2007-08 NBA Thread

[Brian]

He's a double - double player at best.

 

Which isn't a bad thing if you put the right talent around him.

[whitesoxfan101]

Okafor is kind of a poor man's version of a healthy Elton Brand, which is a legit modestly above average NBA starting center mind you, but not much else.

 

Random, but I was out watching the late game last night, and afterwards, Al Harrington said "I just wanted to come out and play well. Didn't want to be called missing in action like Tyrus Thomas like I have been so far this season". OUCH!!!!

Edited December 15, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[ZoomSlowik]

Okafor is a pretty solid player. He's a well above average rebounder and a solid defender. He's also a decent scorer in the post (though not great). He's been good for about 14-10 his whole career with improved shooting percentages the last two seasons. A lot of teams could really use him, if you add him to the Bulls right now they're in much better shape.

 

However, he's not a franchise-level player, so turning down that extension is pretty stupid, especially given his past injury issues.

[whitesoxfan101]

Wow, shocking. The Celtics play a real team, at home, and lose to Detroit. Yeah the Celtics are good, but I'm not even convinced they are actually better than Detroit yet, and can beat them in a playoff series. Maybe people will shut up about a Celtic team that has just taken advantage of an easy schedule so far.

 

Oh, and nice win Bulls. 10/10/5 for Aaron Gray? Wow, and Tyrus looks better too.

[Balta1701]

Wow, shocking. The Celtics play a real team, at home, and lose to Detroit. Yeah the Celtics are good, but I'm not even convinced they are actually better than Detroit yet, and can beat them in a playoff series. Maybe people will shut up about a Celtic team that has just taken advantage of an easy schedule so far.

 

Oh, and nice win Bulls. 10/10/5 for Aaron Gray? Wow, and Tyrus looks better too.

A decent part of me would be really happy right now to see a few games to see what a rotation of Tyrus, Gray, Noah, and Smith a little bit off the bench would look like.

[whitesoxfan101]

A decent part of me would be really happy right now to see a few games to see what a rotation of Tyrus, Gray, Noah, and Smith a little bit off the bench would look like.

 

Big Ben injured his foot last night, so you might get your wish here. Bulls play Friday and Saturday after a day off tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben sits out those games. I like Gray backing up Smith though, he seems like a nice guy to bring off the bench.

[Balta1701]

Big Ben injured his foot last night, so you might get your wish here. Bulls play Friday and Saturday after a day off tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben sits out those games. I like Gray backing up Smith though, he seems like a nice guy to bring off the bench.

Starting, I'd understand Smith, but I'm crazy enough to want Noah and Tyrus starting right now.

[whitesoxfan101]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...=Celtics-071219

 

REALLY good J.A. Adande article on the misconception of the Celtics. People seem to forget that although the Celtics were the "white" team in the 1980's, they did more for blacks in the NBA in the mid to late 20th century than every other NBA team combined. Almost every racial barrier was broken by the Celtics, yet all people do is think of the "white" 80's teams with Bird and McHale and that's a damn shame.

[whitesoxfan101]

Oh, and Andres Nocioni is BRUTAL. His contract, although not Ben Wallace bad, is a joke. I know I'll get ripped on in here since the typical white fan loves Nocioni because he yells a lot, but the man is nothing more than an undersized forward who tries hard. He doesn't go to the basket enough, instead falling in love with his 3 point shot, of which he shoots 33.3 percent. He has the worst plus/minus of any player on the team this year (the Bulls especially got killed when he was on the floor last night and tonight), he's a poor defender (despite all the charges he takes flopping), his lack of size and quickness make him an overall liability, and he's had more turnovers than assists his whole career

 

/rant

 

And while your at it, get Ben Gordon's ass out of here. A 6'2 shooting guard with as many turnovers as assists? He also never gets to the free throw line, and his mediocre 42 percent shot for his career is now 38 percent. And that is for a guy whom is an offensive specialist, as everybody knows he's one of the worst guards in the league on defense. Obviously add Ben Wallace to that list too. I'm tired of these damn guys with college experience that try hard and are good soliders, give me TALENT.

