Ozzie calls out Javy

[NCsoxfan]

ive never seen a guy with Javy's stuff and strike out ability get less out of his stuff...

 

 

[LosMediasBlancas]

He had to try something.... Vasquez isn't gonna motivate himself. It's times like these where I really miss Freddy Garcia.

 

 

Hell yeah, this was Sweaty Freddy time!

[chw42]

Vazquez fails to grow any kind of balls again. Watch him get lit up tomorrow. If he does, Ozzie is going to have a fit and it'll be bye-bye Javy in 2009. I can just see it all happening.

 

Javy needs to stop being an arrogant idiot and realize that he messes around way too damn much. I don't know if that's his fault or the catcher's fault. But tomorrow, I don't want to see him shaking of A.J. and trying to get cute when he has the batter by the throat. The way our pitchers go about their business after getting ahead disgusts me. Outside of Buehrle, all of our pitchers nibble like a mouse with a big fat block of cheese.

Edited September 22, 2008 by chw42

[BlackBetsy]

ive never seen a guy with Javy's stuff and strike out ability get less out of his stuff...

+3. How he winds up like he does every year with his peripherals - 3/1 K/BB rate, low Opponent AVG., decent HR rate - is beyond me and smacks of "can't pitch out of the stretch / chokes with runners on."

[elrockinMT]

He had to try something.... Vasquez isn't gonna motivate himself. It's times like these where I really miss Freddy Garcia.

 

 

Freddie last start with the Tigers was a 5 inning 1 run allowed win, but I still think Javy can do the job when called on. DJ even made a similar point in the last WGN game I watched with Javy pitching and Vazquez reaching back for a bit more on his fastball to put people away. DJ said he wished Javy did that more because he has a such a dominating fastball with movement.

[BlackBetsy]

I just checked Javy in the Metrodome since he was with the White Sox. They are 1-4 with him on the mound, with the 1 victory a meaningless one after both teams had been eliminated one year ago today. Here are the boxes:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MI...200605130.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MI...200608200.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MI...200610010.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MI...200705080.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MI...200709220.shtml

 

Totals:

 

31 1/3 IP, 34 H , 18 ER , 5 BB , 31 K - 5.17 ERA

 

 

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

If you scatterplot Vazquez's ERA against the winning percentages of the teams he has been on since 2000, you will see that Javy is more comfortable on losing teams, period. I suggest that we grant him his wish and send him to a losing team for next year. (How about Javy +$10 million for John Lannan)

 

I've been saying this forever.

[fathom]

Anyone think this could be the beginning of the end of Javy's White Sox career?

[Wanne]

Hey...ya never know. Maybe this is exactly what Javy needs...to get called out and challenged. It'll go one of two ways for sure. I'm not holding my breath.

[WCSox]

can be translated to, even if I give up 11 1st inning runs and we get swept, it doesn't matter. I will still go to Puerto Rico with my family with my millions of dollars.

 

I'm not sure if that's what he meant, but it's kind of difficult to not read it that way. And it would explain why his overall ML performance falls below his talent level.

 

Javy reminds me of Manny, in the sense that oth look like they're just going through the motions half of the time. Manny's ridiculous talent makes up for it. Javy's talented, but not talented enough to get away with a Manny-like attitude.

 

[Brian]

Anyone think this could be the beginning of the end of Javy's White Sox career?

 

No.

 

I think this whole story is being blown out of proportion. Some people think Ozzie is being critical of Javy. I think he is trying to motivate him.

 

I agree that Javy pitches a lot better when there is no pressure but he was pitching well before the NY series and the 3 day rest thing is a legit reason for that.

[quickman]

Anyone think this could be the beginning of the end of Javy's White Sox career?

 

 

fathom if Ozzie is worried about Javy's intensity in a regular season game, just think about a playoff game. the intensity is not even close yet. furthermore, the whitesox seem to be putting more and more pressure on themselves, like they are scared to go to minni, rather than going to minni, with the idea that they will be the better team. this starts with ozzie, I actaully think he is scared of the twins at the dome.

 

 

[nitetrain8601]

I think New York affected him. I mean, even when he first began with New York, he was great. Anyone remember that game when he just flat out dominated us? Anyway, I think after he lost a couple of big games that year, New York fans started booing and calling him out and it turned out huge when he made his only postseason start. Then I think ever since, he just kind of threw up his arms and said, "Why should I give maximum effort?" And since then, he pitches just to pitch and not to win. He pitches because he likes the game, he doesn't seem to love it. His stuff is great, but for a pitcher, you just can't be going through the motions because all it takes is one mistake. That's why you have seen him dominate garbage teams for the most part. He has good enough stufff and they're bad enough to where he doesn't really have to pitch to give a crap. Against good teams, when he should hunker down, he pitches to them with the same "Manny-Like" attitude as he pitches to those crappy teams.

[nitetrain8601]

fathom if Ozzie is worried about Javy's intensity in a regular season game, just think about a playoff game. the intensity is not even close yet. furthermore, the whitesox seem to be putting more and more pressure on themselves, like they are scared to go to minni, rather than going to minni, with the idea that they will be the better team. this starts with ozzie, I actaully think he is scared of the twins at the dome.

 

I think Ozzie is more concerned with his White Sox. He's not afraid of the Twins, he's just afraid of us self-imploding because some of his guys are scared. AJ even addressed it kind of in today's Sun-Times.

