Selling off parts?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why not? Nothing in the 12 years between 94 and 06 worked, despite having some very good teams, including a division winner.

 

So in other words, we're already defeated no matter what? Because a World Series is definitely not in the cards for this team in the next 5 years.

[Dick Allen]

So in other words, we're already defeated no matter what? Because a World Series is definitely not in the cards for this team in the next 5 years.

Famous last words. BTW, the last time the Sox were irrelavant in your estimation, they still had guys like Lee, Ordonez, Thomas and Konerko in the organization. Thinking they could tear it all down now and rebuild with their current players, it would be hard to imagine it could be done in less than 5 years. If the Sox lost 90+ for 5 years straight, I bet Soxtalk would be pretty dead, and those are the most loyal fans.

 

The other thing that makes total rebuilds a lot harder these days is you don't get Jon Garland for Matt Karchner anymore. At least its very rare. It used to be commonplace to trade a decent veteran for a top prospect at the deadline. Not anymore.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

Famous last words. BTW, the last time the Sox were irrelavant in your estimation, they still had guys like Lee, Ordonez, Thomas and Konerko in the organization. Thinking they could tear it all down now and rebuild with their current players, it would be hard to imagine it could be done in less than 5 years. If the Sox lost 90+ for 5 years straight, I bet Soxtalk would be pretty dead, and those are the most loyal fans.

 

Frank was coming off his second sub-par season. The other three guys you named were unknowns. Cleveland was winning the division for like the 6th consecutive year. Yeah. I'd say they were pretty irrelevant. As far as what's going on now, we're a virtual lock to miss the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 years. Assuming we finish below .500 (a safe bet), that will be 4 years in that span in which we've had a losing record. Attendance is already sagging. Minimal amount of young impact talent on the major league roster. Not a damn thing in the minors. What I'm saying is, it's already bad. More bad is not really going to make things worse than they already are.

[fathom]

I'm pro-rebuilding, but I'm also comfortable with the idea that Konerko should be used as a trade chip. I don't think everyone on this site would be on board with that.

[fathom]

The other thing that makes total rebuilds a lot harder these days is you don't get Jon Garland for Matt Karchner anymore. At least its very rare. It used to be commonplace to trade a decent veteran for a top prospect at the deadline. Not anymore.

 

Which is why the Sox are going to have to include money in deals if they want to get someone valuable in return for Peavy, etc.

[Dick Allen]

Frank was coming off his second sub-par season. The other three guys you named were unknowns. Cleveland was winning the division for like the 6th consecutive year. Yeah. I'd say they were pretty irrelevant. As far as what's going on now, we're a virtual lock to miss the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 years. Assuming we finish below .500 (a safe bet), that will be 4 years in that span in which we've had a losing record. Attendance is already sagging. Minimal amount of young impact talent on the major league roster. Not a damn thing in the minors. What I'm saying is, it's already bad. More bad is not really going to make things worse than they already are.

Doesn't matter if they were unknowns or Frank was coming off a bad season, they still were there which means quite a head start on a current, "total" rebuild.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm pro-rebuilding, but I'm also comfortable with the idea that Konerko should be used as a trade chip. I don't think everyone on this site would be on board with that.

 

Other than emotional attachment, which is understandable, there would be no reason to not be on board. PK is not 28. He's 35. He will not be with this team by the time they're ready to compete again. If you could get some legitimate assets, you do it. And he deserves to play for a winner anyway because he's so god-like.

[flavum]

Other than emotional attachment, which is understandable, there would be no reason to not be on board. PK is not 28. He's 35. He will not be with this team by the time they're ready to compete again. If you could get some legitimate assets, you do it. And he deserves to play for a winner anyway because he's so god-like.

 

He's 36. I love what PK is about, but there's really nobody on this roster that I'd cry over if they moved them.

 

Obviously, guys like Reed and Sale aren't going to be moved. But they need to move on without Kenny Williams, get some new thoughts in there, and let the bad contracts die off without handing out new bad contracts (see: Danks, John).

[Jordan4life_2007]

He's 36. I love what PK is about, but there's really nobody on this roster that I'd cry over if they moved them.

 

Obviously, guys like Reed and Sale aren't going to be moved. But they need to move on without Kenny Williams, get some new thoughts in there, and let the bad contracts die off without handing out new bad contracts (see: Danks, John).

 

I'm really going to keep an eye on the Nationals. That team looks like it's for real. And it helps that the Phillies can't score. If they're in first or right around first by the deadline, I definitely see them being extremely interested in an impact bat like PK.

[fathom]

I'm really going to keep an eye on the Nationals. That team looks like it's for real. And it helps that the Phillies can't score. If they're in first or right around first by the deadline, I definitely see them being extremely interested in an impact bat like PK.

 

They have Mr. Second Half though at 1B. Way more likely they try to get a big time center fielder. Also, they gave up a lot of their intriguing prospects in the Gio deal. Can we just trade Konerko and Alexei to the Brewers for Carlos Gomez? At least Hawk would be happy.

[Jordan4life_2007]

They have Mr. Second Half though at 1B. Way more likely they try to get a big time center fielder. Also, they gave up a lot of their intriguing prospects in the Gio deal. Can we just trade Konerko and Alexei to the Brewers for Carlos Gomez? At least Hawk would be happy.

 

Good point. It'll be interesting either way.

[fathom]

Good point. It'll be interesting either way.

 

The best fit for Konerko in a possible trade would be the Dodgers if Loney gets hurt or just completely tanks. Outside of the Dodgers or possibly the Orioles/Blue Jays if they stay in contention, I don't see too many teams going after Konerko unfortunately.

