OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah that's pretty f***ed up. I wonder, after taking into account insurance adjustments, how much those pens really cost. The stated price and the real price are often dramatically different.

As someone who has had to buy some for my 15 month old (hopefully only as a precaution), let me tell you, the first time I payed for the thing, I was in complete and utter shock. Couldn't believe I was paying hundreds of dollars for something that I realistically should have multiple sets of (one at home, one in the cars, etc) and which expire every year. NBC had a special on this yesterday (not as in depth as this article) but ridiculous price gauging.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah that's pretty f***ed up. I wonder, after taking into account insurance adjustments, how much those pens really cost. The stated price and the real price are often dramatically different.

I want to say when we got ours through our insurance companies pharmacy it was almost $400 bucks for one two pack (and that was probably 4 months ago).

[Jenksismyhero]

At prices that high, it's amazing some other competitor hasn't swooped in to make a generic brand and completely cut the legs out from under Mylan.

 

edit: according to random internet site, apparently there have been attempts but the FDA is acting as a road block. https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault

 

 

For those prices i'd buy a syringe and some Epinephrine. My niece has severe allergies and I know my sister has used Epipens in the past. She's never complained about the cost though.

Edited August 24, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[Balta1701]

At prices that high, it's amazing some other competitor hasn't swooped in to make a generic brand and completely cut the legs out from under Mylan.

I believe I've read that this one it is specifically patents on the delivery system that make it difficult for generic competition, not the drug itself.

[Jenksismyhero]

I believe I've read that this one it is specifically patents on the delivery system that make it difficult for generic competition, not the drug itself.

 

Right, but you would think with the size of our medical device industry some engineer somewhere could have discovered a work around. Especially for a 50% markup for each one sold (and they sell a lot).

[LittleHurt05]

Some not so great news for the exchanges:

 

Aetna Backs Off Plans to Expand Its ACA Business

Health insurer’s moves underscore concerns about stability of insurance marketplaces

 

Great. Last fall Blue Cross basically told their non-group plan members to f*** off so we had to go through the marketplace. The two best options I remember were Harken and Land of Lincoln. Luckily, I chose the brand new Harken because Land of Lincoln just folded a few weeks ago. Although I don't know if Harken actually exists because I have yet to receive a single claim correspondence, nothing big thankfully. They pride themselves on their wellness centers where every member has free access to their physicians. My wife wasn't feeling well and called to make appointment, they said, sure, we can see you in 3 weeks.

[StrangeSox]

There's been more news in the past couple of weeks about there not being enough or in some cases any insurance providers in some health exchange markets.

[StrangeSox]

At prices that high, it's amazing some other competitor hasn't swooped in to make a generic brand and completely cut the legs out from under Mylan.

 

edit: according to random internet site, apparently there have been attempts but the FDA is acting as a road block. https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault

 

 

For those prices i'd buy a syringe and some Epinephrine. My niece has severe allergies and I know my sister has used Epipens in the past. She's never complained about the cost though.

 

Mises.org is the land of completely-off-the-deep-end libertarians who argue against child labor laws or even parents having a legal obligation to feed their own children fwiw. Everything everywhere is always the government's fault in their eyes, the gold standard is absolutely necessary, if reality contradicts theory so much the worse for reality etc. etc. Austrian economics is just flat-out nutty.

 

As the editorial points out, relying on a syringe and epinephrine is a lot trickier to make sure the dosage is accurate, and if the dosage isn't accurate, it won't help. And schools sure as hell aren't going to take that risk when they're required to carry the medication.

[Chisoxfn]

I believe I've read that this one it is specifically patents on the delivery system that make it difficult for generic competition, not the drug itself.

That is correct. The injection system is unique vs. the drug and the injection system is critical. You can do it using a standard syringe, but it would require you to receive far more teaching than the injection system that comes with the current unit.

[Chisoxfn]

At prices that high, it's amazing some other competitor hasn't swooped in to make a generic brand and completely cut the legs out from under Mylan.

