Jerksticks Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I just heard this doctor on the radio. Seems like a genius. At least the premise of his model seems smart to me. This is an old article but it still sums up his idea more or less. What are some of your thoughts on it? https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2013/0...mine-obamacare/ He doesn't seem partisan. He's just one of the thousands of pissed doctors but it seems like he actually did something to help people get care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 06:26 PM) Can somebody explain how this plan would drop 15M Americans? I thought anybody who signs on to Medicaid through 2020 gets grabdfathered forever or until they leave the program. Where's the drop Part of it's all the people (think those in their 20's not covered by parents, and those 45-64 who can no longer afford the much higher premiums that will increase another 25-75% for some of them) no longer paying for coverage, which obviously increases the number of truly sick in the risk pools and therefore creates another spiral of increasing prices for everyone with insurance. Remember, only 10% of those with health insurance are soaking up nearly 2/3rd's of all the expenses in the health care industry. The other large group is all those who are going to be cut out over time because they're in the bottom 20% (mostly low wage earners, some unemployed) who are going to see their costs increase from let's say $50 per month to $150-250. Over time, as the Federal monies allocated to the states dry up and state budgets continue to be pushed to the limits, you're going to see a large amount of poor people dropping out as well because the monthly cost is not worth it (cost/benefit analysis). They probably feel they will just go to the emergency room and get taken care of, or they will pay for a policy again when they really need it, but carrying increased monthly premiums won't work with limited incomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 06:32 PM) I just heard this doctor on the radio. Seems like a genius. At least the premise of his model seems smart to me. This is an old article but it still sums up his idea more or less. What are some of your thoughts on it? https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2013/0...mine-obamacare/ He doesn't seem partisan. He's just one of the thousands of pissed doctors but it seems like he actually did something to help people get care. Undermine Obamacare as part of the title of the article doesn't seem partisan at all? If it was non-partisan, it would be 1) reforming/improving the ACA to make it the most efficient possible program, or 2) starting over from scratch and creating an even better program. Undermining Obamacare seems to have a very explicit political message to it. Choke the current system to death so the blame can be placed on Obama/Dems rather than anything that follows after. The "failures" here are not the ACA itself, but the fact that insurance companies don't want to give up any of their profits at all. Naturally, they're going to decline to offer insurance in areas where they are losing (or at least arguing that they're losing) money offering plans. But the same exact thing (only worse) will happen with the new GOP plan. There's nothing in the bill dealing with the health insurance industry, or the supply-side issue with declining numbers of doctors/clinics/hospitals, especially in rural areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Lol it's published in an Objectivist magazine, 100% guaranteed to be nutty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 06:32 PM) I just heard this doctor on the radio. Seems like a genius. At least the premise of his model seems smart to me. This is an old article but it still sums up his idea more or less. What are some of your thoughts on it? https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/2013/0...mine-obamacare/ He doesn't seem partisan. He's just one of the thousands of pissed doctors but it seems like he actually did something to help people get care. I read through it, the problem with his plan is as follows. You are charged $600 per year for "regular check ups", for many people those check ups are covered at 80-100% so they are actually paying less through their regular insurance. Even worse it is only for "regular check ups" it does not insure you against catastrophic illness or accident, which is what the real point of health insurance is. It doesnt include specialists etc. So as long as you dont ever break a bone, need a mri, need surgery etc, $600 per year covers you. But the second something actually "bad" happens, youll be personally on the hook for all the costs. That is ultimately what health insurance is "insuring" you against, a catastrophic health event that causes you to go personally bk. This Dr's plan would in no way prevent this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Haha i know i know but ignore that. What do you guys think about concierge medicine? Ignore the link if you want and just google it. Paying $50-$150/month for better care sounds great to me. I mean I pay $1500 every two months and that's about to go up when I add a new dependent shortly. I don't even go to the f***ing doctor, ever. The only catch is that you'd still need to carry insurance for catastrophic events. Not sure how to get only catastrophic coverage that doesn't suck and is cheap. BUT...Umbehr's argument on POTUS radio today was that if the country went totally concierge, and got insurance entirely out of routine healthcare, then prices for catastrophic insurance-only would plummet. Insurance companies would still be happy because they'd be making 