Quin Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 01:26 PM) What would you trade for a guy with an ERA of 5, a salary around $7 million, and 1.5 years left before he hits FA? If your answer is "Hudson and Holmberg" you're qualified to be the GM of the White Sox, and no other team in the league. Well played Balta, well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) E-Jax to bullpen = epic fail for KW. QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) I don't know, Humber's success is the reason they are in this situation and that could be looked at as a win. First Law of Soxtalk Posting... Management is only held accountable when things go wrong. Everything else is luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 01:58 PM) Fine, but I really doubt that if Hudson had pitched the same here as he has in Arizona that they would move him to the bullpen, the heat would be on Danks much more (but Humber would probably have been moved is my guess). Anyways, it's all speculation and not our situation anyways. Obviously it's all speculation but I think the decision would be much easier. Huddy would be the one to the pen. Danks is not moving to the bullpen. I would almost guarantee he would complain about it and we would have zero chance of ever re-signing him. Not to mention how it would kill his trade value, for multiple reasons. MB isn't going to be moved, Peavy isn't going to be moved so it'd be between Floyd/Humber/Hudson. Floyd has proven to be a solid 3-4 and would not go anywhere. Humber still would be the best pitcher to date and would likely stay. So actually, if Hudson were here over Jackson the short term decision of who would move to the pen would actually be a much easier one for management to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) Obviously it's all speculation but I think the decision would be much easier. Huddy would be the one to the pen. Danks is not moving to the bullpen. I would almost guarantee he would complain about it and we would have zero chance of ever re-signing him. Not to mention how it would kill his trade value, for multiple reasons. MB isn't going to be moved, Peavy isn't going to be moved so it'd be between Floyd/Humber/Hudson. Floyd has proven to be a solid 3-4 and would not go anywhere. Humber still would be the best pitcher to date and would likely stay. So actually, if Hudson were here over Jackson the short term decision of who would move to the pen would actually be a much easier one for management to make. Actually it would be even more likely to keep the 6 man rotation, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 07:12 PM) If Jackson ends up going to the pen, it's just one more piece of evidence that KW needs to be replaced. Probably. But this year, he's the likely candidate to go to pen with Phil pitching so well. With our luck, he'll go to the pen and Humber will start getting rocked. Then we'll bring Jackson back to rotation and he'll get rocked. On and on. I actually am falling in love with the 6 man rotation. Edited June 1, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 04:38 PM) I actually am falling in love with the 6 man rotation. Must not be a fan of Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 If they're hesitant to move Jackson to the pen just because it will look bad considering the trade last year, that's not a good reason not to do it. Danks is an established White Sox starter. He has 6 quality starts this season. Jackson has 4. I'm not against riding out the 6-man as long as they can, but if anyone should be going to the pen it's Jackson. To me, it's not even a hard decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) If Jackson ends up going to the pen, it's just one more piece of evidence that KW needs to be replaced. He would be going to the pen because four starters are doing their job and the 5th is a leftie. Jackson out of the pen could be as nasty as anyone in any bullpen in all of baseball. It also saves his arm a little and is insurance should another pitcher need a rest. If he was posting Danks like numbers I would agreee with you but he has the best stuff suited for the bullpen. A pen of Jackson, Crain, Thorton, Sale and Santos if they are all playing to their potential which they appear to be headed, is sick. You put Danks in that mix and all you have a leftie that is inconcsistent and can be hit by good RHH. I like Jackson and am not going to look at the deal last year as anything bigger than it is. He has an arm that can have success in the bullpen soemthing none of the other five starters has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) E-Jax to bullpen = epic fail for KW. Meanwhile, Dan Hudson is helping that D'Backs team to first place in the NL West. I never understood how Edwin Jackson was worth a top 100 prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) Meanwhile, Dan Hudson is helping that D'Backs team to first place in the NL West. I never understood how Edwin Jackson was worth a top 100 prospect. These are some excellent and original thoughts. I don't understand why this trade hasn't been talked about more. Maybe we should start a new thread and get people's opinions on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I like his attitude, to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 04:17 PM) These are some excellent and original thoughts. I don't understand why this trade hasn't been talked about more. Maybe we should start a new thread and get people's opinions on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 For Jackson, I think his effectiveness out of the pen would depend on what role he's put in. I think they would be wasting him in long relief. If he's accepting of his role, and it sounds like he is, he has the stuff to be a Josh Bard-type pitcher out there. I think he would be lights out in the 8th inning. Of course by doing that, you're knocking