 

/rant 2.0

 

Years of college among NBA top 10 scorers:

 

LeBron: 0

Kobe: 0

Iverson: 2

Boozer: 3

Richard Jefferson: 3

Carmelo: 1

McGrady: 0

Dwight Howard: 0

Caron Butler: 2

Baron Davis: 2

 

No correlation. None at all, and it'd be the same story in other major categories. In fact, it seems better to NOT have much or any college experience, hell if your good, you wouldn't waste your time playing there. So stop giving me this "we draft character guys with college experience" stuff Pax, it's as big a myth as the one that your a good GM. BRING A STAR TO CHICAGO PAX!!

 

/rant 3.0

 

Ok, now I feel better. This damn team drives me nuts.

Edited December 20, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[knightni]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1219/...celtics_580.jpg

 

The Boston Celtics: The Big 3 make it so easy a Caveman can play for them.

Edited December 21, 2007 by knightni

[WHarris1]

Oh, and Andres Nocioni is BRUTAL. His contract, although not Ben Wallace bad, is a joke. I know I'll get ripped on in here since the typical white fan loves Nocioni because he yells a lot, but the man is nothing more than an undersized forward who tries hard. He doesn't go to the basket enough, instead falling in love with his 3 point shot, of which he shoots 33.3 percent. He has the worst plus/minus of any player on the team this year (the Bulls especially got killed when he was on the floor last night and tonight), he's a poor defender (despite all the charges he takes flopping), his lack of size and quickness make him an overall liability, and he's had more turnovers than assists his whole career

I never wanna say anything about Noc because like you said...everyone loves him...but holy f*** am I sick of him.

[GoodAsGould]

I never wanna say anything about Noc because like you said...everyone loves him...but holy f*** am I sick of him.

 

You know he started off playing well I though... but this recent stretch of games he has been very brutal. I just wish Skiles would have a shorter leash on him or something.

[Steve9347]

You know he started off playing well I though... but this recent stretch of games he has been very brutal. I just wish Skiles would have a shorter leash on him or something.

No matter how well he started off, he still plays somewhat dirty and I'll always hate that contract.

[GoodAsGould]

No matter how well he started off, he still plays somewhat dirty and I'll always hate that contract.

 

Say what you will about his level of play or his contract.... but I dont consider Nocioni a dirty player at all. He is just not a sissy boy that runs away from people... I never knew that taking a charge from guys bigger than you now made you dirty.

[Kyyle23]

Say what you will about his level of play or his contract.... but I dont consider Nocioni a dirty player at all. He is just not a sissy boy that runs away from people... I never knew that taking a charge from guys bigger than you now made you dirty.

 

Plus most NBA players play dirty to a degree. Jordans famous last shot(with the bulls of course) was a pushoff, as well as his shot over Craig Ehlo against Cleveland. Shaq just bullies people over, Rodman used to grab people if he was trying for a rebound and make it look like they were pushing off when it was the opposite, Kobe likes to flat out punch people in the face(Mike Bibby) or flail his arms around after a shot and poke people in the eye(the entire NBA).

 

I like Nocioni's hustle, I dont think he plays more dirty than the rest of the NBA, I just dont like that he feels the need to shoot every time he touches the ball. When he is hot, feed him the ball. But when he is cold, dear lord, dont let him touch it or its a 3 point shot with half the team running to catch up on the floor and no one under the basket.

[fathom]

I'm hoping Paxson and/or Skiles get fired for this mess. Ben Wallace continues to be the worst player in the NBA with regards to production vs contract.

 

Thanks Paxson!

[Brian]

Don't care what anyone says, Skiles did NOT deserve to be fired. The team has gotten better every year he has been head coach. How about Hinrich? Gordon? These guys have all regressed and it isn't Skiles fault. Who are they going to get that is better? Include Phil Jackson in the Kobe deal?