[scenario]

If you scatterplot Vazquez's ERA against the winning percentages of the teams he has been on since 2000, you will see that Javy is more comfortable on losing teams, period.

 

LOL. There is also a correlation between feet size and pizza consumption. But that doesn't mean that if someone eats alot of pizza that they have big feet.

 

Javy's had a bad month the year he was traded to New York. And he had a bad season the year he was traded to the Sox. Besides that he played for crap teams. So... you want to connect the random dots to suggest that he doesn't have the cajones to pitch for good teams, only bad ones??

 

Nnnnnno. Don't think so.

 

I find it amazing how people twist facts to prove points they want to make.

[Chisoxfn]

Anyone think this could be the beginning of the end of Javy's White Sox career?

Not really, even with his ups and downs he gives innings and typically keeps the club in the games. Plus his contract is what I'd call affordable given his performance. The only way I could see him elsewhere is if the Sox dealt him for some significant parts.

[fathom]

Not really, even with his ups and downs he gives innings and typically keeps the club in the games. Plus his contract is what I'd call affordable given his performance. The only way I could see him elsewhere is if the Sox dealt him for some significant parts.

 

But if you have a manager openly questioning a key players ability to step up in the clutch, it just makes me think that if things go bad, they'll look in another direction this offseason. It really doesn't bother me either way they choose.

[greg775]

Hey...ya never know. Maybe this is exactly what Javy needs...to get called out and challenged. It'll go one of two ways for sure. I'm not holding my breath.

 

I know what you mean. I kind of have a sinking feeling. This team hasn't been a good road team. When's the last time we really kicked some butt against a good team on the road? For some strange reason, I don't see our guys responding to aggressive managing this season. Hope I'm wrong. I don't blame Oz for trying it though. Might as well try to light a fire rather than just see if we get the good 7 inning Javy or bad Javy.

[BearSox]

Vazquez's response tells you all you need to know about that paycheck-casher. Enjoy your retirement in Puerto Rico, you ungrateful idiot.

He said he doesn't care what the fans think. Did he ever say he doesn't care about baseball and just goes through the motions every fifth day?

 

Javy works about as hard as anyone on the team, and wants to win more then anyone else on the team. He's a true competitor, and gives it his all every start. To say he is a "paycheck-casher" and an "ungrateful idiot" is by far one of the stupidest and false statements I've seen on here.

[BearSox]

But if you have a manager openly questioning a key players ability to step up in the clutch, it just makes me think that if things go bad, they'll look in another direction this offseason. It really doesn't bother me either way they choose.

Hasn't Ozzie done that with pretty much the whole team? He calls out players all the time, how is the case any different?

[lostfan]

lol, every now and again BearSox says something that isn't outrageously ridiculous.

[BearSox]

lol, every now and again BearSox says something that isn't outrageously ridiculous.

 

I'm a sensible person with bold views and strong opinions. If you don't like, oh well, ignore me

[Milkman delivers]

He said he doesn't care what the fans think. Did he ever say he doesn't care about baseball and just goes through the motions every fifth day?

 

Javy works about as hard as anyone on the team, and wants to win more then anyone else on the team. He's a true competitor, and gives it his all every start. To say he is a "paycheck-casher" and an "ungrateful idiot" is by far one of the stupidest and false statements I've seen on here.

 

Do you have any proof of that at all?

[Dick Allen]

LOL. There is also a correlation between feet size and pizza consumption. But that doesn't mean that if someone eats alot of pizza that they have big feet.

 

Javy's had a bad month the year he was traded to New York. And he had a bad season the year he was traded to the Sox. Besides that he played for crap teams. So... you want to connect the random dots to suggest that he doesn't have the cajones to pitch for good teams, only bad ones??

 

Nnnnnno. Don't think so.

 

I find it amazing how people twist facts to prove points they want to make.

Javy has been questioned before he came to the White Sox, however the facts are :

2006 White Sox win 90, Javy below .500

2007 White Sox lose 90, Javy 15-8

2008 White Sox contending all year should win 90+, Javy below .500

 

Bad month in NY? July ERA 6.61, August ERA 7.44. September ERA 6.29. He was so brutal the second half of his season with the Yankees and then in the playoffs, he was sent packing and the Yankees thought he was injured.

 

So, for 2 years he's played with good teams in Chicago, his winning pct. is below that of his career. He played for a good team in NY and didn't get the job done. Maybe he can change some minds tonight, because pitchers making 8 figures a year should do well in big situations, not just when your playing out the string.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

Javy has been questioned before he came to the White Sox, however the facts are :

2006 White Sox win 90, Javy below .500

2007 White Sox lose 90, Javy 15-8

2008 White Sox contending all year should win 90+, Javy below .500

 

Bad month in NY? July ERA 6.61, August ERA 7.44. September ERA 6.29. He was so brutal the second half of his season with the Yankees and then in the playoffs, he was sent packing and the Yankees thought he was injured.

 

So, for 2 years he's played with good teams in Chicago, his winning pct. is below that of his career. He played for a good team in NY and didn't get the job done. Maybe he can change some minds tonight, because pitchers making 8 figures a year should do well in big situations, not just when your playing out the string.

+1

 

If it was a small sample size it would be one thing, but the guy with "Ace Stuff" has shown throughout his career that he should be on the Pirates instead of a contender. I want him to be #4 in our rotation if we make the playoffs.