AJ's "intangibles"

[Jerksticks]

He can't throw a guy out and seems to be getting worse with the bat (although his 2009 makes it impossible for me to come to a real conclusion about his future hitting ability).

 

If Buster Posey just won the world series as a rookie, what does that say about AJ's wonderful intangibles? Does Buster have that rare talent of calling a great game like AJ, or have we put too much emphasis on this trait? We've basically put OBP and defense on the backburner for AJ because of this wonderful "skill" of his.

 

Granted Catcher is a hard spot to find production, so offensive stats need to be comparably weighted to other catchers. Fact remains: he can't throw anybody out, he's getting old, and that 2010 bat of his was pretty useless. He was my least favorite guy batting last year, almost cringe-worthy.

 

I think catcher would be a wonderful spot to infuse some new blood. I'll take him back but I wouldn't prefer it.

[RockRaines]

Posey did have some very good mentoring, but he is a Joe Mauer-esque young phenom. Kinda hard to compare that to AJP. However AJ does handle a pitching staff quite well but without his offensive production he become a bench guy to me. Frankly I am willing to cut ties with him based on cost.

[sircaffey]

I'd sign AJ to a one-year deal and hope Flowers figures it out in AAA, but I think AJ will find a 2-year deal somewhere else.

[Jerksticks]

Posey did have some very good mentoring, but he is a Joe Mauer-esque young phenom. Kinda hard to compare that to AJP. However AJ does handle a pitching staff quite well but without his offensive production he become a bench guy to me. Frankly I am willing to cut ties with him based on cost.

 

No, very easy to compare that to AJP. AJ's entire value is based around this idea that he handles a pitching staff extremely well. So if this is something only a few catchers can do, then yea, maybe we should hang on to AJ as long as we can.

 

But methinks differently. If rookie Posey can lead a staff to a WS Title then it places severe doubt in my mind about AJs value. He may just be an old catcher who can't hit or play defense, but he will trot out there 90% of games and not get hurt. Blah...gimme Flowers for 400k if this is the case.

Pains me to say it but AJ might be the biggest blackhole on the team now.

[klaus kinski]

Without him its an emotionless team

[ILMOU]

hurt. Blah...gimme Flowers for 400k if this is the case.

Pains me to say it but AJ might be the biggest blackhole on the team now.

 

When I read this the first time, I seriously thought you were making a prediction on his strikeout total. I'm with you, though. Flowers will probably be a worse blackhole, at least early on, but I can live with that, I think.

[Jerksticks]

When I read this the first time, I seriously thought you were making a prediction on his strikeout total. I'm with you, though. Flowers will probably be a worse blackhole, at least early on, but I can live with that, I think.

 

Haha 2 birds 1 stone. I'm sure Flowers would be worse at first but even if he hits .200 at least we save 4-6 million. Ughh but then we get even more right-handed. I dunno anymore.

 

We have a really young team so maybe it's just natural to let the last few old guys walk and let the kids establish new leaders. I'm only worried about replacing PKs production, not AJs.

[macsandz]

Without him its an emotionless team

 

Emotion has nothing to do with baseball.

[macsandz]

Posey did have some very good mentoring, but he is a Joe Mauer-esque young phenom. Kinda hard to compare that to AJP. However AJ does handle a pitching staff quite well but without his offensive production he become a bench guy to me. Frankly I am willing to cut ties with him based on cost.

 

Kenny may agree with you. AJ has heard nothing close to any kind of offer from the Sox as of yet...

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Great for Posey that he won a World Series and all, but I think with that staff you could probably fare just as well with a netted backstop calling games behind home plate. IIRC he wasn't even a catcher until fairly recently. Don't get me wrong, he got called up and really helped SF out, but its far too early to throw words like Joe and Mauer into the same sentence as Buster Posey and the less than a full season he has under his belt (even if it did include a title run).

 

I'd like for AJ to come back for one more year. You already probably have Morel at 3B. Add Flowers at C and a potential Dayan sighting at 1B and you might as well just call it a rebuild. I can't see all three of those guys being everyday starters next year unless the division is wildly out of reach.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[Pale Sox]

Emotion has nothing to do with baseball.

