2012-2013 NFL Thread

[GoodAsGould]

With the injury rate in the nfl you always draft the best player available regardless of position. However with the state of the Bears O-line it's really difficult not to take the best tackle available.

 

I buy that in baseball draft, take best player or highest rated pitcher on your board, but in the NFL and especially first couple of rounds you do need to look into your needs unless someone comes along that isn't passable.

[ptatc]

I buy that in baseball draft, take best player or highest rated pitcher on your board, but in the NFL and especially first couple of rounds you do need to look into your needs unless someone comes along that isn't passable.

I think it's more important in football due to injuries and the relatively short average career of the players.

[iamshack]

In football though, oftentimes you are looking to slot these players into your lineup within a year or two. In baseball, you are projecting out several years in most cases.

 

It is much easier to address needs on a short-term basis than on a long-term basis, because you are not trying to predict the future as much.

[Rowand44]

In football though, oftentimes you are looking to slot these players into your lineup within a year or two. In baseball, you are projecting out several years in most cases.

 

It is much easier to address needs on a short-term basis than on a long-term basis, because you are not trying to predict the future as much.

Ya exactly. Drafting by need in baseball makes no sense, drafting by need in football is essential.

[Chisoxfn]

Bears to interview (or have interviewed, depending on the source) Saints OC Carmichael. Worked with Brees in San Diego and called plays this year. Took over as OC in 2009 or 2010.

[knightni]

NFL 2014: Clownin' for Clowney

[GoodAsGould]

Bears to interview (or have interviewed, depending on the source) Saints OC Carmichael. Worked with Brees in San Diego and called plays this year. Took over as OC in 2009 or 2010.

 

Another guy in a situation where the head coach is the mastermind behind the offense, I don't want any part of the Saints/Packers OC.

[Jake]

Another guy in a situation where the head coach is the mastermind behind the offense, I don't want any part of the Saints/Packers OC.

 

I'm generally with you on that point. He could be great, but his experience is far less convincing given their HC.

[Kyyle23]

I'm generally with you on that point. He could be great, but his experience is far less convincing given their HC.

 

Hell, not only their HC but their QB. Brees is a machine.

[iamshack]

Hell, not only their HC but their QB. Brees is a machine.

Good point. One of the things Emery stressed in his presser was that he wants a coach to sell him on how he can win with THIS roster, and obviously that means he wants to hear how we can be successful with Jay Cutler, and not necessarily Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning. It's almost a catch-22 though, because a lot of the coordinators Emery will interview will be from teams with elite quarterbacks.

[Kyyle23]

Good point. One of the things Emery stressed in his presser was that he wants a coach to sell him on how he can win with THIS roster, and obviously that means he wants to hear how we can be successful with Jay Cutler, and not necessarily Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning. It's almost a catch-22 though, because a lot of the coordinators Emery will interview will be from teams with elite quarterbacks.

 

That is one good sell that McCoy has. He made it work with Orton, Tebow and Manning.

[DukeNukeEm]

Or Gruden who turned Rich Gannon into an MVP and Brad Johnson into a SB-winner and Pro Bowler.

[cabiness42]

Good point. One of the things Emery stressed in his presser was that he wants a coach to sell him on how he can win with THIS roster, and obviously that means he wants to hear how we can be successful with Jay Cutler, and not necessarily Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning. It's almost a catch-22 though, because a lot of the coordinators Emery will interview will be from teams with elite quarterbacks.

 

I'm not saying Cutler is in a league with the others you've mentioned, but with even an average offensive line and the RB/WR Cutler has, he's plenty capable of putting up some great numbers.

 

You stick Brees, Rodgers, or Manning behind the Bears OL and they probably don't even survive the season.

[DukeNukeEm]

I'm not saying Cutler is in a league with the others you've mentioned, but with even an average offensive line and the RB/WR Cutler has, he's plenty capable of putting up some great numbers.

 

You stick Brees, Rodgers, or Manning behind the Bears OL and they probably don't even survive the season.

Rodgers is playing behind a pretty bad group in Green Bay. Not Bears bad, but pretty damn bad.

[Balta1701]

Rodgers is playing behind a pretty bad group in Green Bay. Not Bears bad, but pretty damn bad.

I think that the Bears have to accept that at this point in his career, one of Cutler's flaws, perhaps his biggest flaw, is how he deals with pressure. He has no ability whatsoever to do so. He can't avoid it, he doesn't use his feet, his body has been made into a concussion prone one, his decision making is slow, and his arm motion is slow, all of which combine to generate extra pressure if the line doesn't hold. Rodgers responds to pressure by getting the ball out quicker, Cutler responds to pressure by getting pissed at his line. It drives me nuts, but I can't change that and the GM can't change that. That means the GM's only 2 options would be...switching QB's, which is a lot harder said than done, or making sure Cutler doesn't face the same kind of pressure Rodgers does.

[Kyyle23]

I think that the Bears have to accept that at this point in his career, one of Cutler's flaws, perhaps his biggest flaw, is how he deals with pressure. He has no ability whatsoever to do so. He can't avoid it, he doesn't use his feet, his body has been made into a concussion prone one, his decision making is slow, and his arm motion is slow, all of which combine to generate extra pressure if the line doesn't hold. Rodgers responds to pressure by getting the ball out quicker, Cutler responds to pressure by getting pissed at his line. It drives me nuts, but I can't change that and the GM can't change that. That means the GM's only 2 options would be...switching QB's, which is a lot harder said than done, or making sure Cutler doesn't face the same kind of pressure Rodgers does.

 

Disagree on both. Hell, just the last game they were praising his ability to get out move away from pressure. The problem is he hates throwing it away and that brings a lot of unwarranted sacks.

