caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 2, 2012 -> 12:13 AM) No way. Edwin Encarnacion is in his 8th season in the majors. He's a guy who's bad enough defensively that teams want to move him from the position, but whose bat doesn't translate anywhere else, and he's not bad enough defensively that it keeps you from playing him there. He's eclipse a WAR of 2 once, and generally sits in the 1.5 range. The Sox simply can't give up anything from their minor league system for such a marginal upgrade. They may as well stick with Morel in that case and let him work through it, or give a shot to anybody else within the organization. I was basing this idea more on his hot start than anything else. But yeah, over his entire career, MEHHHHH. He's just an average or slightly below average MLB player. That said, we can't have the player with the worst OPS in MLB at the position if we expect to contend, either. Geoff Blum (39) Miguel Cairo (39) Eric Chavez (35) Mark DeRosa (38) Brandon Inge (36) Maicer Izturis (32) Jose Lopez (29) Placido Polanco (37) - $5.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout Mark Reynolds (29) - $11MM club option with a $500K buyout Scott Rolen (38) Mark Teahen (31) Ty Wigginton (35) - $4MM club option with a $500K buyout David Wright (30) - $16MM club option with a $1MM buyout Kevin Youkilis (34) - $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../OPS/order/true Wright is the (probably) pipe dream, although clearly the most enticing for many, many reasons. Chase Headley and Hannahan would be the only other upgrades that might be available, and Hannahan's no Mike Schmidt. Polanco, Rolen, Stewart and Reynolds have been beyond bad. Edited May 2, 2012 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 2, 2012 -> 01:13 AM) No way. Edwin Encarnacion is in his 8th season in the majors. He's a guy who's bad enough defensively that teams want to move him from the position, but whose bat doesn't translate anywhere else, and he's not bad enough defensively that it keeps you from playing him there. He's eclipse a WAR of 2 once, and generally sits in the 1.5 range. The Sox simply can't give up anything from their minor league system for such a marginal upgrade. They may as well stick with Morel in that case and let him work through it, or give a shot to anybody else within the organization. His nickname is "E5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 1, 2012 -> 11:08 PM) Thanks. How then do you explain the success of the Braves' hitters under Walker if he's such a dog? I say congratulations to Walker for getting the credit he deserves and you blast me? From what I can tell of a hitting coach, Walker is as good as any in putting in the time and effort it takes to help ego-ridden big leaguers improve. Greg, this is why you sometimes get picked on. A blurb comes out about the Braves hitters doing well and you write a post basically saying all of the hate directed towards Walker was misguided and anyone who thought Walker wasn't doing a good job with the Sox is dumb. If you'll go back and look at quite a few of the posts after the blubr about the Braves, you'll see that the consensus was that Walker just wasn't cutting it with the Sox, not that he sucks at being a hitting coach. Maybe he is making a difference in Atlanta, or maybe it's just a change that's making the difference. The change from Walker to Manto seems to be positive with the Sox, but that's not necessarily saying Manto is so much better than Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 2, 2012 -> 12:08 AM) Thanks. How then do you explain the success of the Braves' hitters under Walker if he's such a dog? I say congratulations to Walker for getting the credit he deserves and you blast me? From what I can tell of a hitting coach, Walker is as good as any in putting in the time and effort it takes to help ego-ridden big leaguers improve. If I wanted to be the level of caricature you're being, I'd simply say that right now, Jayson Heyward is not hurt, whereas he was in terrible health last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ May 2, 2012 -> 08:59 AM) Greg, this is why you sometimes get picked on. A blurb comes out about the Braves hitters doing well and you write a post basically saying all of the hate directed towards Walker was misguided and anyone who thought Walker wasn't doing a good job with the Sox is dumb. If you'll go back and look at quite a few of the posts after the blubr about the Braves, you'll see that the consensus was that Walker just wasn't cutting it with the Sox, not that he sucks at being a hitting coach. Maybe he is making a difference in Atlanta, or maybe it's just a change that's making the difference. The change from Walker to Manto seems to be positive with the Sox, but that's not necessarily saying Manto is so much better than Walker. Considering the posts when the news broke ATL named Walker their hitting coach, you would have thought it was impossible their offense be anywhere near what it has been. People thought Walker was bad. They were wrong. They don't want to admit it. That's all it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Gordon Beckham and Albert Pujols have the same OPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2012 -> 10:16 AM) Considering the posts when the news broke ATL named Walker their hitting coach, you would have thought it was impossible their offense be anywhere near what it has been. People thought Walker was bad. They were wrong. They don't want to admit it. That's