I disagree. Emotion has a lot to do with baseball. Ask Carlos Zambrano.

[greg775]

Think the Rangers would want AJ? I wouldn't discount it. It'd be a new challenge for him with decent pitchers to work with.

I think if the Rangers were smart they'd go after AJP.

Yes his intangibles are important IMO. I wonder if deep down AJ wants to stay or wants that "change of scenery" to fire him up. Didn't thome admit it really helped him this year, wanting to prove he wasn't done?

Edited November 4, 2010 by greg775

[GREEDY]

Without him its an emotionless team

You dig WWE?

[Dick Allen]

If AJ leaves and plays for a team that goes to the postseason, the posters sort of saying get rid of him right now will pull a Uribe and suddenly love him. There is a lot AJ adds to a team. The White Sox bench does not call pitches, so while its ultimately up to the pitcher, the staff has trusted him through the years and that's a big plus. Problems with catchers, no matter what their stature is trouble, see Burnett and Posada. He also is a workhorse.Not having to play your back up catcher 60 games a year is something we haven't seen for a long while. There is a reason they are back up catchers and usually its because they hit like pitchers. I hope they retain him. I just don't see anyone better than him the Sox have a reasonable chance of acquiring.

[soxrwhite]

Like most players A.J. goes through hot streaks and good years and bad streaks and years. I could live without him but don't see Flowers as the replacement. If you sign a veteran you would be lucky to get some one as good as A.J. Trade Flowers and try to get another prospect to groom, meanwhile sign A.J. for 2 years.

[Milkman delivers]

If AJ leaves and plays for a team that goes to the postseason, the posters sort of saying get rid of him right now will pull a Uribe and suddenly love him. There is a lot AJ adds to a team. The White Sox bench does not call pitches, so while its ultimately up to the pitcher, the staff has trusted him through the years and that's a big plus. Problems with catchers, no matter what their stature is trouble, see Burnett and Posada. He also is a workhorse.Not having to play your back up catcher 60 games a year is something we haven't seen for a long while. There is a reason they are back up catchers and usually its because they hit like pitchers. I hope they retain him. I just don't see anyone better than him the Sox have a reasonable chance of acquiring.

 

You know that those two things have absolutely nothing to do with one another. You can love a player and still know that it's time for him and the organization to go separate ways.

 

Go back and find the thread where it was mentioned that Uribe was allowed to walk/signed with the Giants. I guarantee you will see quite a few people say that they really liked/loved Juan, but that it was just time for a change.

 

But since you were one of the few who always defended Uribe (and trust me, I defended him quite a bit), you're going to make it seem that everyone wished death upon Juan when he left.

[Balta1701]

Think the Rangers would want AJ? I wouldn't discount it. It'd be a new challenge for him with decent pitchers to work with.

I think if the Rangers were smart they'd go after AJP.

Yes his intangibles are important IMO. I wonder if deep down AJ wants to stay or wants that "change of scenery" to fire him up. Didn't thome admit it really helped him this year, wanting to prove he wasn't done?

The thing that AJ's going to run into as a major problem is convincing other teams that he won't be a clubhouse cancer. The Sox at least know that they can deal with him personality wise for the most part, but every other team's players and often managers have had him get under their skin already. Plus, they know he has a history of having pitchers and coaches he doesn't get along with (i.e. S.F.) and there were probably a couple incidents in Chicago that filtered out that might make other GM's wary as well (the whole college football on every TV in the locker room thing from 09).

 

I'd expect some team, maybe the Rangers, maybe others, will wind up making AJ an offer, but I really doubt that any team is going to go that aggressively after him. It'll probably be a situation like when he originally signed with the Sox...unless the Sox extend him, he'll be out there until January, some team will give up and realize their catching position stinks, they'll sit down with him repeatedly to make sure that they think they can live with him, and they'll put together an incentive-rich deal of some sort.

[southsideirish71]

Flowers has a lot of power however I have not seen a swing or an approach that looks conducive to contact. So far he looks like a right handed Joe Borchard. He needs to make an adjustment to his swing so he can square up the ball yet not miss it most of the time. As much as AJ frustrates people with his swing first approach his ability to make contact is something that will be missed if he leaves the lineup.

