Balta1701 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) Ozzie and Walker gone make it very possible that several players could have improved seasons under the more stable personality and calming influence of Ventura as manager. I think Dunn could be one of those guys and I believe the Sox will compete. I'm hoping for a few more trades and a few lower key free agent signings, but I already am more optimistic now than I was at the end of the season last year. Even with that though, we've already lost some major contributions from last year's team. Between Buehrle, Quentin, and Santos, that's a full 7.5+ WAR we need to replace just to get back to where we were last year. Yeah, there are guys who can step into some of those roles...but let's be clear...we need an enormous number of improvements and adequate performances from those guys' replacements for the Sox to be able to push being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 03:16 PM) Even with that though, we've already lost some major contributions from last year's team. Between Buehrle, Quentin, and Santos, that's a full 7.5+ WAR we need to replace just to get back to where we were last year. Yeah, there are guys who can step into some of those roles...but let's be clear...we need an enormous number of improvements and adequate performances from those guys' replacements for the Sox to be able to push being competitive. I just feel several players that were considered "weak mentally" or "underachieved" will suddenly thrive under someone that is more steady and less of a macho egomaniac. I expect Beckham, Rios, Dunn, Peavy, and Morel to perform better. I expect Viciedo to have at least 80-90% of the combined production that Quentin plus his injury replacement right fielder could be expected to have. I expect Reed help the pen and somebody will come out of nowhere and step up. Look, there are many ifs that have to happen, but by the end of last year I was beyond disgusted. For me, the more changes the better! Appreciate 2005 from Ozzie. When Ozzie started hurting the team with his KW rivalry crap, I was done with him and the players had to have been demoralized by that as well. Wish I could remember which game, but for me the ultimate example of why I am happy that there is a new manager involved Dunn. Less than 2 outs and runner on third and the Sox need one to tie. Lillibridge was due up. Ozzie pinch hit Dunn who was 1. Striking out at record pace 2. Hitting well below 200 3. AGAINST a LEFTY and Dunn had ZERO hits vs. lefties. Dunn obviously struck out and that is his failure. The Sox lost and that was Ozzie's failure. What must have been going through Dunn's, Lillibridge's, and the rest of the team's minds at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 04:16 PM) Even with that though, we've already lost some major contributions from last year's team. Between Buehrle, Quentin, and Santos, that's a full 7.5+ WAR we need to replace just to get back to where we were last year. Yeah, there are guys who can step into some of those roles...but let's be clear...we need an enormous number of improvements and adequate performances from those guys' replacements for the Sox to be able to push being competitive. Sale, Dayan, and Reed will do an adequate job. Sale wont give you the 200 innings like Mark but we have a few guys now that can step in late in the season if Sales arm doesnt hold up a full year. I think the season rides on Adam Dunns shoulders, if he is the Dunn of old we compete, no question. Unless the fill ins in the bullpen dont pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'm not ruling out the Sox being competitive next year...I just want you guys to realize how far away this team is right now. Right now, with what we've lost, we're starting as like a 72 win team. We need another what, 20 wins before we're going to be a legitimately competitive team? I see that there's lots of room for improvement, you don't have to list the guys, and the only guys who might take a step back are Konerko and Thornton because most everyone simply can't even play worse, but understand this...we could see legit improvement from 10 different guys on this roster and still be a .500 team. Adam Dunn alone can't be the key, we need it up and down the list. We could see Beckham, Dunn, and Morel on the All Star Team somehow and still be an 85 win team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 05:12 PM) I'm not ruling out the Sox being competitive next year...I just want you guys to realize how far away this team is right now. Right now, with what we've lost, we're starting as like a 72 win team. We need another what, 20 wins before we're going to be a legitimately competitive team? I see that there's lots of room for improvement, you don't have to list the guys, and the only guys who might take a step back are Konerko and Thornton because most everyone simply can't even play worse, but understand this...we could see legit improvement from 10 different guys on this roster and still be a .500 team. Adam Dunn alone can't be the key, we need it up and down the list. We could see Beckham, Dunn, and Morel on the All Star Team somehow and still be an 85 win team. What makes you think that? I know we have a lot of question marks on this team but i mean c'mon we won 88 games in 2010 with Mark kotsay as our DH. If Dunns Dunn and by Dunn i mean even 35/80 as his power numbers then i think we contend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If we make the playoffs, Kenny has all the right to go on TV and tell Ozzie to suck it. Because the Marlins aren't making it, at least not this year. Not with The Phillies, Braves, and Nats if they get Fielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sale and Peavy's performances will determine if the 2012 team can compete for a division title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) I'm not ruling out the Sox being competitive next year...I just want you guys to realize how far away this team is right now. You are right and I am not running to Vegas to pick the Sox to win it all. I am hoping for a team that is worth watching and heading the right direction. Besides, that brings up one more reason the Sox will compete. The pressure is off and expectations are low. Under the radar again! How's that for 2012 slogan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydude14 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 05:47 PM) If we make the playoffs, Kenny has all the right to go on TV and tell Ozzie to suck it. Because the Marlins aren't making it, at least not this year. Not with The Phillies, Braves, and Nats if they get Fielder. I see the 2 (TWO!) NL Wild Cards coming from the NL East, personally. And I think the Fish can get it done, although Fielder to Washington would make the race more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (ROC Sox Fan @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 08:39 PM) I see the 2 (TWO!) NL Wild Cards coming from the NL East, personally. And I think the Fish can get it done, although Fielder to Washington would make the race more interesting. Next year is still 1 WC, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Nobody's expecting 90 wins, clearly. But 74-86 seems a pretty realistic range, as we stand now. You look back on last year, only Lillibridge/Konerko/Humber and Santos for most of the season performed above expectations. We all know that Peavy (if healthy) and Sale have a ton of ability...you have Dunn/Rios/Beckham, Morel hopefully playing the way he ended the year for a full season, Viciedo getting his first opportunity to play everyday, as well as the injection of power/speed from DeAza...just look at the DBacks coming into 2011 and how well that team gelled under Gibson. Is it likely we make the playoffs, hell no! Did most of us realistically expect Buehrle back? Probably not. Overall though, when all the dust clears, you can never underestimate a White Sox team that's being counted out from the beginning to rise up and compete. It has happened time and time again over history, just like the overly hyped teams in preseason have usually fallen flat on their faces. Could 80% of the roster suck eggs again this year? Sure. Anything's possible. Let's just wait and see how serious they are...if they get Cespedes, a lot of the optimism that has worn off around this team the past 3 years will be back. If they don't, we'll just have be a bit more patient, which many of us were willing to do if only the Sox would present a cogent long-term strategic vision for the future of the franchise and the direction it is headed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydude14 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 09:40 PM) Next year is still 1 WC, right? We will know by March 1st, unless I have missed something. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...lb&c_id=mlb The long-discussed expansion of Major League Baseball's playoffs with the addition of two more Wild Card teams and a play-in game could be incorporated as soon as the 2012 season. And now that the owners and the MLB Players Association have announced a new five-year Basic Agreement, Commissioner Bud Selig has a date etched in stone for determining whether to implement it next season or in 2013: March 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 04:52 PM) Sale and Peavy's performances will determine if the 2012 team can compete for a division title. And whether Marty gets his wish and Brent Lillibridge is the starting SS on Opening Day. Mr. 34, you're still in favor of trading Thornton, right? But not your buddy AJ, I think. Ond would assume you also want to keep Konerko...what about Crain and Floyd? Deal or stand pat until July 31st? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hmm... looks like Farrellball took the Floyd post off his blog. http://www.farrellbaseball.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 09:10 PM) Hmm... looks like Farrellball took the Floyd post off his blog. http://www.farrellbaseball.blogspot.com/ Did he ever post about it? I checked his website occasionally and never saw anything posted regarding Gavin. Edit: If you are talking about the post on the twitter timeline of his site, it was merely pushed off by newer tweets. Edited January 8, 2012 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 09:26 PM) Did he ever post about it? I checked his website occasionally and never saw anything posted regarding Gavin. Edit: If you are talking about the post on the twitter timeline of his site, it was merely pushed off by newer tweets. Could be that I was thinking another Jays blog that was discussing it. Tough to keep all those Canadians straight... eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 08:45 PM) And whether Marty gets his wish and Brent Lillibridge is the starting SS on Opening Day. Mr. 34, you're still in favor of trading Thornton, right? But not your buddy AJ, I think. Ond would assume you also want to keep Konerko...what about Crain and Floyd? Deal or stand pat until July 31st? As the team stands now Sale and Peavy's performances will determine if they compete in the AL Central. This has not been a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 It will take much more than Peavy and Sale being better than projected for this team to compete for the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 On a 2012 team full of questions, Sale and Peavy are the most important ones. If they fail they won't compete in the central. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 For our team to compete for the central, 6 out of our starting 9 would need to have career years or close to it. (Beckham, Ramirez, Morel, Rios, De Aza and Viciedo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 09:40 AM) For our team to compete for the central, 6 out of our starting 9 would need to have career years or close to it. (Beckham, Ramirez, Morel, Rios, De Aza and Viciedo) Given their careers to this point that's not saying much. The AL Central is no behemoth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Didn't we say the same thing in late july/early August? Then DET obliterated the rest of the division and whipped Santos twice, leading to Marty's call to deal him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 No matter what happens with this thread, I do think Floyd gets traded before spring training. There have not been any hard denials that Floyd will be traded by KW or the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 10:34 AM) On a 2012 team full of questions, Sale and Peavy are the most important ones. If they fail they won't compete in the central. The current roster doesn't even project to be a .500 team. A failure from any number of guys ruins our already small chance at being competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 5, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) Which, honestly, I'm fine with. A couple people around here have pointed out that this "rebuild" doesn't look like it needs to last more than a couple seasons because our big-money commitments will expire. I will gladly watch the kids lose 80-90 for a couple years to set this thing onto the right course. You have absolutely no guarantees this rebuilding is going to somehow turn the Sox around for the better. You only have to look to Madison Avenue and recall this owner's last attempt at rebuilding. Took over a decade for the Bulls to be viable again - and that was with near capacity crowds every game. He won't be getting that at the Cell. But Sox fans are comfortable with prolonged periods of mediocrity - to the delight of this owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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