Balta1701 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 04:40 PM) I think what you'll see is a sacrifice of the batting average (hit .294 last year) for more long balls. In the end, an .850 OPS out of our DH and some much needed power. My question in reply is...do we look at Vlad's numbers last year and think "This is vastly better than we'd get from Jones". I'm just not sure I do. Jones's numbers are only 10 points of OPS below Vlad. Played in less games due to injury, but he's also 2 years younger and hasn't spent time playing on the turf in Montreal The one thing I can see being a legit upgrade is a LH bat rather than a RH bat. Ozzie loves the platoon, we already know that, and there are guys on the market he can do that with. He can't do it with Vlad, and that really creates a RH heavy heart of the order unless Teahen steps up big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 03:54 PM) My question in reply is...do we look at Vlad's numbers last year and think "This is vastly better than we'd get from Jones". I'm just not sure I do. Jones's numbers are only 10 points of OPS below Vlad. Played in less games due to injury, but he's also 2 years younger and hasn't spent time playing on the turf in Montreal The one thing I can see being a legit upgrade is a LH bat rather than a RH bat. Ozzie loves the platoon, we already know that, and there are guys on the market he can do that with. He can't do it with Vlad, and that really creates a RH heavy heart of the order unless Teahen steps up big time. Jones has also been playing in the majors just as long as Guerrero has, has played in more games, and even has more plate appearances than Guerrero does (though the difference between plate appearances is minimal). I don't always believe that age is the best indicator of when a player is breaking down because the amount of wear and tear on their bodies matters a lot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 03:54 PM) My question in reply is...do we look at Vlad's numbers last year and think "This is vastly better than we'd get from Jones". I'm just not sure I do. Jones's numbers are only 10 points of OPS below Vlad. Played in less games due to injury, but he's also 2 years younger and hasn't spent time playing on the turf in Montreal The one thing I can see being a legit upgrade is a LH bat rather than a RH bat. Ozzie loves the platoon, we already know that, and there are guys on the market he can do that with. He can't do it with Vlad, and that really creates a RH heavy heart of the order unless Teahen steps up big time. But Jones hasn't had a decent season since 2006. Vlad's 2008 numbers were 303/365/521/886 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 08:11 PM) But Jones hasn't had a decent season since 2006. Vlad's 2008 numbers were 303/365/521/886 I agree with you. Andruw Jones has hit .207 combining the last 3 seasons. I don't know where people are expecting him to be the Andruw Jones who could command $15 million a year. He signed for $500k with Boras as his agent. Brian Anderson got more guaranteed cash. I wouldn't mind Vlad, although the rumor is he's Texas bound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 09:27 PM) I agree with you. Andruw Jones has hit .207 combining the last 3 seasons. I don't know where people are expecting him to be the Andruw Jones who could command $15 million a year. He signed for $500k with Boras as his agent. Brian Anderson got more guaranteed cash. I wouldn't mind Vlad, although the rumor is he's Texas bound. Is there a RH hitting OF that hasn't been rumored to be Texas bound? They're going to have an OF with Dye, Hamilton, Sheffield, Winn, and a few others if all these come true. It'll be a sight to behold, the 7 OF lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Aubrey Huff has had exactly 1 good season in the past 5, with a couple others putting up relatively mediocre numbers for offensive positions and 2 of them being pretty bad. In the last 15 years, Jim Thome has had exactly 1 bad season. He isn't the .900 OPS threat he used to be, but he's still a solid .850, with an OPS close to .900 against righties. Ozzie still has the flexibility of his bench (for that matter, Thome would never have to be in the lineup against a lefty), the Sox get great left handed power, and Thome continues playing because I really don't think he'd go anywhere else. Personally, I'm ok with Thome coming back. But, it won't happen. The Sox are not going to add a pure DH that can't play the field. I think they've made that pretty clear. They want to optimize flexibility and athleticism as much as they can. I'd be very surprised if Thome returned. Although, I like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 All I can say is it would be entirely unacceptable for the White Sox to enter 2010 with Andruw Jones slated as a starter anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 09:55 AM) Personally, I'm ok with Thome coming back. But, it won't happen. The Sox are not going to add a pure DH that can't play the field. I think they've made that pretty clear. They want to optimize flexibility and athleticism as much as they can. I'd be very surprised if Thome returned. Although, I like him. If they insist it's someone that must be able to play the field, then either Huff or Delgado are the obvious options. If not, then you can add Thome and probably a few others to the list. I really just want a LH bat who can give me 300-400 PA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Interesting how Dye hasn't really gotten any offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 29, 2009 -> 04:40 PM) I think what you'll see is a sacrifice of the batting average (hit .294 last year) for more long balls. In the end, an .850 OPS out of our DH and some much needed power. I don't think so, getting out of Anaheim and into the Cell would be good for him. He was dealing with a chest injury IIRC, which was probably not so good for his swing. In '08 he hit 27 homers and 31 doubles, good for a .218 ISO. Vlad is really the best DH option left on the open market for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) Interesting how Dye hasn't really gotten any offers. Isn't he still insisting that he plays in the field? I thought that he finally bent a little bit and said that he might be willing to play