 

edit: according to random internet site, apparently there have been attempts but the FDA is acting as a road block. https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault

 

 

For those prices i'd buy a syringe and some Epinephrine. My niece has severe allergies and I know my sister has used Epipens in the past. She's never complained about the cost though.

The reason it isn't syringe and some epinephrine is that you need to actually know how to use the syringe, etc. Evidently it isn't overly cut and dry so you'd have to have each person in the family receive more extensive training which exists (as well as any caregivers / day care / etc). And well, to be frank, I'm not going to risk someone screwing that up vs the simple approach when we are talking about a potential life threatening situation. Not something to mess around with.

[StrangeSox]

The reason it isn't syringe and some epinephrine is that you need to actually know how to use the syringe, etc. Evidently it isn't overly cut and dry so you'd have to have each person in the family receive more extensive training which exists (as well as any caregivers / day care / etc). And well, to be frank, I'm not going to risk someone screwing that up vs the simple approach when we are talking about a potential life threatening situation. Not something to mess around with.

 

Last year, my wife had a child with an extremely severe dairy allergy. Luckily it never came up in her classroom, but he carried an EpiPen with him 24/7. You want anyone around the person to be able to administer the medication quickly, accurately and simply, and that just wouldn't happen with a jar of medication and a syringe.

[Chisoxfn]

Last year, my wife had a child with an extremely severe dairy allergy. Luckily it never came up in her classroom, but he carried an EpiPen with him 24/7. You want anyone around the person to be able to administer the medication quickly, accurately and simply, and that just wouldn't happen with a jar of medication and a syringe.

We know our son has both a dairy and peanut allergy. He's had both and not had issues breathing, but we have no idea how he might react as he continues to grow, etc (does it get worse, etc). It does swell up really quick though (so it isn't a few spots we are talking about). His allergy levels when we did the tests were very high and well, I'm not going to f*** around with the life of my son, I can tell you that much (especially since if something like that were to ever happen, I pray it doesn't, I know I'd already be nervous as s*** that I wouldn't want to deal with anything other then the quickest and easiest, least likely to screw up injection). I'm not a doctor and I don't deal in typical life / death situations.

 

I also know that based upon this, I will not mess around with keeping an expired product (as I do with Tylenol / aspirin) cause I will be honest, I probably would have (of course my wife would have vetoed it). Crazy part of this is, the market for this product has to be up so much given the increase of food allergies (would really like to know within our environment is causing the increase). And don't tell me it is the whole kids don't play with dirt aspect, cause my son has been allergic since he was a few months old so somehow I don't think that is it (it isn't like he was 5 and using antibacterial his whole life and not able to play outside and then randomly developed some allergy).

[Harry Chappas]

While listening to the radio on the drive home I thought I heard that the CEO of the company's father is a senator from West Virginia. I found that interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

While listening to the radio on the drive home I thought I heard that the CEO of the company's father is a senator from West Virginia. I found that interesting.

Yep. I had heard that today. The CEO's response was pretty rough today, that said, she does have a fiduciary duty to her shareholders to maximize profits, so you can't really blame her, it is the system which is broken (she didn't do anything illegal).

[LittleHurt05]

My "new" health insurer for 2016 is dropping from the exchange now and is no longer offering my plan in 2017. Great. Either keep paying more or start finding sub-par doctors for my kids.

[greg775]

My "new" health insurer for 2016 is dropping from the exchange now and is no longer offering my plan in 2017. Great. Either keep paying more or start finding sub-par doctors for my kids.

How can companies drop from the exchange? I thought it was law?

Folks ... our health care system is SO BAD that I see one of two solutions. a.) Either go to a government run system where everybody gets free health care (I know, heaven forbid we do such a thing! It will cause more problems; it will take months to see a doctor!) or b.) the new president has to name one Demo and one Republican (how about Carter and McCain or Bill Clinton and Dole) as head of a healtcare committee to get us a system that remains open market but actually works. (I know, fat chance in f***ing hell we can work together on something so important).