100% profit on like 90% of policies, much like auto insurance, renters, home-owners etc. To me that's way closer to a free market answer. True competition, WAY better care. Then all the govt has to do is work with the states to fund medicaid. I mean the way we are headed with Obamacare or now GOPcare is implosion. Nobody is going to go to the doctor in 5-10 years except the rich & the poor. The majority are going to grt f***ed and then single payer appears as the nail in the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 You want to follow someone in the medical field, check out dr. Aaron Carroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 09:47 PM) Haha i know i know but ignore that. What do you guys think about concierge medicine? Ignore the link if you want and just google it. Paying $50-$150/month for better care sounds great to me. I mean I pay $1500 every two months and that's about to go up when I add a new dependent shortly. I don't even go to the f***ing doctor, ever. The only catch is that you'd still need to carry insurance for catastrophic events. Not sure how to get only catastrophic coverage that doesn't suck and is cheap. BUT...Umbehr's argument on POTUS radio today was that if the country went totally concierge, and got insurance entirely out of routine healthcare, then prices for catastrophic insurance-only would plummet. Insurance companies would still be happy because they'd be making 100% profit on like 90% of policies, much like auto insurance, renters, home-owners etc. To me that's way closer to a free market answer. True competition, WAY better care. Then all the govt has to do is work with the states to fund medicaid. I mean the way we are headed with Obamacare or now GOPcare is implosion. Nobody is going to go to the doctor in 5-10 years except the rich & the poor. The majority are going to grt f***ed and then single payer appears as the nail in the coffin. The problem is, I dont think its possible. The big ticket items on insurance arent "Dr time" its tests, etc. A test that costs $1k, isnt going to be covered by insurance that costs $600. I mean there is no way to figure out where the fluff/padding comes in, but when it comes to insurance, there is one thing most people agree: the larger the pool, the more spread out the risk, the cheaper insurance should be. Now if Republican's didnt torpedo Obamacare, its possible that this could have been achieved. But when you have 2 parties who are working against each other and not in the best interest of the people, this is what happens. People just need to be honest, if what they want is cheaper/better healthcare, the best answer is not to destroy the current system, but to improve it. Instead of hating on something cause the "other" side came up with it, take the opportunity to improve it. But if Trumpcare gets pushed through, Id expect that in either 2-4 years (depending on how quick people get their first "Trump" insurance) you will see a lot of people in congress who voted for it no longer having positions in the govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-l...m=.8574e70b0402 Trumpism is now getting exposed as a monumental fraud... So the best ideas in the last 48 hours are choking the ACA to death by encouraging health insurance companies to bail and doing everything to sabotage it for two more years...blaming everything on Obamacare/Dems...and cutting off Medicaid in 2017/18 instead of 2020. Brilliant. Edited March 9, 2017 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 So you're telling me they aren't going to magically restore all of the privileges that Obamacare took away from me, huh? Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 09:47 PM) BUT...Umbehr's argument on POTUS radio today was that if the country went totally concierge, and got insurance entirely out of routine healthcare, then prices for catastrophic insurance-only would plummet. Insurance companies would still be happy because they'd be making 100% profit on like 90% of policies, much like auto insurance, renters, home-owners etc. Isn't that similair to what Canada and many other countries do? Everyone pays a little more (via taxes) that goes to pay for the healthcare of everyone. I know that's super simplified but isn't that the gist of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 There are interesting ideas around guaranteeing catastrophe insurance but that is much more effective if we got out of employer provided healthcare and that is too scary for people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 "Noted" "policy wonk" Paul Ryan is giving a speech right now to try to get support for this bill. He said this: Jonathan Cohn ✔ @CitizenCohn Paul Ryan says insurance can't work if healthy must pay more to subsidize the sick. But this is exactly what happens in every employer plan. 11:05 AM - 9 Mar 2017 · Ann Arbor, MI That is literally how insurance works. All insurance works with people who don't make claims subsidizing people who do make claims. That's the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 9, 2017 -> 11:06 AM) There are interesting ideas around guaranteeing catastrophe insurance but that is much more effective if we got out of employer provided healthcare and that is too scary for people. My friends were discussing this a while back, but when did employer based healthcare become the rule? Is that something unions had bargained for? Why isn't it something that people just purchase on their own? Now you are limited to the plans and provider your company chooses. You can't really upgrade it if you wanted to. And if you work a small company, then you are limited to the few plans available on an individual basis. Most companies won't