Peavy ready for bounce back season

[SI1020]

The thing the Sox did right during the 2005 season was beat up on the AL Central. They were 30 over .500 vs the divison 6 over vs. the NL and were .500 against the AL East and AL West. They have to get back to beating up their Central Division foes.

That is of course correct. They also came out of the gate strong and built enough of a cushion so that they could survive 2 lousy months of baseball. I never understood why Ozzie was so successful having his team ready his first few years and such a failure at it for the most part the last 5 years.

[southsider2k5]

That is of course correct. They also came out of the gate strong and built enough of a cushion so that they could survive 2 lousy months of baseball. I never understood why Ozzie was so successful having his team ready his first few years and such a failure at it for the most part the last 5 years.

 

Listening to the player comments after Ozzie was fired, it sounds like they tuned him out eventually.

[NorthSideSox72]

I can't believe people are dissecting this argument about 50's vs 00's. The main point seemed obvious - the idea that KW needs to make up for a bad DECADE is ridiculous on its face. His decade of baseball resulted in a championship and either 1 or 2 more division wins, depending on how you slice it up, no to mention only one season worse than 4 games under .500. He's had either the best decade for the Sox in 50-60 years, or 90 years. Take whichever you'd like. Point is, KW has had 2-3 bad seasons and some bad trades, not a bad decade.

 

[Dick Allen]

I can't believe people are dissecting this argument about 50's vs 00's. The main point seemed obvious - the idea that KW needs to make up for a bad DECADE is ridiculous on its face. His decade of baseball resulted in a championship and either 1 or 2 more division wins, depending on how you slice it up, no to mention only one season worse than 4 games under .500. He's had either the best decade for the Sox in 50-60 years, or 90 years. Take whichever you'd like. Point is, KW has had 2-3 bad seasons and some bad trades, not a bad decade.

Tbe White Sox haven't historically been tbe gold standard in regards to winning. Thank God for the Cubs or they would be in the photo for the poster child of the opposite. KW won a WS so having a bad decade is wrong. It is time though to put to rest that stringing together 82 to 88 win seasons and not making tbe playoffs the way the divisions are now set up is a success. KW is making excuses now.Read the quote at the bottom of ss2k5s posts then read his quotes at the end of last season patting himself on the back for building teams that spend time during the season in first place. Its time KW leave.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Tbe White Sox haven't historically been tbe gold standard in regards to winning. Thank God for the Cubs or they would be in the photo for the poster child of the opposite. KW won a WS so having a bad decade is wrong. It is time though to put to rest that stringing together 82 to 88 win seasons and not making tbe playoffs the way the divisions are now set up is a success. KW is making excuses now.Read the quote at the bottom of ss2k5s posts then read his quotes at the end of last season patting himself on the back for building teams that spend time during the season in first place. Its time KW leave.

 

I agree with all of this.

[Quin]

Tbe White Sox haven't historically been tbe gold standard in regards to winning. Thank God for the Cubs or they would be in the photo for the poster child of the opposite. KW won a WS so having a bad decade is wrong. It is time though to put to rest that stringing together 82 to 88 win seasons and not making tbe playoffs the way the divisions are now set up is a success. KW is making excuses now.Read the quote at the bottom of ss2k5s posts then read his quotes at the end of last season patting himself on the back for building teams that spend time during the season in first place. Its time KW leave.

 

This.

 

I also want to point out that KW would be regarded as well as Theo if the Cubs hadn't been around, as he would have broken the longest "curse" in baseball.

[Milkman delivers]

I can't believe people are dissecting this argument about 50's vs 00's. The main point seemed obvious - the idea that KW needs to make up for a bad DECADE is ridiculous on its face. His decade of baseball resulted in a championship and either 1 or 2 more division wins, depending on how you slice it up, no to mention only one season worse than 4 games under .500. He's had either the best decade for the Sox in 50-60 years, or 90 years. Take whichever you'd like. Point is, KW has had 2-3 bad seasons and some bad trades, not a bad decade.