[The Critic]

Don't care what anyone says, Skiles did NOT deserve to be fired. The team has gotten better every year he has been head coach. How about Hinrich? Gordon? These guys have all regressed and it isn't Skiles fault. Who are they going to get that is better? Include Phil Jackson in the Kobe deal?

Like I said in the other thread, fair or not (and I don't think it is fair), this is what happens.

You can't fire the team, so you fire the coach.

The minute he was hired, the clock started on his firing.

 

[CWSGuy406]

Bringing back the Nocioni topic from last page, Matt from Blog-a-Bull hated the signing the moment it became official. That was just way too much money for a decent (not great) bench player -- especially one who doesn't project to start at any point in the contract (or beyond).

[whitesoxfan101]

Look, this team is no better than what it did the last 3 years (make the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs, and that's it). Skiles and Paxson took the team from point A (a joke) to point B (respectable), but the problem is they can't get to point C. Now obviously it's Paxson's job to get this team the personnel it needs to get to point C (a legit NBA title contender), because they do not have it right now. However, for this team, which is basically the same as last year and still young outside of Ben Wallace, who was bad last year too, to fall off like this is not acceptable. It's been clear in a lot of games that the team quit on Skiles, and the coach HAS to be fired when that happens, period. I am very surprised it happened this soon, but it was obvious it would happen this season, teams just tune Skiles out pretty fast. Hopefully the new coach will, unlike Skiles, have a clue how to distribute minutes and develop front line players, most noteably giving Tyrus and Noah some real minutes. All I know is Paxson better figure this out quick, because as my rant last page points out, he's doing a lousy job too. This is the 2nd coach he's fired, and if whoever the next permanent coach is doesn't work out, Pax could be next on the chopping block.

Edited December 24, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[danman31]

I'm going to agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure the team quit on Skiles, but it's not looking good. The losing wasn't Skiles fault, but a new coach could fix it. I never liked Skiles, but you couldn't argue with the results until this year. Hopefully the Bulls can get a good coach instead of an interim, this team should still make the playoffs.

[whitesoxfan101]

I would think a trade will come, question is, who's it for?

[DBAHO]

Is it possible that other teams in the East got better as well, while the Bulls went down?

 

Obviously Gordon, Hinrich, Deng and Wallace aren't playing on the same level as last season.

 

And you've got teams such as Orlando (well not lately, Jameer Nelson for Hinrich please), Atlanta, Charlotte, Boston who have been playing better than they did last season.

[DBAHO]

I would think a trade will come, question is, who's it for?

Gasol would be my guess still. He doesn't fit in Memphis's up-tempo system, and isn't giving 100% right now playing for a losing team.

 

A change of scenery would probably benefit him.

 

Gasol + Navarro for Gordon, Thomas and Nocioni (and maybe work some draft picks in there?)

[ZoomSlowik]

To combine your last two DBAHO, I don't think that the East is really THAT much better. You essentially have two teams that joined the upper tier in Boston and Orlando that are bumping everyone else down. The other differences are more minor (Atlanta and Miami essentially trading places, Indiana getting off to a decent start while the Cavs and Bulls have started slow). Those new teams at the top do have a little bit of a trickle down effect though.

 

As for trades, Pau Gasol makes a ton of sense. I agree with your general principle on the deal, if Ben or Kirk goes they have to get a guard back, and Navarro was essentially signed to try to keep Gasol happy. That solves probably their biggest problem by adding a post-scorer and gives them the flexibility to try to dump Wallace on someone. My only concern with that from the Bulls' side is that they lose two of their 4 remotely competent scorers from a team that already sucks offensively. Sure, Gasol double teams will make things easier for Deng and Hinrich, that's two big outside threats gone that could have had an impact. I know Navarro is a gunner, but he's not quite as dangerous.

 

McGrady would be another one that's rumored and would be solid depending on the price, maybe if you get lucky something like Gordon/Wallace/Thomas. My only concern with that would be that an already suspect frontcourt would be down to 3 even remotely capable players and lose their highest ceiling option.