all it is. I think you're right that some people thought Walker was bad, but I would hazard to say that more people thought Walker was not right for the Sox or vice versa. So far it seems like he's a great fit for Atlanta. Good for him and the Braves. So far, Manto seems like a good fit with the Sox. But, whether we're talking about Manto or Walker, we have to remember that we're one month into their first seasons with these teams. A year from now, Braves fans could be calling for Walker's head or we could be screaming and crying about Manto. That's why I'm saying it's premature to start gloating and say "I told you Walker was a good hitting coach!" Maybe he is, but one thing was certain, he was not the right hitting coach for the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ May 2, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) I think you're right that some people thought Walker was bad, but I would hazard to say that more people thought Walker was not right for the Sox or vice versa. So far it seems like he's a great fit for Atlanta. Good for him and the Braves. So far, Manto seems like a good fit with the Sox. But, whether we're talking about Manto or Walker, we have to remember that we're one month into their first seasons with these teams. A year from now, Braves fans could be calling for Walker's head or we could be screaming and crying about Manto. That's why I'm saying it's premature to start gloating and say "I told you Walker was a good hitting coach!" Maybe he is, but one thing was certain, he was not the right hitting coach for the Sox. No one is really gloating, just trying to get Walker the same acknowledgement Manto would get if the Sox were 4th in MLB in runs scored. There are more than several posters who will never admit Greg Walker wasn't the problem with the White Sox offense, it was the hitters. This isn't little league where the coach teaches players how to hit. Many mention how the offense has improved this year, yet its virtually the same statistically with more strikeouts. The Sox actually scored more runs the first 23 games last season than they have this season. If the record was the same, people wouldn't be saying the offense looks better this year. Edited May 2, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Dick, Dick, Dick... It's not EITHER/OR as you always say. Comparatively, Cooper has been a better pitching coach than Walker a better hitting coach. And you will never admit or agree to that basic tenet of Sox baseball since 2003, which is an idea that 98% of the posters here would probably also agree with. Last time, I gave the examples of Konerko, Lillibridge and Carlos Quentin. We can argue this on a day-by-day basis, too. We can say Cubans always start out slow and/or Alexei Ramirez is getting old or his real age is much older than the "official" age, etc. Or that last night was the culmination of months of work for Gordon Beckham and he's going to go on a 2009-ish tear that will have everyone wondering "where did that Beckham do?" for all that time? And then you can respond with some anecdote about something Gordon's father or UGA coach or whatever worked with him over this past off-season...anything to not admit Manto might have had a positive effect on him, lol. Most here would agree things just weren't working or had gotten a bit stale here with the Sox...whereas the White Sox pitching numbers have been up there with any team in the league. Then you'll say that's expected because of Peavy's salary, or Danks' salary, it will go back and forth forever, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2012 -> 12:19 PM) Dick, Dick, Dick... It's not EITHER/OR as you always say. Comparatively, Cooper has been a better pitching coach than Walker a better hitting coach. And you will never admit or agree to that basic tenet of Sox baseball since 2003, which is an idea that 98% of the posters here would probably also agree with. Last time, I gave the examples of Konerko, Lillibridge and Carlos Quentin. We can argue this on a day-by-day basis, too. We can say Cubans always start out slow and/or Alexei Ramirez is getting old or his real age is much older than the "official" age, etc. Or that last night was the culmination of months of work for Gordon Beckham and he's going to go on a 2009-ish tear that will have everyone wondering "where did that Beckham do?" for all that time? And then you can respond with some anecdote about something Gordon's father or UGA coach or whatever worked with him over this past off-season...anything to not admit Manto might have had a positive effect on him, lol. Most here would agree things just weren't working or had gotten a bit stale here with the Sox...whereas the White Sox pitching numbers have been up there with any team in the league. Then you'll say that's expected because of Peavy's salary, or Danks' salary, it will go back and forth forever, lol. People forget Beckham put up an .877 OPS the second half of 2010 before breaking a hand. He hasn't been awful since 2009. He was bad last year but maybe he wasn't really over his injury and things spiraled. He was bad the first half of 2010 and bad the first 22 games of this season, but he'll be just fine. The only one really comparing Walker and Cooper is you. I just would like you, instead of trying to make excuses how the Braves improvement can't have anything to do with Walker, to admit, if the same thing happened with the Sox, you would say Manto is apparently doing a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 If