He has power potential and would be moving from a dome to grass within a hitters park plus is a natural CF so it's not like we're talking about some corner OF here.

 

I think that is key, i think hell thrive here in us cell around our lineup

I totally agree with this. I like the idea of having a 4 person rotation in the outfield with some time to take at DH as well. However, I still think this could have a really negative impact on the clubhouse THIS YEAR. As for 2010 and forward, I'm all for it.

 

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Aug 8, 2009 -> 01:48 AM) *

Please don't be us, please don't be us.

 

 

I agree with this

 

 

So are you for or against the Sox getting Rios ? You seem to be covering your bases in either direction since you happen to be the one who said " I agree with this."

Edited August 8, 200916 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Wow, it really looks like it's us, huh? I won't have many direct thoughts until any move is agreed upon, and a package is put on the table, but i have trust in KW. Regardless, it looks like their will be more cost cutting measures in the following year to come for this team, if Rios is added to it.

1.5 years ago the league thought highly enough of this guy for a Lincecum/Rios swap to sound fair for both sides.

If all we have to do is pick up his contract, go for it.

1.5 years ago the league thought highly enough of this guy for a Lincecum/Rios swap to sound fair for both sides.

That one turned out to be hilarious. Nearly rivaled by the Greinke-Francouer rumors being tossed around before this year.

I think that is key, i think hell thrive here in us cell around our lineup

Totally.

 

Imagine if someone had said last year that we'd essentially make this trade:

 

Richard + Poreda + DCarter + Russell for Peavy + Rios

 

No one would have believed that. You can't even do that in video game and yet, in real life, it's actually a possibility. I could see the Jays owners going up to Ricciardi and telling him just to dump Rios since they need salary relief and failed to deal Halladay. If that happens, somebody needs to put Kenny's ass on a wanted poster because that guy is just running around committing armed robbery.

Totally.

 

Imagine if someone had said last year that we'd essentially make this trade:

 

Richard + Poreda + DCarter + Russell for Peavy + Rios

We won't be making that trade. Unless, we're sending straight cash (homey?) to the Jays, players will be involved our end.

We won't be making that trade. Unless, we're sending straight cash (homey?) to the Jays, players will be involved our end.

Then the Jays can keep paying his salary as he gets more and more expensive.

 

Remember...we don't need him. We'd like him, but we don't need him. They may need to move him, not want to move him. We're holding all the aces here.

So who gets benched?

Not CQ. Not Dye. I guess Pods?? Cut Wise and it's a Pods/Rios platoon of some kind??

Players like him?

 

First off, there aren't just a lot of "players like him" around with comparable packages of talent. Secondly, you're saying he had his peak at 26? Yeah, going to have to dispute that one and say there's ample time for improvement. Some players don't hit their prime until later. And lastly, if the Sox put in this claim they've looked at him and have seen things they think they can fix. He has power potential and would be moving from a dome to grass within a hitters park plus is a natural CF so it's not like we're talking about some corner OF here. He only plays RF because the Jays have Wells who USED to be awesome in CF, and apparently the Jays are keeping Wells there to justify his contract.

If he had such 5-tool talent, he'd show it by age 28. His best season came at age 26 when he put up a solid but not great .858 OPS / 122 OPS+ for a corner outfielder. He's healthy now and there's no reason to believe that he's going to be much better than he is now and that he tops out about where his age 26 season was. That's a solid LF er, but not a 12 million dollar per year guy when you have other players on your team (Q, Beckham, Alexi, Jenks) that you are going to have to start to pay arbitration dollars to or try to lock up long term over the next 6 years.

 

Here are the outfielders 28 or younger who are performing better than Rios right now from an OPS standpoint:

 

Braun, Upton, Kemp, Ethier, Choo, Swisher, Adam Jones, Victorino, Crawford, Granderson, Pence, Markakis, Melky Cabrera, Cody Ross, McLouth, Franklin Gutierrez, Ben Francisco, Grady Sizemore, Corey Hart, Dexter Fowler (who?), Michael Bourn, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Denard Span.

 

$12 million a year for the 24th best outfielder in the league 28 and under? And there's only 33 OF that are qualifiers and fit the age 28 and under category. Change the criteria to ages 25 to 31 - a player's prime - and Rios is 33 out of 38 among OF qualifiers.

 

Change the criteria to age 28 through 34 (the length of his contract), and he's 24th out of 25. The only guy lower on the list is Vernon Wells.

1.5 years ago the league thought highly enough of this guy for a Lincecum/Rios swap to sound fair for both sides.

At the time I thought SF should have made that deal. Lincecum is unbelievable but I still think his elbow is going to snap eventually.

I am not in favor of picking up Rios becuase of his contract, but I am concerned about Jermaine Dye. I remember last season after Quentin was hurt, he went into a bit of a slump before a strong finish, but this year, he batted only .245 in July, and has gotten off to a very slow start (.174) in August. He looks like an old man running for a fly ball in RF as well. I'm not saying bench Dye, and maybe this is just a long slump that he will come out of soon enough.....As for talk of benching Podsednik, stop that talk. He's done a great job as our leadoff hitter, and Guillen isn't about to bench him, especially on an offense that continues to be inconsistent.....Quentin in LF has shown some signs at the plate....Obviously, as a whole, this is a very bad defensive OF, and Rios would improve that, but I don't think there's an obvious spot here unless they plan on shutting down Quentin, or playing matchups everyday.

