Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 08:42 AM) Chris Sale has no where near the stuff that Prior and Strausburg had at the same ages. Well, I'll half agree on Strasburg because Sale doesn't top 99...but the fact that he's a lefty and your 2 comps are righties changes the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 07:45 AM) Well, I'll half agree on Strasburg because Sale doesn't top 99...but the fact that he's a lefty and your 2 comps are righties changes the game. Um, no it doesn't. At least not with Strasburg. He's got 3++ pitches with freakish velocity. It doesn't matter that he doesn't throw left-handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Does anybody think that maybe they want Sale to have some time with a ML training staff and a year or two of age to fill out that frame before upping his innings total? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 10:32 AM) Does anybody think that maybe they want Sale to have some time with a ML training staff and a year or two of age to fill out that frame before upping his innings total? I'm sure they've come up with a baker's dozen justifications for it...but the "we want to win this year" is by far the most important one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 08:05 AM) Um, no it doesn't. At least not with Strasburg. He's got 3++ pitches with freakish velocity. It doesn't matter that he doesn't throw left-handed. Prior was the same way before he became a punch line. Sale has some great stuff but he isn't in that neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) Prior was the same way before he became a punch line. Sale has some great stuff but he isn't in that neighborhood. I haven't seen his 3rd pitch enough...but I'll still say, last year he was throwing best raw LH fastball/slider I've seen since Liriano-06. Maybe better. Probably better control. If we're comparing him to Stras...average Pitch-FX velocity for Stras last year was 97.6, Sale was 95.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 01:42 PM) For me, it's because Thornton relies solely upon his fastball. It's arguably the best fastball in the entire game, but managers are generally saving their best fastball hitting bench players for the 9th inning because the closer usually has some pretty nasty stuff as well. If Thornton is faced with that on a consistent basis, I think he will be a bit vulnerable (I was going to say exposed, but if you haven't figured out Thornton's game plan by now, you may as well let me hit against him). I agree with this. Thornton reminds me of Bob Howry with much better command. That said, it's difficult to argue with Thornton's performance in the setup role over the past few years. Despite the lack of a good secondary pitch, dude gets results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) I haven't seen his 3rd pitch enough...but I'll still say, last year he was throwing best raw LH fastball/slider I've seen since Liriano-06. Maybe better. Probably better control. If we're comparing him to Stras...average Pitch-FX velocity for Stras last year was 97.6, Sale was 95.9. The difference being Strasburg was a starter and Sale was a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) The difference being Strasburg was a starter and Sale was a reliever. Which has its positives and negatives...could have helped keep Sale's velocity up, but also we didn't get to see Sale's changeup very much, and that was the key pitch for the Stras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 02:26 AM) Soo..... 2008: 36 IP 2009: 89 IP 2010: 103 IP 2011: 65-70 IP? 2012: 170+ IP? Yeah, I can't see a reason to doubt that plan..... EDIT: And yes, I realize they won't allow Sale to go 170 IP if he is a reliever in 2011, and that is kind of my point. He will be behind where he could have been if he had continued to increase his innings every year by being a starter. If the only thing your worried about is innings pitched, they will make it up in the AFL or winter ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) If the only thing your worried about is innings pitched, they will make it up in the AFL or winter ball. I'd be stunned if they sent Sale to the AFL or Winter ball this year. Whoever made that call would be crucified if he hurt his arm pitching in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 10:50 AM) Prior was the same way before he became a punch line. Sale has some great stuff but he isn't in that neighborhood. I think many people forgot how good Prior's stuff was before Dusty destroyed his arm. Before Stras, he was the best college pitcher I've ever seen and followed in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Prior's mechanics were horrible. Steve Stone offered to help adjust Prior's motion before he hurt himself, but got turned down flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 11:15 AM) I'd be stunned if they sent Sale to the AFL or Winter ball this year. Whoever made that call would be crucified if he hurt his arm pitching in the offseason. If they put him in the bullpen this year but want to give him the innings to continue to build him into a starter they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) Prior's mechanics were horrible. Steve Stone offered to help adjust Prior's motion before he hurt himself, but got turned down flat. Prior's mechanics were as perfect as Strasburg's are now. It just depends on whose philosophy you follow. There were many people who stated that Prior had the best mechanics they had ever seen and could repeat it flawlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 02:54 PM) If they put him in the bullpen this year but want to give him the innings to continue to build him into a starter they would. Even with that Pt, they're not going to risk it. Pitchers who have made the big leagues just don't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I think Crain is going to make a case for closer before it's all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Sale has better pure stuff than Prior did and it's not that close imo. Prior had very good stuff but it wasn't completely overwhelming like Stras has or even Chris. What made him so damn special was that he was able to locate that very good stuff pretty much wherever he wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) Prior's mechanics were horrible. Steve Stone offered to help adjust Prior's motion before he hurt himself, but got turned down flat. QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 01:56 PM) Prior's mechanics were as perfect as Strasburg's are now. It just depends on whose philosophy you follow. There were many people who stated that Prior had the best mechanics they had ever seen and could repeat it flawlessly. Prior had pretty much impeccable mechanics. Also think Prior might have used PEDs; his calfs with inhumanely huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 19, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) Prior's mechanics were horrible. Steve Stone offered to help adjust Prior's motion before he hurt himself, but got turned down flat. Prior's mechanics were advertised as "perfect" for years. Edited February 20, 2011 by bucket-of-suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 05:37 PM) Prior's mechanics were advertised as "perfect" for years. I'll never forget the article detailing them, and how perfect they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 03:10 PM) Prior had pretty much impeccable mechanics. Also think Prior might have used PEDs; his calfs with inhumanely huge. The calfs were really long but that was genetics. He was one of the type of people who had long legs and a really short torso. He was all arms and legs. As far as PEDS go,, it didn't look like it to me but at that time in MLB nothing would surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 03:10 PM) Prior had pretty much impeccable mechanics. Also think Prior might have used PEDs; his calfs with inhumanely huge. I think you're being extremely generous and conservative when saying "might". He fell off the cliff when they started testing for PED's and his legs which looked like tree trunks before testing all of a sudden turned into toothpicks, ala Ivan Rodriguez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 20, 2011 -> 06:46 PM) The calfs were really long but that was genetics. He was one of the type of people who had long legs and a really short torso. He was all arms and legs. As far as PEDS go,, it didn't look like it to me but at that time in MLB nothing would surprise me. It's not about the length of his legs. Google him and take a look at his calves. They are absurdly large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sale's schedule to begin spring training-- March 2 - 1 inning March 5 - 1 inning March 8 - 2 innings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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