 

But then there are the games like against the Giants where it doesnt matter how fast his feet are or how fast the decision was, he was going to get killed.

[Dick Allen]

Or Gruden who turned Rich Gannon into an MVP and Brad Johnson into a SB-winner and Pro Bowler.

What happened the final 6 years of Gruden's coaching career? He didn't win one playoff game. And the offensive guru's teams were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL offensively. He's overrated. His sideline act, much like a certain coach of a certain team from a certain town than begins with a C, ends in an O and has HICAG in the middle, makes people think he's better than he is.

 

In one of the Chicago papers a writer was saying just how bad Cutler's fundamentals according to NFL scouts have become. Supposedly they are now worse than ever. I'm sure some of it could be instantly corrected with a better line. If the Bears are willing to spend money, Holmgren should be the hire. He corraled Favre, he might be the only one who can coral Cutler.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Disagree on both. Hell, just the last game they were praising his ability to get out move away from pressure. The problem is he hates throwing it away and that brings a lot of unwarranted sacks.

 

But then there are the games like against the Giants where it doesnt matter how fast his feet are or how fast the decision was, he was going to get killed.

Cutler has the ability to get out of the pocket and use his feet, but for whatever reason, it was so rarely used that at this point I just discount it. If someone can retrain him to do that, great. If that was discouraged in the Bears' system for some insane reason and a new OC makes it happen again, great. But in the GM's shoes, I can't go into the season assuming that. I would have to assume that Jay Cutler is a pocket passer with a strong arm who loves to throw down the field and needs time to throw. That's the guy we've seen the last 3 years, and the Bears can't try to win games based on what Cutler might have the ability to do any more, they have to plan for what he actually does.

[StrangeSox]

Balta, I don't think we've been watching the same Bears team this year. Cutler has been running out of the pocket and scrambling for yards a ton.

[Kyyle23]

What happened the final 6 years of Gruden's coaching career? He didn't win one playoff game. And the offensive guru's teams were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL offensively. He's overrated. His sideline act, much like a certain coach of a certain team from a certain town than begins with a C, ends in an O and has HICAG in the middle, makes people think he's better than he is.

 

In one of the Chicago papers a writer was saying just how bad Cutler's fundamentals according to NFL scouts have become. Supposedly they are now worse than ever. I'm sure some of it could be instantly corrected with a better line. If the Bears are willing to spend money, Holmgren should be the hire. He corraled Favre, he might be the only one who can coral Cutler.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that in Oakland and the first couple years in Tampa, there was a GM doing the personnel job for him(in Tampa he was handed a team). Then he won the superbowl and all the sudden got personnel control and the teams went down the crapper.

 

It goes back to our earlier discussion about Coaches getting control over personnel and how it rarely works out if ever. Gruden is a very good example of that.

[Dick Allen]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that in Oakland and the first couple years in Tampa, there was a GM doing the personnel job for him(in Tampa he was handed a team). Then he won the superbowl and all the sudden got personnel control and the teams went down the crapper.

 

It goes back to our earlier discussion about Coaches getting control over personnel and how it rarely works out if ever. Gruden is a very good example of that.

But that goes against the claim that Gruden took ho hum players and made them stars. If you are going to give him all the credit for Gannon and Johnson, he has a lot of blame coming. If he had the same results but Lovie's sideline demeanor, which I read described as looking like he's listening to smooth jazz on the sideline, no one would even talk about him. It's the end result that matters, not that your coach might have an annuerism on the sideline. The fact that he is the overwhelming choice among Ditkaphiles is a pretty good reason for Emery to cross him off the list.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Balta, I don't think we've been watching the same Bears team this year. Cutler has been running out of the pocket and scrambling for yards a ton.

Just looked through the stats. Cutler had 66% as many rushing attempts as Andrew Luck and Christian Ponder, 75% as many as Rodgers, and the same number as Jake Locker, who missed 5 games. His rushing attempts are also similar to guys like Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Matthew Stafford.

 

Cutler is more effective at getting yards per attempt than the latter names on those lists, but he's not getting out of the pocket and running nearly as much as "Mobile" QB's, particularly given the number of broken plays his line gave him.

[witesoxfan]

Just looked through the stats. Cutler had 66% as many rushing attempts as Andrew Luck and Christian Ponder, 75% as many as Rodgers, and the same number as Jake Locker, who missed 5 games. His rushing attempts are also similar to guys like Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Matthew Stafford.

 

Cutler is more effective at getting yards per attempt than the latter names on those lists, but he's not getting out of the pocket and running nearly as much as "Mobile" QB's, particularly given the number of broken plays his line gave him.

 

rushing attempts =! using your feet to avoid pressure

[Kyyle23]

But that goes against the claim that Gruden took ho hum players and made them stars. If you are going to give him all the credit for Gannon and Johnson, he has a lot of blame coming. If he had the same results but Lovie's sideline demeanor, which I read described as looking like he's listening to smooth jazz on the sideline, no one would even talk about him. It's the end result that matters, not that your coach might have an annuerism on the sideline. The fact that he is the overwhelming choice among Ditkaphiles is a pretty good reason for Emery to cross him off the list.

 

I wouldnt say Gannon and Johnson were ho hum before Gruden got to them. They both were pretty good QBs, he just took them to another level.

 

Bruce Gradkowski was never at their level at any point. Jeff Garcia was on his last legs.

 

I know his record after a good run wasnt that great, and i dont want to get into a long meaningless argument with you right now, but you are discrediting him far too much.

[GoSox05]

Packers o-line was banged up this year, but some of those sacks are on Rodgers. He tends to hold on to the ball. Which isn't always a bad thing. It's part of the reason he has so few interceptions every year. He also can get out of trouble and make crazy throws.