Folks ... health care is a disaster. We're in trouble as a nation with the current costs, the current Obamacare system as well.

 

See, this issue is why our once great country will never be great again. We CANT go non partisan on this issue. We CANT work together cause we don't work together. And this issue is a downright embarrassment to our country. Our health care system is disgusting. The costs??? Like out of a horror movie. What's one night in the hospital now? 20,000 bucks? What's an Xray or MRI cost? 1,000 bucks?? HELP us Dear Lord, Help us.

[Y2HH]

How can companies drop from the exchange? I thought it was law?

Folks ... our health care system is SO BAD that I see one of two solutions. a.) Either go to a government run system where everybody gets free health care (I know, heaven forbid we do such a thing! It will cause more problems; it will take months to see a doctor!) or b.) the new president has to name one Demo and one Republican (how about Carter and McCain or Bill Clinton and Dole) as head of a healtcare committee to get us a system that remains open market but actually works. (I know, fat chance in f***ing hell we can work together on something so important).

Folks ... health care is a disaster. We're in trouble as a nation with the current costs, the current Obamacare system as well.

 

See, this issue is why our once great country will never be great again. We CANT go non partisan on this issue. We CANT work together cause we don't work together. And this issue is a downright embarrassment to our country. Our health care system is disgusting. The costs??? Like out of a horror movie. What's one night in the hospital now? 20,000 bucks? What's an Xray or MRI cost? 1,000 bucks?? HELP us Dear Lord, Help us.

 

First, stop calling it "free".

 

Second, yes, the system is bad, and becoming worse. Insurance for many is largely useless these days.

 

Now, if you want to have the single payer system conversation, be prepared to be realistic about it, and get ready for some financial pain. Get ready for WAY higher taxes than you pay now. That's the trade off. And I'm talking 50+% for everyone, across the board. And even at those tax rates, I doubt it would cover the expenses necessary to continue care as it is, AND overhaul the entire system.

 

If the government takes over the HC industry, they will have to cap wages, prices and drug prices at all once. Doctors, regardless of their speciality, won't be making 650k per year any longer, and big pharma will see tumbling profits to an insane degree. There will be a lot of hurt and pain for us adults for a long while.

 

Keep in mind the US Govt can't even run the VA, and anyone that says they can is just sticking the head in the sand. The VA is terrible, and it's small fry in comparison to how big this takeover would be.

 

In the end, even if they went to single payer -- and I believe they have too -- it'll be MANY years before anyone reaps the benefits of it...

[greg775]

First, stop calling it "free".

 

Second, yes, the system is bad, and becoming worse. Insurance for many is largely useless these days.

 

Now, if you want to have the single payer system conversation, be prepared to be realistic about it, and get ready for some financial pain. Get ready for WAY higher taxes than you pay now. That's the trade off. And I'm talking 50+% for everyone, across the board. And even at those tax rates, I doubt it would cover the expenses necessary to continue care as it is, AND overhaul the entire system.

 

If the government takes over the HC industry, they will have to cap wages, prices and drug prices at all once. Doctors, regardless of their speciality, won't be making 650k per year any longer, and big pharma will see tumbling profits to an insane degree. There will be a lot of hurt and pain for us adults for a long while.

 

Keep in mind the US Govt can't even run the VA, and anyone that says they can is just sticking the head in the sand. The VA is terrible, and it's small fry in comparison to how big this takeover would be.

 

In the end, even if they went to single payer -- and I believe they have too -- it'll be MANY years before anyone reaps the benefits of it...

What are we going to do? Nesteggs are gone in one 3 day trip to the hospital. We're all doomed. What do we do??? I'm bipartisan on this. We're all screwed.

[Y2HH]

What are we going to do? Nesteggs are gone in one 3 day trip to the hospital. We're all doomed. What do we do??? I'm bipartisan on this. We're all screwed.

 

Screaming we're all screwed doesn't accomplish much.