Don Cooper would have been "poached" by another team this off-season (let's say, by the NY Yankees), there would have been a thread bemoaning it and worrying 5X longer than the current Cowley thread. Nobody would have been celebrating it or saying "finally!" If you want to believe I'm the only one who has ever compared their accomplishments, that's cool. Everyone would have been MORE upset with Ozzie and blaming him for Cooper's departure, etc. How many times do we see "Coop will fix 'em" or "In Coop We Trust" or Don Cooper is the best or one of THE best or one of the top 3-5 pitching coaches, etc., in MLB? Have we ever seen that about Walker? Well, because he found a job, he's great. So did Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel. Jeff Cox must be bad too, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2012 -> 12:41 PM) If Don Cooper would have been "poached" by another team this off-season (let's say, by the NY Yankees), there would have been a thread bemoaning it and worrying 5X longer than the current Cowley thread. Nobody would have been celebrating it or saying "finally!" If you want to believe I'm the only one who has ever compared their accomplishments, that's cool. Everyone would have been MORE upset with Ozzie and blaming him for Cooper's departure, etc. How many times do we see "Coop will fix 'em" or "In Coop We Trust" or Don Cooper is the best or one of THE best or one of the top 3-5 pitching coaches, etc., in MLB? Have we ever seen that about Walker? Well, because he found a job, he's great. So did Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel. Jeff Cox must be bad too, right? Are you drinking? This isn't about Cooper, this is about Atlanta at least until this point, turning their offense around. You give Cooper credit for every Sox success story, you should give Walker credit for Atlanta's improved offense, not making excuses as to why it has nothing to do with Greg Walker. Currently you are the only one making a Walker vs. Cooper argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2012 -> 11:46 AM) Are you drinking? This isn't about Cooper, this is about Atlanta at least until this point, turning their offense around. You give Cooper credit for every Sox success story, you should give Walker credit for Atlanta's improved offense, not making excuses as to why it has nothing to do with Greg Walker. Currently you are the only one making a Walker vs. Cooper argument. No, you're the one who came out after the recent losing streak and called out Manto, seeming to celebrate Walker (or called out Walker and compared the Braves with the Sox, or vice-versa). So the point of all that gloating was what? But way to deflect by accusing me of drinking, that sure supports good debate here. Well, I guess enough of us rose to nip at your bait to make it worth it, lol. Maybe I actually need to start drinking...this repeated argument loop/deja vu feeling will never go way!! Edited May 2, 2012 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2012 -> 12:58 PM) No, you're the one who came out after the recent losing streak and called out Manto, seeming to celebrate Walker (or called out Walker and compared the Braves with the Sox, or vice-versa). So the point of all that gloating was what? But way to deflect by accusing me of drinking, that sure supports good debate here. Well, I guess enough of us rose to nip at your bait to make it worth it, lol. Maybe I actually need to start drinking...this repeated argument loop/deja vu feeling will never go way!! As I explained, I was just playing with you about the fire Manto, just like I play when I say fire Cooper, which I will post again if Humber gets lit up like his last outing. I'm just mimicking the posters who would say fire Walker after every failed AB. I wasn't even aware of Atlanta's turnaround offensively until it was posted here. But if you're giving pitching coaches credit for perfect games, you should give a hitting coach credit for an NL leader in runs scored. People made Greg Walker out to be an incompetent idiot who knew nothing about hitting. Those people know nothing about Greg Walker. It is pretty sad how this site's expectations have fallen. Jim Thome was hated by many, remember the all or nothing, the Sox have to get rid of him and his .933 OPS. Now people are happy with Adam Dunn and his .864 OPS striking out 35 times in 81 AB, striking out in 23 straight games to start the season, and they are paying him a heck of a lot more than they paid Thome. Edited May 2, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) Gordon Beckham and Albert Pujols have the same OPS. Tell me that before the season and I would have said "awesome!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 2, 2012 -> 01:08 PM) Tell me that before the season and I would have said "awesome!" Either that or Happy Opening Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Many in SoCal sportsphere believe Albert's struggles are related to changing leagues and seeing both new and better pitching in the AL. Bat speed aside, could this also have been a contributing factor to Dunn's struggles of last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Daryl Van Schouwen @CST_soxvan Sox-Tigers matchups: Peavy v Smyly Friday, Floyd v Scherzer Saturday, Sale v Porcello Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 3, 2012 -> 02:53 PM) Many in SoCal sportsphere believe Albert's struggles are related to changing leagues and seeing both new and better pitching in the AL. Bat speed aside, could this also