even off individual coverage. When did this all become a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 9, 2017 -> 12:04 PM) My friends were discussing this a while back, but when did employer based healthcare become the rule? Is that something unions had bargained for? Why isn't it something that people just purchase on their own? Now you are limited to the plans and provider your company chooses. You can't really upgrade it if you wanted to. And if you work a small company, then you are limited to the few plans available on an individual basis. Most companies won't even off individual coverage. When did this all become a thing? It started becoming a thing during ww2 IIRC as a way around wage controls, and it got baked into our system good and hard during the 50's and 60's. The benefit that employer-provided plans have over the individual market is that they're potentially bringing a whole lot of people to the table at once, so they have a lot more bargaining power and get much better prices. If I were to try to go buy the same plan I'm currently under on the open market, it'd cost a heck of a lot more than what it costs me + my company to pay for it because I'm not bringing several thousand employees' worth of premiums to the table. Nobody in the world has a healthcare system structured like ours. Most are either a stronger, better version of what the ACA offers (private insurance, heavily subsidized and regulated), single-payer government coverage which is far and away the majority (aka Medicare for all/what Canada does), or a fully nationalized healthcare system (Britain's NHS). Edited March 9, 2017 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 9, 2017 -> 12:11 PM) It started becoming a thing during ww2 IIRC as a way around wage controls, and it got baked into our system good and hard during the 50's and 60's. The benefit that employer-provided plans have over the individual market is that they're potentially bringing a whole lot of people to the table at once, so they have a lot more bargaining power and get much better prices. If I were to try to go buy the same plan I'm currently under on the open market, it'd cost a heck of a lot more than what it costs me + my company to pay for it because I'm not bringing several thousand employees' worth of premiums to the table. Nobody in the world has a healthcare system structured like ours. Most are either a stronger, better version of what the ACA offers (private insurance, heavily subsidized and regulated), single-payer government coverage (aka Medicare for all/what Canada does), or a fully nationalized healthcare system (Britain's NHS). I watched an interview with Trump where he was saying better, cheaper, for everyone, and the interviewer asked him if it would be single payer. He said yes. Just like when he was talking about Obamacare and said his people don't like it and don't use it much, I'm sure he had/has no idea what single payer means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 A comparison of the 15 month process it took to pass the ACA compared to Republicans trying to rush through Trumpcare right now: Republicans’ rushed health bill is everything they said they hated about Obamacare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Bill passed out of committee to the full floor on a part line vote. Sen. Tom Cotton, a conservative Republican, is calling this bill "worse than Obamacare" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 NYT has an analysis of the winners and losers: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03...-care-plan.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Looks like Im going to be getting that loot. Trump going to be paying all my bills. Its like Im on Oprah's favorite things, but this time its Trump and his favorite thing is giving away tax payer dollars. Make it rain Donny, make it rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 09:09 AM) I think the most startling thing out of this bill is the benefits to middle-aged, healthy and urban people over young, elderly, and rural. For a GOP whose base is much more rural, it is weirdly disconnected. Rural hospitals will get crushed. Emergency Rooms will fill up with those who can't pay bills. Emergency treatment will be given to those who cannot afford the after care. Everyone loses. But, you know, Paul Ryan's friends will be happy and f*** Obamacare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 10, 2017 -> 12:42 PM) Emergency Rooms will fill up with those who can't pay bills. Emergency treatment will be given to those who cannot afford the after care. Everyone loses. But, you know, Paul Ryan's friends will be happy and f*** Obamacare. Dont worry, Trumppets are trying to push forward a bill that will allow your employer to force you to undergo genetic testing. LESS RIGHTS FOR ALL, NO PRIVACY, THE REPUBLICAN WAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 This isn't particularly Obamacare related but this was a heartbreaking story of opiod addiction: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/12/us/opioi...-farm.html?_r=0 If you can save it and read it at some point, highly recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Why wont trump put his name on this piece of s***? Never stopped him before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) Why wont trump put his name on this piece of s***? Never stopped him before lol I was thinking about this last weekend, would be a great joke for a late night host. Trump will put his name on the worst products, but "Trumpcare" is so bad, even he doesnt want to be associated with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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