 

I believe Schueler was the GM in 2000, so you only have division titles in 2005 and 2008. Speaks a lot more to the legacy of mediocrity of the Sox.

[LittleHurt05]

I can't believe people are dissecting this argument about 50's vs 00's. The main point seemed obvious - the idea that KW needs to make up for a bad DECADE is ridiculous on its face. His decade of baseball resulted in a championship and either 1 or 2 more division wins, depending on how you slice it up, no to mention only one season worse than 4 games under .500. He's had either the best decade for the Sox in 50-60 years, or 90 years. Take whichever you'd like. Point is, KW has had 2-3 bad seasons and some bad trades, not a bad decade.

 

When you have one of the top two payrolls in the division year after year, I think more than two division titles in a decade should be expected. Just because the Sox were arguably the least successful MLB franchise from 1920-2000, doesn't mean KW should be held to lower standards.

[hogan873]

When you have one of the top two payrolls in the division year after year, I think more than two division titles in a decade should be expected. Just because the Sox were arguably the least successful MLB franchise from 1920-2000, doesn't mean KW should be held to lower standards.

Agreed. Also worth considering is that fact that the Sox play in the less than stellar AL Central. Yes, Detroit and Minnesota have been good off and on, but as someone mentioned before, the Sox were successful in 2005 due in part to the fact that they beat up on the other AL Central teams. It doesn't do much good for the Sox to play well against the AL East (ha!) if only to curl up in the corner and sob quietly when they play the Twins, Royals, Indians, and Tigers.

 

Many of us (myself included) can and have argued that 2011 was due in large part to a handful of players having terrible seasons. That's not necessarily KW's fault. However, changes could have and should have been made, and they weren't. KW's biggest fault in 2011 in my opinion was letting Ozzie do what he did. Even after publicly saying those performing poorly will sit, Ozzie played them anyway. And KW didn't do anything.

[NorthSideSox72]

Tbe White Sox haven't historically been tbe gold standard in regards to winning. Thank God for the Cubs or they would be in the photo for the poster child of the opposite. KW won a WS so having a bad decade is wrong. It is time though to put to rest that stringing together 82 to 88 win seasons and not making tbe playoffs the way the divisions are now set up is a success. KW is making excuses now.Read the quote at the bottom of ss2k5s posts then read his quotes at the end of last season patting himself on the back for building teams that spend time during the season in first place. Its time KW leave.

I don't disagree with any of this. The bolded was my whole point (along with the 2 division wins), and the rest... isn't really related to what I was saying, but I agree with it.

 

[southsider2k5]

Tbe White Sox haven't historically been tbe gold standard in regards to winning. Thank God for the Cubs or they would be in the photo for the poster child of the opposite. KW won a WS so having a bad decade is wrong. It is time though to put to rest that stringing together 82 to 88 win seasons and not making tbe playoffs the way the divisions are now set up is a success. KW is making excuses now.Read the quote at the bottom of ss2k5s posts then read his quotes at the end of last season patting himself on the back for building teams that spend time during the season in first place. Its time KW leave.

 

If by "making excuses", you mean "offering to resign", then yes.

[Dick Allen]

If by "making excuses", you mean "offering to resign", then yes.

He never offered to resign. He offered to take a lesser role, and I imagine the way his contract is set up, it doesn't mean taking a paycut. He knew JR would say no. He's a phony that way. He also said last year if his bump in payroll didn't result in more wins and higher attendance, his employment was on the line. All false, soundbite garbage that he knows isn't true. Just like you finally came around and realized Ozzie really wasn't the baseball God you assumed for years, you will realize someday that even Joe Cowley isn't totally wrong about KW. He's not objective or fair, but he's not totally wrong about this particular subject. There is a lot of phoniness with KW. A lot.