have been a contributing factor to Dunn's struggles of last season? I'll agree with new, but I don't know about better. There's some damn good pitching in the NL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) You've got the Rangers' staff, all the AL staffs now are good (especially TB), Baltimore is rapidly improving there, Toronto, then the Mariners and A's don't have great staffs 1-5 but hitting homers in either of those stadiums is quite diferent than the ball flying out in St. Louis from May-September. The AL Central after the Tigers and White Sox is probably the weakest because of MINN and KC. Rehab stint likely for White Sox' Crain By Daryl Van Schouwen on May 3, 2012 7:32 PM | Jesse Crain is eligible to come off the disabled list Sunday but the right-handed reliever won't be back any time soon. Manager Robin Ventura said one or two minor-league rehab outings are likely once Crain's left oblique heals completely. Crain had hoped to throw off a mound Thursday but was limited to about 20 throws on flat ground. "I don't do anything half [way], so I got to be ready to go, I got to get through it without it bothering me and affecting the way I pitch,'' Crain said. Crain, who was shelved with a mild right oblique strain is frustrated with this one, which is probably more delicate for a right-hander. He tried to stay positive. "The other day when I was done throwing, it felt very tight and sensitive,'' he said. "Today, it doesn't feel quite like that. So I think it's a step forward." http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/ Edited May 4, 2012 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...rticle_30348232 Rios takes issue with Tribe closer Perez By Scott Merkin / MLB.com | 05/04/12 1:30 AM ET CHICAGO -- No strong bonds of friendship exist between White Sox right fielder Alex Rios and Cleveland closer Chris Perez. In fact, the two are not even casual acquaintances. And don't look for any pleasantries to be exchanged between the two next week at Progressive Field after their angry exchange at the close of Thursday's 7-5 Indians victory in Chicago. Perez was pressed into service after Adam Dunn's two-run, ninth-inning homer off of Dan Wheeler and needed to sneak a called third strike past A.J. Pierzynski and induce a Rios grounder to shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera to record his ninth save. After the borderline strike to Pierzynski went his way, Perez celebrated with a strong fist pump on the mound. When Rios made contact on his game-ending play, Perez once again started yelling, and Rios didn't understand what he was doing or appreciate the actions. He had more than a few words for Perez as he was running back to the White Sox dugout, but the situation didn't come close to escalating into something more. "Well, I don't know what was wrong with him," said Rios with a wry smile. "He just started yelling for no reason. I don't know why he started yelling, and that's it. "When I hit that ground ball, he was yelling when [Cabrera] was throwing to first. He was yelling the whole way. I couldn't tell what he was saying. He was just staring and saying something." According to Perez, he's usually pretty fired up after getting the third out for victory. He yelled as he usually does and acknowledged that Rios might have thought he was yelling at him, but Perez said he wasn't. "I was yelling at my teammates. I was happy for the win," Perez said. "He might've taken exception to it, but I wasn't yelling anything at him. "As soon as he hit the bag, he turned and looked right at me. I was like, 'What? The game's over.' It's a big win for us. We're in first place. We don't play well here, so to win a series on the road going into a big weekend series for us, yeah, it's a big win for us." Rios is 2-for-9 with a walk-off grand slam in his career against Perez. That pretty much covers any interaction between the two. "Other than that, he's a competitor. I'm a competitor," Perez said. "He's on a different team. I'm not friends with him. I don't know him personally. I've just been playing against him. That's it. If he's mad, whatever. I don't care." This moment could be filed away for extra motivation against Perez and the Indians, with the White Sox scheduled to play 13 head-to-head games against the American League Central leaders. Rios just wanted to focus on playing baseball after their second loss in three games to the Indians, not on any lingering hard feelings from Perez's game-winning celebration. "If he was celebrating, that was not the right way to do it," Rios said. "But like I said, I have no clue what he was saying. He was just staring and screaming." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I see nothing wrong with what Perez said he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Not trying to beat a dead horse but man Jake was fuming pissed after being taken out last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 5, 2012 -> 04:45 AM) Not trying to beat a dead horse but man Jake was fuming pissed after being taken out last night. And I'm sure he was even more pissed watching Thornton blow the game he pitched so well in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 5, 2012 -> 05:45 AM) Not trying to beat a dead horse but man Jake was fuming pissed after being taken out last night. Then he shouldn't have left a fastball to Cabrera up and out over the plate. Pissed at himself, I'll bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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