Sounds like we got our guy at South Carolina, I'll be interested to see which way Illinois goes now...

Only if you consider the circumstances. A guy who takes over a 2 win team and turns them into a 20 win team 3 years later will have a terrible record.

 

The year before he got to Ohio, the team won 20 games.

Just like the football search, basketball search hitting plan ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ again!

The year before he got to Ohio, the team won 20 games.

 

The previous coach left to go coach Bryant University, a school transitioning from DII to DI. That should tell you something about what was expected out of Ohio U the next few seasons.

Sounds like we got our guy at South Carolina, I'll be interested to see which way Illinois goes now...

 

Basketball powerhouse South Carolina steals Frank Martin, while Illinois steals John f***ing Groce. LOL.

The year before he got to Ohio, the team won 20 games.

 

What was left from that 20 win team?

Basketball powerhouse South Carolina steals Frank Martin, while Illinois steals John f***ing Groce. LOL.

 

You have to wonder, if this shakes down the way it seemingly is, what the HELL Illinois' A.D. is/was doing...

I love how many fans are even going to give Groce (if hired) a fighting chance. This is exactly what the program needs, fans to be calling for a coach to be fired before even being hired.

Man, some Illinois fans need to get a grip. I don't understand the outrage.

With Martin gone at KSU, I really hope they aren't looking at Jank.

It tells you something. I mean, the whole point of basketball is to win games, right?

In the tournament, yes.

What was left from that 20 win team?

 

3 of the top 5 scorers

I can see the frustration of Illinois fans in that it's not as good of a hire as other schools in the conference have made like Michigan, Indiana, OSU, Iowa (somehow), but you have to look at it without orange and blue glasses on, Groce is a pretty decent hire with a good pedigree. Kind of exactly like the football hire. If you want someone who has a chance to recruit extremely well and stick around even if he's successful that he's your guy. If you want a stepping stone guy then guys like Martin, etc would be just that.

Yeah, honestly Brad Stevens to me seemed like Weber 2.0 and once Shaka Smart said no there weren't that many guys I personally was interested in. This guy coached an Ohio team to a few victories this past tournament and seemingly a good recruiter so could be something.

This highlights how important it is to pick the right career moves. People will look at your record. Really good ADs will look at your record beginning with year three. By year three you should have most of your recruits in place, comfortable with the University and your recruiting area.

3 of the top 5 scorers

 

Meaning, the 3/4/5 scorers?

Meaning, the 3/4/5 scorers?

 

2/4/5

I can see the frustration of Illinois fans in that it's not as good of a hire as other schools in the conference have made like Michigan, Indiana, OSU, Iowa (somehow), but you have to look at it without orange and blue glasses on, Groce is a pretty decent hire with a good pedigree. Kind of exactly like the football hire. If you want someone who has a chance to recruit extremely well and stick around even if he's successful that he's your guy. If you want a stepping stone guy then guys like Martin, etc would be just that.

 

But this "as good" stuff is kind of ridiculous. Go look at Bo Ryan's D1 record before taking over for Wisky. Crean was like 50% at getting to the tournament at Marquette, had a final four run with D-Wade, but was blown out of the gym once he got there. Except for this last year Beilen hasn't done much at Michigan.

 

It's just not a slam dunk that a big name hire will do anything for you. Ask Minnesota fans how Tubby has worked out. Heck, the best coach in the Big Ten had ZERO head coaching experience, and look what MSU's been the last decade.

Edited March 26, 201214 yr by Jenksismybitch

But this "as good" stuff is kind of ridiculous. Go look at Bo Ryan's D1 record before taking over for Wisky. Crean was like 50% at getting to the tournament at Marquette, had a final four run with D-Wade, but was blown out of the gym once he got there. Except for this last year Beilen hasn't done much at Michigan.

 

It's just not a slam dunk that a big name hire will do anything for you. Ask Minnesota fans how Tubby has worked out. Heck, the best coach in the Big Ten had ZERO head coaching experience, and look what MSU's been the last decade.

Exactly. I like getting guys that can recruit in second or third tier conferences and have shown the ability to win tournaments and tournament games. I think those guys are the types of hires that stay and are successful. Groce basically recruited a national title contender for Matta, and then went to OU in a football state and won some tourney games.

The question becomes can he evaluate the level of player he needs to attract at UI?

 

 

You have to wonder, if this shakes down the way it seemingly is, what the HELL Illinois' A.D. is/was doing...

I wouldn't be thrilled to have Martin. I don't think you could say that's for sure a better hire than Groce. We'll only know years down the line anyway. But I don't think we "missed" on him or anything.

 

 

The question becomes can he evaluate the level of player he needs to attract at UI?

 

I don't think there will be an issue evaluating talent. That's probably the first thing these coaches learn to do since their success depends on finding the second or third tier guys that can play.

 

Talent is rarely an issue at Illinois. It was for a season or two after the Eric Gordon crap fell through. Otherwise Illinois has had plenty of talent to compete for conference titles and decent seeding. It's come down to work ethic and the inability to get better as the season progressed. That happened about 3 times on Webers' watch - his first two seasons and in 08-09 when they were hot and could have made a run before Frazier broke his hand in the Big Ten tourney. The rest of the time they were about the same from the beginning of the season on, if not worse.

 

And if he keeps Jerrance Howard the contacts with the top Chicago talent (though maybe not the one or two premier guys) will remain intact.

You have to wonder, if this shakes down the way it seemingly is, what the HELL Illinois' A.D. is/was doing...

 

At this rate, I wouldn't be suprised if K-State signs Groce in the next day or two.

I don't think there will be an issue evaluating talent. That's probably the first thing these coaches learn to do since their success depends on finding the second or third tier guys that can play.

 

Talent is rarely an issue at Illinois. It was for a season or two after the Eric Gordon crap fell through. Otherwise Illinois has had plenty of talent to compete for conference titles and decent seeding. It's come down to work ethic and the inability to get better as the season progressed. That happened about 3 times on Webers' watch - his first two seasons and in 08-09 when they were hot and could have made a run before Frazier broke his hand in the Big Ten tourney. The rest of the time they were about the same from the beginning of the season on, if not worse.

 

And if he keeps Jerrance Howard the contacts with the top Chicago talent (though maybe not the one or two premier guys) will remain intact.

He was rivals recruiter of the year in 2006. The guy brought in really good talent at OU as well. Getting Walter Offut to transfer in was a HUGE coup. He will recruit very hard, especially in indiana (surprise!). Also his teams play a much more uptempo attacking style than Weber has been using of late so that will be a welcome addition for UI fans.

I don't think there will be an issue evaluating talent. That's probably the first thing these coaches learn to do since their success depends on finding the second or third tier guys that can play.

 

Talent is rarely an issue at Illinois. It was for a season or two after the Eric Gordon crap fell through. Otherwise Illinois has had plenty of talent to compete for conference titles and decent seeding. It's come down to work ethic and the inability to get better as the season progressed. That happened about 3 times on Webers' watch - his first two seasons and in 08-09 when they were hot and could have made a run before Frazier broke his hand in the Big Ten tourney. The rest of the time they were about the same from the beginning of the season on, if not worse.

 

And if he keeps Jerrance Howard the contacts with the top Chicago talent (though maybe not the one or two premier guys) will remain intact.

 

Again, coming from a retired D1 AD at a school that has only made two NCAA men's basketball tournaments. Each time the guy moves up he has a tougher time evaluating talent. There are noticable differences between the 300 and 325 best players in the country, far fewer between the 23rd and 25th. It starts getting into intangibles.