first base a few weeks ago. I like JD. I hope he finds a job as a starter somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (League @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 11:23 AM) Vlad is really the best DH option left on the open market for us. Here's my big fear. Anyone else remember how, in 2008, the Cubs ripped up the NL, then got to the playoffs, and suddenly faced a team throwing 3 RHP out against them, and their RH-dominated lineup keyed by Soriano, Lee, Soto, DeRosa, and Ramirez found themselves shut down, to the point that they traded away DeRosa to save the money to sign Bradley, making them worse throughout? Unless Teahen has a big season where he could legitimately hit 5th, I could see us in the same boat; guys putting up good offensive numbers but we'd be vulnerable to teams that throw out several good RHP in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 11:34 AM) Here's my big fear. Anyone else remember how, in 2008, the Cubs ripped up the NL, then got to the playoffs, and suddenly faced a team throwing 3 RHP out against them, and their RH-dominated lineup keyed by Soriano, Lee, Soto, DeRosa, and Ramirez found themselves shut down, to the point that they traded away DeRosa to save the money to sign Bradley, making them worse throughout? Unless Teahen has a big season where he could legitimately hit 5th, I could see us in the same boat; guys putting up good offensive numbers but we'd be vulnerable to teams that throw out several good RHP in a row. Vlad crushes righties, in his career his line against them is: 5942 PA, .320/.380/.561, 301HR, 315 2B, 460BB/678K. Edit: Also, CQ is pretty damn good against righties too: .270/.356/.508 career, .303/.401/.574 in '08. Edited December 30, 2009 by League Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Vlad to the Sox gives me a "hell, we COULD win this thing" vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 10:57 AM) Vlad to the Sox gives me a "hell, we COULD win this thing" vibe. I wonder if he'll settle for a one year incentive laden deal with the Sox? Maybe then he'll be out to prove something and he'll crush everything that comes his way... That would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) I wonder if he'll settle for a one year incentive laden deal with the Sox? Maybe then he'll be out to prove something and he'll crush everything that comes his way... That would be awesome. I know there's a lot of other options out there for DH's and not many spots, but I just don't get the feeling that Vlad will "Settle for a one year incentive laden deal". Someone out there has to be willing to offer him a decent dollar amount, wouldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 My major concern with Vlad is that he can't move anymore. If you think Kotsay's knees are bad, i'd bet anything that Vlads' are in shreds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 11:17 AM) My major concern with Vlad is that he can't move anymore. If you think Kotsay's knees are bad, i'd bet anything that Vlads' are in shreds. Yeah, we don't want Vlad..or at least I don't. He's declining at an alarming rate. He can't play the field. He can't run. It would be worse than just signing Thome, and I don't want that either. I'm almost beginning to think the right thing to do is just stand pat and see what develops in the first half with Jones and Kotsay getting the AB's. Then make a move or two before July 31. Whatever move that needs to be--starting pitcher, bullpen, another hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 12:27 PM) Yeah, we don't want Vlad..or at least I don't. He's declining at an alarming rate. He can't play the field. He can't run. It would be worse than just signing Thome, and I don't want that either. I'm almost beginning to think the right thing to do is just stand pat and see what develops in the first half with Jones and Kotsay getting the AB's. Then make a move or two before July 31. Whatever move that needs to be--starting pitcher, bullpen, another hitter. If we go in with the offense we have right now, it is very likely that we won't be in it on July 31. It's a possibility of course, all these guys could have career years, but it isn't very likely. We have a very very bad offense right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 11:35 AM) If we go in with the offense we have right now, it is very likely that we won't be in it on July 31. It's a possibility of course, all these guys could have career years, but it isn't very likely. We have a very very bad offense right now. I don't think the offense is as bad as some think. Of course Quentin and Rios have to perform in order for the Sox offense to be effective, but I'm not going to worry about it. Quentin should be healthy going into the season, and Rios will come back to his career averages. That's my hope at least. And a full year of Beckham should be helpful. I see an All Star appearance for Gordon in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 11:05 AM) I know there's a lot of other options out there for DH's and not many spots, but I just don't get the feeling that Vlad will "Settle for a one year incentive laden deal". Someone out there has to be willing to offer him a decent dollar amount, wouldn't they? I thought the same thing about Bobby Abreu last off season, and what did he end up signing for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 01:19 PM) I thought the same thing about Bobby Abreu last off season, and what did he end up signing for? Good point. If Vlad is still out there in late January, I'm sure his price will drop right into our range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 01:19 PM) I thought the same thing about Bobby Abreu last off season, and what did he end up signing for? $5 million with $1 million in incentives that he earned. Which would seem to be out of our current price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 The reason so many players want to go to Texas is because there's no income tax there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 30, 2009 -> 12:43 PM) The reason so many players want to go to Texas is because there's no income tax there. That and it is a great place to hit and pad your stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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