jimmiething Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I was curious if the reason the sox didn't trade AJ was because Kenny plans on offering him arbitration after the season. I feel like that is a very good scenario for the sox to be in. 1. As of now AJ is a type A free agent 2. Next years draft is supposed to be much better than this years 3. Flowers has shown signs of life lately so if AJ decides to decline we have the catcher for next year. 4. If AJ accepts arbitration he can't make much more money on a one year deal compared to this year. 5. I really feel we as sox fans over value AJ on the market because he has been so important to us for the title run and his successful time here. I feel with a top 15 pick or a sandwich pick we could get q more valuable prospect than any marginal AAA guy a team like texas would send us. Do you think this is what Kenny could have been thinking when he light AJ's 10 and 5 rights kick in? Sidenote: If we can't get a legitimate league average left handed bat because ozzie doesn't want to cut kotsay I would rather have a computer do the managing because ozzie's "baseball instincts" are idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 $7M on a 1 year deal is still about double what he'd get on the open market, in other words: a tremendous overpay and AJ would accept the second it's offered. There's just no way in hell he's offered arbitration not when he'd be looking at 2 years, $6M-$7M on the open market and a guaranteed $7M+ for 1 year in arbitration. Not to mention the fact that we're already going to be cash strapped in 2011, we can't afford to pay a mid 30's catcher twice what he's worth. And the #1 reason KW didn't trade AJ: lack of a market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 If we are 8-9 out at the all star break don't you think KW will still trade AJ to a contender? I think so. If we are 4 out I guess we stay with AJ and then deal him for nothing this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) If we are 8-9 out at the all star break don't you think KW will still trade AJ to a contender? I think so. If we are 4 out I guess we stay with AJ and then deal him for nothing this offseason. I dont know if this was a mistake or not, and its not directed entirely at you, but its freakin frustrating how little people know about FO dealings. Between not getting how arbitration works, to contracts, etc, people need to know what they are talking about before typing some ridiculous statement. Im not saying everyone should know as much as GM, I know I am far from that (even if I do think once in a while that I could do better on deals), but people need to know the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 We should just offer him arbitration, ide rather have the draft picks than a minimal return at the deadline.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) We should just offer him arbitration, ide rather have the draft picks than a minimal return at the deadline.. You're not getting draft picks!!!! YOU'RE NOT GETTING DRAFT PICKS!!!! You'd be getting AJ Pierzynski back next year on a 1 year, $7 million+ deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:34 PM) You're not getting draft picks!!!! YOU'RE NOT GETTING DRAFT PICKS!!!! You'd be getting AJ Pierzynski back next year on a 1 year, $7 million+ deal. No s*** sherlock, I thought it would be painfully obvious I was joking.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:34 PM) No s*** sherlock, I thought it would be painfully obvious I was joking.. No, it wasn't. My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) No, it wasn't. My apologies. I figured since I posted it RIGHT after bigruss complained about it, any sarcastic accents wouldn't have been needed.. no reason for apologies.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 To me, it seems clear we should hang onto him and offer arbitration to get the draft picks. Just my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) I figured since I posted it RIGHT after bigruss complained about it, any sarcastic accents wouldn't have been needed.. no reason for apologies.. I luaghed. QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:53 PM) To me, it seems clear we should hang onto him and offer arbitration to get the draft picks. Just my 2 cents... Then I cried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:53 PM) To me, it seems clear we should hang onto him and offer arbitration to get the draft picks. Just my 2 cents... its just funny because ive seen Balta make at least 30 posts screaming that there will be no draft picks over the past month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:55 PM) its just funny because ive seen Balta make at least 30 posts screaming that there will be no draft picks over the past month And the reason why I responded the way I did...is that I keep having to make that bloody post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:56 PM) And the reason why I responded the way I did...is that I keep having to make that bloody post. I know, I figured everyone would have gotten with the program after the initial AJ thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) And the #1 reason KW didn't trade AJ: there was ZERO market for him. No real interest out there. Yeah, 'cause you know best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 BTW Sox fans don't overvalue AJ, at least not here. They underrate the s*** out of him and overvalue that stupid roid monkey in Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:11 PM) Yeah, 'cause you know best. Kalapse's statement seemed quite possible to me. AJ wasnt hitting great and due a decent amount of money, plus teams werent just willing to start trading yet. The Rangers, really the only reported team to have big interest in AJ, backed off because of ownership issues. How about backing up your statements with substance, not just insults and trying to put down people. Point out that there are teams in contention with struggling catchers and how much of a fit Aj would be there, or that Kenny still believed in this team. Say something constructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) And