Capn12 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Tigers #1,3,7,11 Prospects it took for that deal.....and 5 pitchers? or was it 4, either way, ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(G&T @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) I really doubt the Sox had any chance, Willis or not. Yeah I guess not. 5% chance all the way. Didn't pan out, shouldn't be a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Kenny can always sign Miggy a few years down the road when he is say ... 35 and a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Capn12 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:06 PM) Tigers #1,3,7,11 Prospects it took for that deal.....and 5 pitchers? or was it 4, either way, ouch. They mortgaged alot of their future to make a run in the next two years, and its a good move. I still think Cabrera hits free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I dont know how you can equate the ability to win a cy young, with a player who has a downward trend of both ERA, WHIP, and BAA and is moving to one of the best offensive divisions in baseball. In fact, Miller was better than he was last year with the league adjustments. Â Ok. You're looking at performance and numbers/facts. Totally fine with me and I can't really agree more. Â What I am trying to do is point out and defend all those "delusional" people who were insulted. Â I am more of a stathead myself but the numbers don't always reflect ability. No one doubts or should doubt whether Willis has the ability. He is still young and still has life on his pitches. No questioned he has struggled but it remains an ability thing to me. Dontrelle will probably be their 3rd starter? Less pressure, new environment, winning team, etc...all those things can wake a guy up like Dontrelle. Â It just happens to guys, Mike Lowell is a guy literally in the same situation and that kind of turned around. Even if Lowell's revival was only for this season, it still did it's job for the BoSox. If the Dtrain has a career year going into his contract season...I am pretty sure it will help the Tigers. Â 3 years ago he should've won the Cy Young. Should've or could've, really your opinion on it. 2 years ago he had a decent season. I didnt think it was great but let's not pretend it's as bad as you're leading his decling trends to be. Last season was just a giant leap and letdown. To me, guys like Jones have bad years and declining trends and we say they "pressed" too hard in the contract year. Willis does it and there is something wrong with him? Why? Because we want to convince ourselves that we have a shot in a division that we really have 0 chance in? Â That is the only part that scares me with him. We have seen him dominate before and I am not quite willing to write him totally off yet. You may be, but I am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:07 PM) They mortgaged alot of their future to make a run in the next two years, and its a good move. I still think Cabrera hits free agency. Â Oh I'm already resigned to the fact that MigCab is going the FA route after 09. No chance in hell he decides to stay in Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Who gives a s*** if Sheffield is mentioned? He's already admitted it. Mentioning him wouldn't mean s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Our prospects just aren't seen in the same light as other teams top prospects. Kenny may love Gio Gonzalez, but I think it's painfully obvious that teams would rather have top pitching prospects from other organizations. We have a few GOOD prospects. Other teams have more and better prospects to offer. Â That's the sad reality. If we're in a bidding war for a star player, and it involves minor league talent, chances are, we aren't getting that player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkfan Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 F&*(@%FFU*&&N' Tigers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:09 PM) Who gives a s*** if Sheffield is mentioned? He's already admitted it. Mentioning him wouldn't mean s***. That means that teams could make deals during the winter meetings, only to learn two weeks later that the free agent they just signed faced possible discipline by Major League Baseball for past use of banned substances. It is anticipated that the report will name names of current and former major league players who have used performance-enhancing substances including anabolic steroids and human growth hormone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(max power @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) That's what I'm saying. Hopefully one of fields or danks have huge years. I still not going to write this team off. We don't even know what we have in fields, danks, richar, quetin and possibly owens. If those guys live up to their potential, and we play well in our division we still have a chance. just remember what Jim Thome was supposed to bring to a defending WS champion. Not a knock on Jim, just things don't always work out. Still, it's a great move by Detroit and I tip my hat to them. Their pitching remains a hole, however. Their pen struggled and Bonderman seems to have hit a snag in his development. Compared to the White Sox, their definitely better on paper still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Capn12 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:08 PM) Oh I'm already resigned to the fact that MigCab is going the FA route after 09. No chance in hell he decides to stay in Detroit. Â Why? Even if he enters FA the Tigers would overpay to keep him because it would be a disaster for them to lose all their prospects and Cabrera after 2 years. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) Kenny can always sign Miggy a few years down the road when he is say ... 35 and a free agent. Or a couple years when he's in his mid 20's, and just about to enter his prime. Â Of course that's if he doesn't sign a new deal with them (which is what I'm clinging to right now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Van Dyke from the tribune just reported that the Sox werent close on cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:13 PM) Van Dyke from the tribune just reported that the Sox werent close on cabrera. Â He's got great sources. Â And re: steroids -- I just don't see the league taking all that much action or the union allowing it. Â Even without Sheffield for awhile, Detroit's offense is top-notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(G&T @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:12 AM) Why? Even if he enters FA the Tigers would overpay to keep him because it would be a disaster for them to lose all their prospects and Cabrera after 2 years. We'd have a couple of things in our favor though. Â 1 - Surely he'd put up better numbers at the Cell instead of Comerica. Would help in his HR chase of A-Rod someday. 2 - The relationship with Ozzie. The big plus for us. Â Obviously it's going to cost a lot, but I think we'll have some big salaries coming off the books then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(G&T @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:12 PM) Why? Even if he enters FA the Tigers would overpay to keep him because it would be a disaster for them to lose all their prospects and Cabrera after 2 years. How are they going to be able to afford to pay him and the rest of the team they field, with a now barren farm? Edited December 5, 2007 by max power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:14 PM) We'd have a couple of things in our favor though. 1 - Surely he'd put up better numbers at the Cell instead of Comerica. Would help in his HR chase of A-Rod someday. 2 - The relationship with Ozzie. The big plus for us.  Obviously it's going to cost a lot, but I think we'll have some big salaries coming off the books then.  2 years down the road doesn't leave me very excited, and the White Sox aren't known for getting into bidding wars.  Chances of Cabrera to the White Sox in a few years ? I'd say about 1% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 How many years were we the "best team on paper" and lost? You still have to play the games. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I'd rather play with Detriot's players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:14 PM) He's got great sources. And re: steroids -- I just don't see the league taking all that much action or the union allowing it.  Even without Sheffield for awhile, Detroit's offense is top-notch. Well, you dont see it, but ESPN does. For now I will consider them a little closer to the situation, though you ARE closer to the Eisenhower.  Van Dyke also just said we are in on Jones. I fully expect us to take a run at him tonight. Edited December 5, 2007 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Even without Sheffield for awhile, Detroit's offense is top-notch. Â and cleveland's not going anywhere and minny might just stick with johan and liriano to see how far they can go. sox and royals will be battling it out in the dark of the cellar, I fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:12 PM) Or a couple years when he's in his mid 20's, and just about to enter his prime. Of course that's if he doesn't sign a new deal with them (which is what I'm clinging to right now).  If he is a FA in two years, KW has yet to show the ability to sign a top free agent. But then again, he will have two years to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:12 PM) just remember what Jim Thome was supposed to bring to a defending WS champion. Not a knock on Jim, just things don't always work out. Still, it's a great move by Detroit and I tip my hat to them. Their pitching remains a hole, however. Their pen struggled and Bonderman seems to have hit a snag in his development. Compared to the White Sox, their definitely better on paper still. Â There were teams that were better on paper than the 2005 White Sox, too. But I seem to remember that they wont the World Series that year. Also, with Inge no longer playing 3B...there goes some REAL good defense. Let's see how he season plays out before we write any team off...except for the Pirates. We can write them off..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 06:16 PM) How many years were we the "best team on paper" and lost? You still have to play the games. Â True, but we're not even in the same ballpark talent wise with these teams (Detroit, Angels, Boston and NYY). Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 And inge just ruined any trade value Crede had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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