 

There are things we can do, but we have to swallow the fact there is going to be some financial pain for us to build a better future for our kids and the next generation. That being said, the terrible leaders we keep electing will likely do nothing with this "financial pain", and possibly even make things worse than they are today. This is what happens when you elect incompetent people.

 

Ultimately, we have to ask, does suffering this financial pain in the short term actually equate to anything? Or do they squander it and skim money off of it like Chicago did, which took one of the highest overall tax rates (when you combine property, sales, sticker costs, fees, etc.) and squandered it all to the point the City ended up with nothing but a nice lakefront and loads of debt they can't (or won't) repay?

 

If we want to fix this, we have to start by electing competent leaders -- and there are probably less than 10 of them (combined) in the entire House/Senate at this point -- and then start gutting the system as we know it. Raising taxes with the current idiots we have running the country will likely write a law filled with pork and squander every penny of that money before it reaches the system it was meant to fix.

 

f*** it, you're right.

 

We're all screwed.

 

Because I have NO faith the American voters will start electing competent politicians anytime soon.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Y2HH

[iamshack]

Screaming we're all screwed doesn't accomplish much.

 

There are things we can do, but we have to swallow the fact there is going to be some financial pain for us to build a better future for our kids and the next generation. That being said, the terrible leaders we keep electing will likely do nothing with this "financial pain", and possibly even make things worse than they are today. This is what happens when you elect incompetent people.

 

Ultimately, we have to ask, does suffering this financial pain in the short term actually equate to anything? Or do they squander it and skim money off of it like Chicago did, which took one of the highest overall tax rates (when you combine property, sales, sticker costs, fees, etc.) and squandered it all to the point the City ended up with nothing but a nice lakefront and loads of debt they can't (or won't) repay?

 

If we want to fix this, we have to start by electing competent leaders -- and there are probably less than 10 of them (combined) in the entire House/Senate at this point -- and then start gutting the system as we know it. Raising taxes with the current idiots we have running the country will likely write a law filled with pork and squander every penny of that money before it reaches the system it was meant to fix.

 

f*** it, you're right.

 

We're all screwed.

 

Because I have NO faith the American voters will start electing competent politicians anytime soon.

The problem is the politicians don't feel like they can stay in office by enacting these changes, because their terms aren't long enough to see the positive impacts of the temporary pain.

 

It isn't unlike a GM who trades away his farm system because he needs to win now to keep his job.

[greg775]

Screaming we're all screwed doesn't accomplish much.

 

There are things we can do, but we have to swallow the fact there is going to be some financial pain for us to build a better future for our kids and the next generation. That being said, the terrible leaders we keep electing will likely do nothing with this "financial pain", and possibly even make things worse than they are today. This is what happens when you elect incompetent people.

 

Ultimately, we have to ask, does suffering this financial pain in the short term actually equate to anything? Or do they squander it and skim money off of it like Chicago did, which took one of the highest overall tax rates (when you combine property, sales, sticker costs, fees, etc.) and squandered it all to the point the City ended up with nothing but a nice lakefront and loads of debt they can't (or won't) repay?

 

If we want to fix this, we have to start by electing competent leaders -- and there are probably less than 10 of them (combined) in the entire House/Senate at this point -- and then start gutting the system as we know it. Raising taxes with the current idiots we have running the country will likely write a law filled with pork and squander every penny of that money before it reaches the system it was meant to fix.

 

f*** it, you're right.

 

We're all screwed.

 

Because I have NO faith the American voters will start electing competent politicians anytime soon.

 

 

The problem is the politicians don't feel like they can stay in office by enacting these changes, because their terms aren't long enough to see the positive impacts of the temporary pain.

 

It isn't unlike a GM who trades away his farm system because he needs to win now to keep his job.