the #1 reason KW didn't trade AJ: there was ZERO market for him. No real interest out there. Bruce Levine reported that KW was asking for too much and there was plenty of interest. I just think they were not going to just dump his salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:12 PM) BTW Sox fans don't overvalue AJ, at least not here. They underrate the s*** out of him and overvalue that stupid roid monkey in Charlotte. AJ is a slightly above league average catcher with solid but not spectacular defensive skills who is in his age 33 season, which is generally around the time when catchers begin to break down or are forced to a different position if their offensive game is good enough to translate. For examples' sake, here are some OPS's of the best catchers of all time from ages 32-35... Mike Piazza 32 - .957 33 - .906 34 - .860 (64 games) 35 - .806 Johnny Bench 32 - .810 33 - .858 (52 games) 34 - .716 35 - .741 (final season) Ivan Rodriguez 32 - .893 33 - .735 34 - .769 35 - .714 and there's plenty more where that came from. It's just not reasonable to expect Pierzynski to maintain any type of success or health beyond this season, and people who want to see what Flowers can produce are not in the wrong at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:31 PM) AJ is a slightly above league average catcher with solid but not spectacular defensive skills who is in his age 33 season, which is generally around the time when catchers begin to break down or are forced to a different position if their offensive game is good enough to translate. For examples' sake, here are some OPS's of the best catchers of all time from ages 32-35... Mike Piazza 32 - .957 33 - .906 34 - .860 (64 games) 35 - .806 Johnny Bench 32 - .810 33 - .858 (52 games) 34 - .716 35 - .741 (final season) Ivan Rodriguez 32 - .893 33 - .735 34 - .769 35 - .714 and there's plenty more where that came from. It's just not reasonable to expect Pierzynski to maintain any type of success or health beyond this season, and people who want to see what Flowers can produce are not in the wrong at all. I would disagree with "slightly above" because he is an above average catcher. But otherwise I see your reason for concern. My problem is the thinking that Flowers is going to come up and not be a black hole. Catcher IMO is the most important position on the field other than pitcher and there's a lot that goes into it. Catchers as a rule aren't terrific offensive players for that reason, so to find a guy who can hit plus block some balls plus call a game plus handle a veteran staff in general while helping young pitchers grow - well, a lot of teams don't have that. We didn't have that for a long time. And I don't see how Flowers is going to give us that. And for that reason, I don't want to see us get rid of AJ until it is apparent that we have to, and I don't see us being at that point. AJ is raking this month. My guess would be Flowers would come up, struggle mightily at the plate, and then probably take those plate struggles back behind the plate with him. Or vice versa. I would much rather acquire a veteran who is younger if we have to go that route than go with a prospect of Flowers' ilk. He's a very nice prospect in all honesty, but I'm not convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) I would disagree with "slightly above" because he is an above average catcher. But otherwise I see your reason for concern. My problem is the thinking that Flowers is going to come up and not be a black hole. Catcher IMO is the most important position on the field other than pitcher and there's a lot that goes into it. Catchers as a rule aren't terrific offensive players for that reason, so to find a guy who can hit plus block some balls plus call a game plus handle a veteran staff in general while helping young pitchers grow - well, a lot of teams don't have that. We didn't have that for a long time. And I don't see how Flowers is going to give us that. And for that reason, I don't want to see us get rid of AJ until it is apparent that we have to, and I don't see us being at that point. AJ is raking this month. My guess would be Flowers would come up, struggle mightily at the plate, and then probably take those plate struggles back behind the plate with him. Or vice versa. I would much rather acquire a veteran who is younger if we have to go that route than go with a prospect of Flowers' ilk. He's a very nice prospect in all honesty, but I'm not convinced. Much better post than calling him a 'roid monster...or whatever it was you called him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I really doubt that there was no interest in AJ at all.. and even so, there would be more interest in July than there is in late May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) I really doubt that there was no interest in AJ at all.. and even so, there would be more interest in July than there is in late May The 10/5 rights are the issue now, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (T R U @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) I really doubt that there was no interest in AJ at all.. and even so, there would be more interest in July than there is in late May I'm sure there was some but there aren't a lot of teams out there looking for an everyday catcher especially in the middle of June and on top of it KW had very little leverage; any GM he talked to was aware of AJ's pending 10/5 rights knowing that if KW wanted to deal him hassle free it'd have to be before they kick in so any return for him would have been so low that it really wouldn't be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 23, 2010 -> 05:01 PM) I'm sure there was some but there aren't a lot of teams out there looking for an everyday catcher especially in the middle of June and on top of it KW had very little leverage; any GM he talked to was aware of AJ's pending 10/5 rights knowing that if KW wanted to deal him hassle free it'd have to be before they kick in so any return for him would have been so low that it really wouldn't be worth it. Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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