everyone else into different roles but I think they'd adjust quickly. Long man- Pena, Ohman 7th-Crain, Thornton/Sale 8th-Jackson, Thornton/Sale CL-Santos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The Jackson trade was the dumbest s*** I have ever seen, even in video games this trade would be impossible to pull off (White Sox getting offered that trade would have rejected). It still mind boggles me thinking about this trade. We gave up Hudson who so far this season is equivilant to Jackson performance if not better, and also Holmberg who has a ~3.5 era in A league and is only 19 years old. It is just ridiculous what KW was thinking. And Jackson had a 5 era at the time of the trade. Could some1 just explain to how this trade even happen. Hudson was involved in talks to acquire Prince Fielder and we settled with Edwin. Depressing indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a b****? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a b****? You asked for people's opinions on the matter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 You guys never cease to amaze me...you really and truly do not. You want to pick and pick and pick at anything you possibly can...but you're not going to give the guy credit for finding Humber off the scrap heap and turning him into the best pitcher in our rotation through the first third of the season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) You guys never cease to amaze me...you really and truly do not. You want to pick and pick and pick at anything you possibly can...but you're not going to give the guy credit for finding Humber off the scrap heap and turning him into the best pitcher in our rotation through the first third of the season! Problem so far shack is that a team shouldn't find one of the best steals of the offseason but still be well below .500. Or at least they shouldnt demand credit for the one thing they did right if everything else went wrong. That's like destroying the world economy by wrecking your entire bank but then taking home a billion dollar bonus because you also managed to convince the government to bail you out, and that'd just be nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 07:24 PM) Problem so far shack is that a team shouldn't find one of the best steals of the offseason but still be well below .500. Or at least they shouldnt demand credit for the one thing they did right if everything else went wrong. That's like destroying the world economy by wrecking your entire bank but then taking home a billion dollar bonus because you also managed to convince the government to bail you out, and that'd just be nuts. I'm not justifying the performance of the team thus far. But we're starting to see what we have here and I think in the end we're going to like it. Every GM makes some bad decisions. I have no problem with everyone discussing those bad decisions. All I ask is that you put those in context of the good decisions. It seems like we want to ignore every good deal Kenny makes and just rail on him for the ones that haven't worked out. Take Lillibridge, for instance. Say he turns into the player he is starting to look like, for instance, as chw42 compares him to, Ben Zobrist. How does that Javy Vazquez deal look then? Edited June 2, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) I'm not justifying the performance of the team thus far. But we're starting to see what we have here and I think in the end we're going to like it. Every GM makes some bad decisions. I have no problem with everyone discussing those bad decisions. All I ask is that you put those in context of the good decisions. It seems like we want to ignore every good deal Kenny makes and just rail on him for the ones that haven't worked out. Take Lillibridge, for instance. Say he turns into the player he is starting to look like, for instance, as chw42 compares him to, Ben Zobrist. How does that Javy Vazquez deal look then? Only fair way to evaluate those deals in aggregate is wins and losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 07:44 PM) Only fair way to evaluate those deals in aggregate is wins and losses. Ok, so let's just throw out all the discussion of transactions and see where we end up at the end of the year. I have a feeling it's going to be better than it is now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 1, 2011 -> 09:46 PM) Ok, so let's just throw out all the discussion of transactions and see where we end up at the end of the year. I have a feeling it's going to be better than it is now... I'm in full agreement with that. Its either the central or the manager et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That Javy Vazquez trade looks better and better. This new power hitter Lillibridge is really showing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 2, 2011 -> 01:38 AM) That Javy Vazquez trade looks better and better. This new power hitter Lillibridge is really showing something. Not to mention Tyler Flowers seems to have come back to life. He could still be a major league catcher yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 2, 2011 -> 08:41 AM) Not to mention Tyler Flowers seems to have come back to life. He could still be a major league catcher yet. He remains the key part of that trade. We need to continue infusing the roster with cost-controlled players and we don't have many prospects that could be ready in the next year or two. Viciedo will be in a corner spot next year, which will help a lot. If Flowers could take Castro's role next and then the starting spot in 2013, that would be huge for our long-term success. Having Beckham, Morel, Viciedo, and Flowers in the everyday lineup would give us a nice set of cost-controlled players to supplement some of the bigger contracts we'll still have on the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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