 

You both make EXCELLENT points! My take is we have to change the system radically in terms of partisanship. And it's impossible to do that EXCEPT if our government allowed/required all government jobs to be filled by one Demo and one Repub. For instance secretary of state (have 2 of 'em; one Demo one Repub). Anybody hired to lead a committee on health care reform (one Demo, one Repub). For instance didn't Bill Clinton put Hillary in charge of health care reform way back when? Nobody wanted to work with her. Obamacare?? Had NO support cause nobody on the Repub side was gonna support it. They are way too selfish.

We've got to work TOGETHER and face it. We'll NEVER work together. Like I said earlier the state of Kansas is gonna vote Trump in. We vote Brownback in twice. Cause of the letter R.

It's sickening. We CANT cooperate as a country to get things done. And health care is gonna kill us all.

[Quin]

You both make EXCELLENT points! My take is we have to change the system radically in terms of partisanship. And it's impossible to do that EXCEPT if our government allowed/required all government jobs to be filled by one Demo and one Repub. For instance secretary of state (have 2 of 'em; one Demo one Repub). Anybody hired to lead a committee on health care reform (one Demo, one Repub). For instance didn't Bill Clinton put Hillary in charge of health care reform way back when? Nobody wanted to work with her. Obamacare?? Had NO support cause nobody on the Repub side was gonna support it. They are way too selfish.

We've got to work TOGETHER and face it. We'll NEVER work together. Like I said earlier the state of Kansas is gonna vote Trump in. We vote Brownback in twice. Cause of the letter R.

It's sickening. We CANT cooperate as a country to get things done. And health care is gonna kill us all.

 

I agree the system is a clusterf***. I just want to highlight this beautiful (and depressing) phrase.

[southsider2k5]

First, stop calling it "free".

 

Second, yes, the system is bad, and becoming worse. Insurance for many is largely useless these days.

 

Now, if you want to have the single payer system conversation, be prepared to be realistic about it, and get ready for some financial pain. Get ready for WAY higher taxes than you pay now. That's the trade off. And I'm talking 50+% for everyone, across the board. And even at those tax rates, I doubt it would cover the expenses necessary to continue care as it is, AND overhaul the entire system.

 

If the government takes over the HC industry, they will have to cap wages, prices and drug prices at all once. Doctors, regardless of their speciality, won't be making 650k per year any longer, and big pharma will see tumbling profits to an insane degree. There will be a lot of hurt and pain for us adults for a long while.

 

Keep in mind the US Govt can't even run the VA, and anyone that says they can is just sticking the head in the sand. The VA is terrible, and it's small fry in comparison to how big this takeover would be.

 

In the end, even if they went to single payer -- and I believe they have too -- it'll be MANY years before anyone reaps the benefits of it...

 

I said it years ago. This was the intent of this new system. You are witnessing the complete and total destruction of private insurance by government so that they can take it over. It is exactly why no one seems to care that all of these private insurers are leaving exchanges. When there are none left, then they get to pretend to "save" us by moving us over to a VA like system.

[StrangeSox]

There's a difference between a Medicare for all like system, which is what the progressive wing of the party pushes for, and a nhs/va style system where the government is actually the Healthcare provider.

 

The intent of the law was to greatly expand coverage while also curbing costs. If our current private insurance system can't support that, good riddance.

 

We also still have the majority of Americans getting their coverage through non- exchange plans, so while the struggles the exchanges are seeing in some states aren't good, it's not the total destruction of the private health insurance industry.

Edited October 15, 2016 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

There's a difference between a Medicare for all like system, which is what the progressive wing of the party pushes for, and a nhs/va style system where the government is actually the Healthcare provider.

 

The intent of the law was to greatly expand coverage while also curbing costs. If our current private insurance system can't support that, good riddance.

 

We also still have the majority of Americans getting their coverage through non- exchange plans, so while the struggles the exchanges are seeing in some states aren't good, it's not the total destruction of the private health insurance industry.

 

 

There is the "intent" of the law, and then there is the intent of the law. I have no doubt the government won't be content just controlling insurance, they then will want to control medication distribution and the actual practice of medicine, that they they can control "costs" to save us all.