 

With Peavy on board, and now, possibly Rios, I would guess that this is our off-season, but would this move any talk of resigning Dye and Thome OR would one guy be signed for the DH spot for a season?

 

 

We won't be making that trade. Unless, we're sending straight cash (homey?) to the Jays, players will be involved our end.

 

The only reason this is news, as opposed to the other some 100 players going through waivers, is that the Jays would be likely to flat out dump him. We have all the leverage in the world here.

Looking purely at his offensive numbers -- and for ease I like to look at runs created per game -- Rios last had a good year two years ago. So, unless he rebounds, which he could -- since someone points out his BABIP is down this year and will likely bounce back -- then he is not likely to help us offensively right away.

 

However, Rios is also by all reports a better defensive player than we currently have in the OF now that Brian Anderson is gone. He's played more than enough CF to take over there and give us an upgrade, which we could certainly use.

 

Plus, at 28, Rios is on the right side of 30, so there is a very good chance he will remain productive for several years, and could still improve.

 

Seems like a good deal for the Sox if they get him for basically his contract. If the Jays want to trade, they'd have to eat some of Rios's money to get any kind of minor league player(s) in return.

 

For my money, I hope the Sox claimed him, and I hope we get him. If we did, and if we do, then I'm going to be hoping like heck that Rios starts hitting again like he did in 2007 and 2006 when he posted RC27 rates of 6.53 runs/game and 6.36 runs/game. At that level he'd be a plus offensive and defensive player.

 

 

The only reason this is news, as opposed to the other some 100 players going through waivers, is that the Jays would be likely to flat out dump him. We have all the leverage in the world here.

That’s the X-Factor here. While Riccardi is sitting a bit prettier then Kevin Towers was at the deadline, he still has a pressing need to shed payroll and fast. KW is in the catbird seat on this one.

We won't be making that trade. Unless, we're sending straight cash (homey?) to the Jays, players will be involved our end.

Nice. I applaud.

Guys, who is headed to the bench? Can he play second base?

You could give Thome, CQ, Pods, and Dye 1-2 days off each week. We wouldn't have to see the nightmare that is Pods in CF.

 

This also means that Pods won't be back next year, which is probably a good thing. He's been great this year but I don't expect him to do this two years in a row.

Guys, who is headed to the bench? Can he play second base?

 

TCQ, Pods, Dye, Thome, Rios rotation for the 3 OF + DH

If he had such 5-tool talent, he'd show it by age 28. His best season came at age 26 when he put up a solid but not great .858 OPS / 122 OPS+ for a corner outfielder. He's healthy now and there's no reason to believe that he's going to be much better than he is now and that he tops out about where his age 26 season was. That's a solid LF er, but not a 12 million dollar per year guy when you have other players on your team (Q, Beckham, Alexi, Jenks) that you are going to have to start to pay arbitration dollars to or try to lock up long term over the next 6 years.

 

Here are the outfielders 28 or younger who are performing better than Rios right now from an OPS standpoint:

 

Braun, Upton, Kemp, Ethier, Choo, Swisher, Adam Jones, Victorino, Crawford, Granderson, Pence, Markakis, Melky Cabrera, Cody Ross, McLouth, Franklin Gutierrez, Ben Francisco, Grady Sizemore, Corey Hart, Dexter Fowler (who?), Michael Bourn, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Denard Span.

 

$12 million a year for the 24th best outfielder in the league 28 and under? And there's only 33 OF that are qualifiers and fit the age 28 and under category. Change the criteria to ages 25 to 31 - a player's prime - and Rios is 33 out of 38 among OF qualifiers.

 

Change the criteria to age 28 through 34 (the length of his contract), and he's 24th out of 25. The only guy lower on the list is Vernon Wells.

Rios is a 5-tool talent and he HAS shown it. In 2007 he hit .297 (average) 24 HR, .498 SLG in a pitchers park (power), stole 17 bases with just for CS for a team that isn't known for running (run), and he can play D and throw on top of it.

 

Your list is deceptive because you're talking about his down year and a lot of the players you're mentioning are not nearly as talented all-around as Rios is. Span? Bourn? Francisco? Hart? Gutierrez? McLouth? Ross? Melky? Swisher for God sakes? I mean come on. He's a CF in RF and has more ability than any of those guys. Yes, the Uptons are better, yes Pence is a better player, so is Sizemore and possibly Fowler in the future. Ellsbury is a different kind of hitter, but very very good as well. You need to crawl out of the OPS bubble and understand that just because a player isn't producing RIGHT NOW it doesn't mean he won't produce in the future. Your list would have been like comparing Eric Byrnes in 2007 with CQ in 2007 and using it as a reason to say Byrnes is better. Rios already has shown what he can do in 2007 and he isn't so full of flaws that we can't expect anything better. He can take walks, he's aggressive, and his K rate isn't exactly Fields-like or anything. He actually makes a lot of contact. If the Sox claim him they think he's going to turn it around, and I definitely trust their judgement in that case.

This would also mean the end of Wise. As Kotsay would continue to slot in as a backup 1b/OF.

I honestly think there are plenty of ways to fit the guy in for the rest of the season, and it gives us some insurance in case Q just can't get right.

 

Then in the offseason we can settle things out and see what our options are...

This would also mean the end of Wise.

Quite frankly, no it won't.

 

I have no idea how. But no it won't.

Quite frankly, no it won't.

 

I have no idea how. But no it won't.

Carlos Quentin will be DFA because Wise can PR and be a defensive sub.

Edited August 8, 200916 yr by lostfan