[greg775]

The Arizona Diamondbacks say hello. If you don't think a decade of horrificness hasn't done anything to harm their fanbase, you are being naive. People who would have been fans had they at least been competitve, moved on to other things. Its happened in Toronto, its happened in Cleveland, and it would most likely happen on the South Side of Chicago.

 

Just win, baby.

If the Sox could have built on that great 10-6 start, even with this roster there would have been mega excitement in Chicago this summer.

Instead, thanks the the annual meltdowns of our closers and passionless baseball at home, we're back to talking about shredding the roster to nothing, having five-10 years of 50-65 victories max in a total "rebuild," which would probably lead to the Sox moving from Chicago or being contracted.

 

[fathom]

Just win, baby.

If the Sox could have built on that great 10-6 start, even with this roster there would have been mega excitement in Chicago this summer.

 

False

[Y2Jimmy0]

Just win, baby.

If the Sox could have built on that great 10-6 start, even with this roster there would have been mega excitement in Chicago this summer.

Instead, thanks the the annual meltdowns of our closers and passionless baseball at home, we're back to talking about shredding the roster to nothing, having five-10 years of 50-65 victories max in a total "rebuild," which would probably lead to the Sox moving from Chicago or being contracted.

 

 

HAHA 50-65 wins a season? That's tough to do. But the bottom line is though that if they are going to miss the playoffs they may as well have the worst record in baseball. It does not matter. They could not "build" on their great 10-6 start because they are not that good. They have too many bad players on their team. That's generally what happens.

[Dick Allen]

HAHA 50-65 wins a season? That's tough to do. But the bottom line is though that if they are going to miss the playoffs they may as well have the worst record in baseball. It does not matter. They could not "build" on their great 10-6 start because they are not that good. They have too many bad players on their team. That's generally what happens.

It does matter. I understand draft position, but to say it doesn't matter if the Sox win 88 games and miss the playoffs or lose 100 is beyond silly.

[Y2Jimmy0]

It does matter. I understand draft position, but to say it doesn't matter if the Sox win 88 games and miss the playoffs or lose 100 is beyond silly.

 

 

And that's one man's opinion. Count me as not interested in being good enough to compete but not good enough to win the whole damn thing. If it were a team full of young players with promise then yes, obviously winning 88 games is better than being the worst team in baseball. But when you are the White Sox, with the worst minor league system in the game trying to win as many games as possible to hopefully finish 3rd does absolutely nothing to help the future of the franchise.

[NorthSideSox72]

And that's one man's opinion. Count me as not interested in being good enough to compete but not good enough to win the whole damn thing. If it were a team full of young players with promise then yes, obviously winning 88 games is better than being the worst team in baseball. But when you are the White Sox, with the worst minor league system in the game trying to win as many games as possible to hopefully finish 3rd does absolutely nothing to help the future of the franchise.

Then you simply are not familiar with the way the team is run. Revenue dictates player payroll. Revenue is tied to the success of the team (among other things). Not everyone feels as you do - many more fans will show up for a team that is decent, than one that is terrible. They will also sometimes show up for certain star players.

 

Whether or not YOU will is irrelevant, for the purpose of how the team is run. The White Sox, in their current situation, cannot do a gut rebuild and expect to succeed, short or long term. They need butts in the seats. Therefore, an 88 win team is most definitely better for the team's future than a 60 win team, all else equal.

 

This is why KW is doing a short-term rebuild on the fly for 2013 or 2014. That's the only realistic alternative he has in front of him.

 

[greg775]

HAHA 50-65 wins a season? That's tough to do. But the bottom line is though that if they are going to miss the playoffs they may as well have the worst record in baseball. It does not matter. They could not "build" on their great 10-6 start because they are not that good. They have too many bad players on their team. That's generally what happens.

 

Things were going along swell until our closer blew a couple saves and Sox lost some games in excruciating fashion. Then the Sale thing sure seems to have finished the team off mentally, taking a dominant starter out of the rotation with the alternative pitchers a soft throwing stiff like Axelrod.

 

A lot of people on here sure thought Dunn, Rios and Peavy rejuvenation in April would indeed let the team contend, especially with Detroit mediocre at the time.

Sox tend to implode in the most dramatic ways that sends the team spiraling down.

Edited May 8, 2012 by greg775

[bighurt574]

We have an awful minor league system, and no major league trade chips that are going to bring back top prospects that could reasonably be expected to power a relatively-short rebuilding job. Whether we go into sell mode or not, it's hard to imagine building a consistent winner until we fix our draft issues. And draft position doesn't even mean a whole lot if we're not willing to invest the $$$ in our picks.

Edited May 8, 2012 by bighurt574

[Dick Allen]

The new draft rules should help the Sox, and they have to do better with Latin signings. If you get some of those guys pan out, you can get away with some bad drafts. Look at Ron Schueler's drafts. They were as bad or worse than KW's, yet when he left, although it didn't prove to be true, his farm system was rated #1 in baseball.

[Marty34]

The attendance issue will fix itself once there is a management team in place with a plan for sustained success and fans start to see results. None of this year we are all in, next year we're not stuff.

[LittleHurt05]

The attendance issue will fix itself once there is a management team in place with a plan for sustained success and fans start to see results. None of this year we are all in, next year we're not stuff.

 

Results = playoff berths, titles. Despite how many posters here feel, the overall Sox fanbase doesn't care about a "plan", they want victories and a lot of them.

[southsider2k5]

The attendance issue will fix itself once there is a management team in place with a plan for sustained success and fans start to see results. None of this year we are all in, next year we're not stuff.

 

That was already disproved in this thread.

[Big Hurtin]

I'm really going to keep an eye on the Nationals. That team looks like it's for real. And it helps that the Phillies can't score. If they're in first or right around first by the deadline, I definitely see them being extremely interested in an impact bat like PK.

 

Aren't Washington, as well as Tampa Bay, notorious "grinders" when talking trades?