 

Before the season I was all for letting AJ move, however I have not seen anything out of Flowers in the minors this year or at the majors that tells me he is going to be a contributor at the major league level this year. I think we have to keep AJ at this point.

[witesoxfan]

I do too, but you can't overspend for him. AJP at $7 million is too much, but $3-4 million is much more reasonable. He's going to look at Vizquel getting $1.75 and say "and I'm only worth $4 mill?"

 

I think it could get messy.

[Chicago White Sox]

I do too, but you can't overspend for him. AJP at $7 million is too much, but $3-4 million is much more reasonable. He's going to look at Vizquel getting $1.75 and say "and I'm only worth $4 mill?"

 

I think it could get messy.

Exactly, it's all about the price and years. I'd be very happy with A.J. back on a one year deal at $3 - 4 million, but if he wants a two year deal or a higher annual salary, then we pretty much have to pass on him. We have way too many needs to overpay for A.J.

 

In a perfect world, you'd bring A.J. back for one last run with our current pitching staff (at a reasonable price), give Tyler Flowers one more year in AAA to see if he can fix his swing, and then figure out your long-term plan at catcher next offseason. If Flowers improves this year, then you can consider making him the starter in 2012. If not, you're probably going to have to look outside the organization for an everyday catcher.

 

Regardless, I think it would be a huge mistake to count on Flowers to play a significant role this year. He will be most valuable for us an our emergency catcher down in AAA, where he keep working on his game and improve his long-term value to us or another team.

[NorthSideSox72]

Emotion has nothing to do with baseball.

This empty argument again? Players are human beings. Of course emotions effect them.

 

That said, AJ understands the game at a level most players don't, and finds the edge in every situation. That talent is what makes him skilled with the pitching staff handling and game calling. That has a lot of value at the catching position.

 

And it seemed like his work against base stealers in 2010 improved, from what I saw. But he's still struggling with that. Offensively, he's below average.

 

I too hope they can get him for 1 year $3-4M, with a team option for a 2nd year. I think they might actually be able to pull that off.

 

[elrockinMT]

He can't throw a guy out and seems to be getting worse with the bat (although his 2009 makes it impossible for me to come to a real conclusion about his future hitting ability).

 

If Buster Posey just won the world series as a rookie, what does that say about AJ's wonderful intangibles? Does Buster have that rare talent of calling a great game like AJ, or have we put too much emphasis on this trait? We've basically put OBP and defense on the backburner for AJ because of this wonderful "skill" of his.

 

Granted Catcher is a hard spot to find production, so offensive stats need to be comparably weighted to other catchers. Fact remains: he can't throw anybody out, he's getting old, and that 2010 bat of his was pretty useless. He was my least favorite guy batting last year, almost cringe-worthy.

 

I think catcher would be a wonderful spot to infuse some new blood. I'll take him back but I wouldn't prefer it.

 

 

It's hard to throw people out when the picthers don't help you by keeping them close. I believe we have heard many times that our pitchers aren't good at holding runners close. It seems to me you would want to look more at throwing errors by a catcher. I don't think AJ had many. AJP is a good catcher and delivered a number of clutch hits

[elrockinMT]

Flowers has a lot of power however I have not seen a swing or an approach that looks conducive to contact. So far he looks like a right handed Joe Borchard. He needs to make an adjustment to his swing so he can square up the ball yet not miss it most of the time. As much as AJ frustrates people with his swing first approach his ability to make contact is something that will be missed if he leaves the lineup.

 

Before the season I was all for letting AJ move, however I have not seen anything out of Flowers in the minors this year or at the majors that tells me he is going to be a contributor at the major league level this year. I think we have to keep AJ at this point.

 

 

Flowers is still a work in progres and needs to step it up a notch

[Jerksticks]

Flowers is still a work in progres and needs to step it up a notch

 

Big time. This should have been the easiest decision ever, but Flowers had to faceplant for a year.

[The Gooch]

While they were an overall disappointment this year, we still have one more year with potentially one of the best starting staffs in baseball. For next year, I want an established vet putting down the signs. Not to say it has to be AJ, but its not the time to bring up an inexperienced catcher.