[southsider2k5]

He never offered to resign. He offered to take a lesser role, and I imagine the way his contract is set up, it doesn't mean taking a paycut. He knew JR would say no. He's a phony that way. He also said last year if his bump in payroll didn't result in more wins and higher attendance, his employment was on the line. All false, soundbite garbage that he knows isn't true. Just like you finally came around and realized Ozzie really wasn't the baseball God you assumed for years, you will realize someday that even Joe Cowley isn't totally wrong about KW. He's not objective or fair, but he's not totally wrong about this particular subject. There is a lot of phoniness with KW. A lot.

 

Aka, it doesn't fit the agenda.

[Dick Allen]

Aka, it doesn't fit the agenda.

Just read the quote at the bottom of your posts and tell me who KW is answering to? He dodges the press, Paul Sullivan even commented on that, and he covers the Cubs. He dodges fans at Soxfest. He only did one seminar on Friday., and ran away from anyone who didn't want to pay $500. If the Sox win, he's there everyday taking compliments like its nobody's business, giving some false modesty. He should concentrate on Market, I've never been there, but I heard its pretty good, regardless of what Oney thinks. (I think Oney was mad he was given a bill) Let Hahn take over now. He'll always have his ring and will get his due for it. Its time to move on. Ozzie acted like a child and needed to go. KW didn't act much better.

[iamshack]

He never offered to resign. He offered to take a lesser role, and I imagine the way his contract is set up, it doesn't mean taking a paycut. He knew JR would say no. He's a phony that way. He also said last year if his bump in payroll didn't result in more wins and higher attendance, his employment was on the line. All false, soundbite garbage that he knows isn't true. Just like you finally came around and realized Ozzie really wasn't the baseball God you assumed for years, you will realize someday that even Joe Cowley isn't totally wrong about KW. He's not objective or fair, but he's not totally wrong about this particular subject. There is a lot of phoniness with KW. A lot.

You know, if you're just negative about everything, it's much easier, since you only have to admit you're wrong when things are going well. Must be nice.

 

Additionally, I'd love to hear the s*** you'd say if you always had to comment to the press about things outside of your control. You'd be made to sound the fool or phony if I bothered to put together your greatest hits from soxtalk over the years as well.

[caulfield12]

That's where Greg enters the conversation.

 

Ozzie, love him or hate him, comes across as more "real" or more "genuine," he's the guy you would actually prefer to eat at Applebee's or Chili's with, or have a beer with, etc.

 

KW just has that aloof attitude, that cockiness and arrogance...it reminds me of the the comment that came out about not caring about the "really rich" and "really poor" people from the primary season.

 

KW doesn't care about the average Sox fan or message board poster at all. He should be a little more in tune with the fanbase, IMO. He always seems to put his foot in his mouth, and everyone's tired of his "crying poor" act and blaming the fans for not supporting the lousy product which he produced and is responsible for.

Not that Hahn is any less arrogant or overconfident or full of himself, they both have that quality, which is probably why they get along so well together, as long as Hahn "stays in his place." Ozzie didn't know how to do that....the last 6 years have been more about proving who's the most important/integral/critical to the organization, Ozzie or Kenny.

 

I've never loved Williams the person, but I at least have to accord him respect for what he did in 2005. But that's where it ends...and six years is now quite a long time ago. The clock is ticking....as Maximus says to Commodus in Gladiator, "the time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end."

 

 

[Dick Allen]

You know, if you're just negative about everything, it's much easier, since you only have to admit you're wrong when things are going well. Must be nice.

 

Additionally, I'd love to hear the s*** you'd say if you always had to comment to the press about things outside of your control. You'd be made to sound the fool or phony if I bothered to put together your greatest hits from soxtalk over the years as well.

Put them together. I've always been consistent.

 

Why wouldn't he talk to White Sox fans at Soxfest? If he's available when things are so rosy, why isn't he available when things aren't so rosy? I'm not negative about everything, in fact, I'm far more postive about many Sox things than many people here. I don't like KW, that's true, but I don't knock his every move, in fact I have given him praise sometimes. I don't like reading Cowley slamming him every chance he gets with the same thing, but KW is a phony, and he's had a long run.

