%. I am not certain he has much to prove in AAA, by the same token his numbers are not overwhelming. This will be a case of seeing what's out there and determining if they can get someone clearly better and at what cost.

 

Williams brought up the Carlos Lee trade again Saturday. Interesting. He told the reporters "you guys know how we do business" and mentioned the "fit" and trading a big name for a bunch of smaller pieces and then said no one is untouchable unless they have a no trade clause. Hmmmm.

If Kenny was implementing anything it would have to be Paulie. Dye and Thome have protection and Buehrle/Vaz aren't gonna go anywhere. Jenks has value but no major salary so he won't be going.

 

I do think the Sox could move Paulie, free up payroll all while adding a few real solid young players (that could turn into great players) but you obviously risk taking some PR heat as Paulie is one of the faces of the franchise. However, it should also be noted that I've never heard the Sox question Paulie "fitting" in as he's really liked by Ozzie/Kenny (but if they got blown away I think they'd do the deal).

 

[Chisoxfn]

Well according the rumors that were putting him on the northside... He wants an ownership share of the team he goes to. According to the 2007 Forbes numbers the Sox are valued at $381 million. If they could come up with a small minority share, you could knock off $10-20 million, depending on how big you are talking. Plus a guy like Rodriguez pays for himself at the turnstyle. The Sox know this. Think about how many Arod jersies would get sold?

 

I doubt it will happen, but then again knowing Kenny's history, and JRs business savvy, maybe it isn't that crazy afterall...

It is 100% against major league rules to even offer something like that in a major league contract. And if an owner were even stupid enough to try to do it hush/hush it would eventually come out and league may just force the owner into selling or severly force the franchise (remember, MLB forced Marge Schott to sell).

[Chisoxfn]

Is there anyone on this board that didnt realize he was tipping his pitches. How about the fact that he always threw sidearm to righties and therefor eliminated his forkball. Or the fact that he had no command of the outside corner anymore.

Tipping pitches doesn't explain why he had half the life on his forkball and for most of the season about 5-7 MPH off his fastball.

[Dick Allen]

If Kenny was implementing anything it would have to be Paulie. Dye and Thome have protection and Buehrle/Vaz aren't gonna go anywhere. Jenks has value but no major salary so he won't be going.

 

I do think the Sox could move Paulie, free up payroll all while adding a few real solid young players (that could turn into great players) but you obviously risk taking some PR heat as Paulie is one of the faces of the franchise. However, it should also be noted that I've never heard the Sox question Paulie "fitting" in as he's really liked by Ozzie/Kenny (but if they got blown away I think they'd do the deal).

 

KW also has to be careful, because if he trades someone who took a "hometown discount" to play for the Sox, he's going to have a hard time signing someone to something like that again without a ton of no trade protection. He better make sure its the deal of the century. What puzzles me is why the White Sox refuse to give blanket no trade protection, but have no problem trading for someone who has it.

 

[DBAHO]

His down year defensively still netted him second in the AL in fielding pct. at SS according to the USCF scoreboard,and he has lots of range. Uribe is going to have a big year some year offensively I just know it. The problem is I have no idea when, I was hoping 2007, and if he's just his usual self he doesn't get on base enough and if you are going to have Richar and Fields and to a certain extent Crede in the line-up, it could be really taxing on the offense. The question probably will be does the upgrade on his replacement's OBP compared to his justify the almost certain downgrade in defense, not to mention cost. I'm known as a negative on this board, but 2 guys I have always stuck with are Contreras and Uribe. Right now, I would trade Contreras if some team ate the entire contract, nothing less, and I would only cut Uribe loose if it was a true upgrade at the position. Someone like Renteria or Furcal or Tejada. No way I would replace him with Vizquel or Eckstein.

Uribe's RZR decreased from .841 in 2006 to .798 in 2007, that was his worst number in the 3 seasons he's been here. His OPS has decreased to .678 in 2007.

 

The funny thing is though, Eckstein's RZR also decreased from .841 in 2006 to .781 in 2007, and yet he's the best FA out there. And I mean people complain about Vizquel's offense no doubt (.613 OPS, but a better OBP than Uribe), but his defense was top notch this season, a RZR of .888.

 

So I guess my point is, although Vizquel is getting older and older, if he could be signed cheaply, for say 2M for a season, I would rather pay him that, than to pay Juan Uribe 5M for a season, because Vizquel based on the numbers will give you better defense, and a little better on base percentage, which is what we need at the bottom of the lineup, compared to the all or nothing approach from Uribe. My concern with Uribe is that he's decreased both offensively over the past 3 seasons, and defensively this season, and yet we want to spend 5M on him next season. Is he going to turn it around? Well don't we ask this same question every off-season, and yet we're back at square one? Sign Vizquel for a season, trade for a young SS who can contribute from 2009, and let Uribe go, that's an option. It gives us another 2-3M that could be used on a reliever possibly.

 

Yes Uribe is younger than Vizquel, but is he ever going to get any better? We hear about the potential etc. I don't think we're ever going to see it, certainly nothing close to what he put up in the 1st half of 2004 for us.

[Gregory Pratt]

KW also has to be careful, because if he trades someone who took a "hometown discount" to play for the Sox, he's going to have a hard time signing someone to something like that again without a ton of no trade protection. He better make sure its the deal of the century. What puzzles me is why the White Sox refuse to give blanket no trade protection, but have no problem trading for someone who has it.

 

The Braves do that too except they flatly refuse to include NTC. But with regard to why they would have no prob. trading for a guy like that but not giving it out -- in that situation, you can't control it but you know the player's good and so you take a calculated risk that you won't want to trade him or have to.