[caulfield12]

If Tebow and Brady can do it, KW can face the fans at SoxFest for more than one session. For the prices they charge, isn't that part of the intrigue of SoxFest, the possibility you might get your moment in the sun to put him on the hot seat and momentarily hold him accountable in a public setting?

 

How many sessions did he do after the 2005 and 2008 seasons?

 

I'm sure there is a discrepancy. If anything...KW, Boyer, those guys should be even more visible...Rongey, etc., not disappearing from the face of the Earth.

[Balta1701]

If Tebow and Brady can do it

Huh?

[Dick Allen]

Huh?

They faced the music when things didn't go so well.

[Balta1701]

They faced the music when things didn't go so well.

So, KW's wife should come out and start ripping Ozzie's performance?

 

Actually, I might be kinda into watching that...

[southsider2k5]

Just read the quote at the bottom of your posts and tell me who KW is answering to? He dodges the press, Paul Sullivan even commented on that, and he covers the Cubs. He dodges fans at Soxfest. He only did one seminar on Friday., and ran away from anyone who didn't want to pay $500. If the Sox win, he's there everyday taking compliments like its nobody's business, giving some false modesty. He should concentrate on Market, I've never been there, but I heard its pretty good, regardless of what Oney thinks. (I think Oney was mad he was given a bill) Let Hahn take over now. He'll always have his ring and will get his due for it. Its time to move on. Ozzie acted like a child and needed to go. KW didn't act much better.

 

Kenny answered to Jerry. He offered to resign. The rest of it is all your spin on why you hate Kenny.

[Dick Allen]

So, KW's wife should come out and start ripping Ozzie's performance?

 

Actually, I might be kinda into watching that...

 

KW's ex might take Ozzie's side.

 

I wouldn't mind KW's sons taking Oney to the woodshed.

[Dick Allen]

Kenny answered to Jerry. He offered to resign. The rest of it is all your spin on why you hate Kenny.

He didn't offer to resign. He offered to become a seven figure a year scout.

[southsider2k5]

That's where Greg enters the conversation.

 

Ozzie, love him or hate him, comes across as more "real" or more "genuine," he's the guy you would actually prefer to eat at Applebee's or Chili's with, or have a beer with, etc.

 

KW just has that aloof attitude, that cockiness and arrogance...it reminds me of the the comment that came out about not caring about the "really rich" and "really poor" people from the primary season.

 

KW doesn't care about the average Sox fan or message board poster at all. He should be a little more in tune with the fanbase, IMO. He always seems to put his foot in his mouth, and everyone's tired of his "crying poor" act and blaming the fans for not supporting the lousy product which he produced and is responsible for.

Not that Hahn is any less arrogant or overconfident or full of himself, they both have that quality, which is probably why they get along so well together, as long as Hahn "stays in his place." Ozzie didn't know how to do that....the last 6 years have been more about proving who's the most important/integral/critical to the organization, Ozzie or Kenny.

 

I've never loved Williams the person, but I at least have to accord him respect for what he did in 2005. But that's where it ends...and six years is now quite a long time ago. The clock is ticking....as Maximus says to Commodus in Gladiator, "the time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end."

 

This is where we differ. It isn't Kenny's job to care about the fan base. That is the kind of stuff that leads to him outbidding the Marlins for Buehrle even though it is dumb. Kenny's job is to care about the product on the field, just like it was for Ozzie. Maybe if Ozzie spent less time trying to show Kenny up and giving out cute quips to his buddies in the media/twitter/facebook/his website, for the fans to eat up, things would be different now.

 

As for the silly arrogance thing, name me a GM that is modest. No GM should be. It is an ego driven job. I don't want my GM doubting himself, that's for sure.

 

It is Brooks Boyer and his staff's job to care about the fan base, not the GM or the Manager.