Awful Game

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm pretty sure Youkilis doesn't know how to bunt. That by itself makes it a bad move.

 

Surprise? He's squaring around for a sacrifice. That's not a surprise, Cabrera's standing halfway to the plate.

He may not know how, that I do not know. You'd think all these guys would know how - hell I remember Thome used to bunt once or twice a year.

 

As for squaring around, if he was blatant before the pitch was even thrown, then that is just poor execution on Youk's part. I am talking about RV's decision here.

 

Youk was more likely to get hte guys to 3rd by taking a walk than by successfully getting the bunt down. If you want someone to bunt there, pinch hit someone who can bunt.

 

Maybe a good idea, because...

 

Orlando Hudson: 33 sac bunts in his career

Kevin Youkilis: 0

 

I wouldn't be against that. But then you also degrade your defense for the later innings.

 

[Balta1701]

I wouldn't be against that. But then you also degrade your defense for the later innings.

By how much though? Youk isn't that incredible of a defender.

 

But if you're really worried about that...then tell Youk to do everything he can to take the walk. That's something he's good at.

[iamshack]

He may not know how, that I do not know. You'd think all these guys would know how - hell I remember Thome used to bunt once or twice a year.

 

As for squaring around, if he was blatant before the pitch was even thrown, then that is just poor execution on Youk's part. I am talking about RV's decision here.

 

 

 

Maybe a good idea, because...

 

 

 

I wouldn't be against that. But then you also degrade your defense for the later innings.

Youkilis has ABSOLUTELY NO RANGE right now. He hasn't made any above-average plays in a month.

 

The only thing I can say is if we would have brought Orlando in there, they would have been on top of the plate, he probably would have bunted anyways, and they would have turned and gunned the guy out at third, per usual White Sox execution.

 

Even when Youk squared around the first time, MCab didn't believe it...he didn't come in at all...that's why I thought maybe Youk was doing it on his own.

 

But we had three straight hits. Why oh why oh why are you going to give the guy an out there, down two runs?

[NorthSideSox72]

Youkilis has ABSOLUTELY NO RANGE right now. He hasn't made any above-average plays in a month.

 

The only thing I can say is if we would have brought Orlando in there, they would have been on top of the plate, he probably would have bunted anyways, and they would have turned and gunned the guy out at third, per usual White Sox execution.

 

Even when Youk squared around the first time, MCab didn't believe it...he didn't come in at all...that's why I thought maybe Youk was doing it on his own.

 

But we had three straight hits. Why oh why oh why are you going to give the guy an out there, down two runs?

Because Youk hasn't hit worth a lick against DET, or lately in general. And as you point out, the element of surprise was apparently effective, if Youk had gotten it down.

 

If Youk can in fact bunt (again, I don't know this for sure), then I think it was a smart move.

 

[fathom]

But we had three straight hits. Why oh why oh why are you going to give the guy an out there, down two runs?

 

Robin admitted after the game he was playing for the tie that inning.

[iamshack]

Robin admitted after the game he was playing for the tie that inning.

Which is incredible, considering how well we have been executing with runners in scoring position over the past 3 weeks.

 

 

[iamshack]

Because Youk hasn't hit worth a lick against DET, or lately in general. And as you point out, the element of surprise was apparently effective, if Youk had gotten it down.

 

If Youk can in fact bunt (again, I don't know this for sure), then I think it was a smart move.

All we can go off of is the fact that he has never done it.

 

As much as Hawk throws out some incredibly inconsistent sayings, the one about don't put players in a position to fail is probably the most accurate one of them all.

 

Robin was trying to have Tom Berenger lay down the bunt there and it backfired miserably, right when we had all the momentum in our favor.

[iamshack]

Mr. Ventura, the managerial decisions you made last night were some of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever seen. At no point in your ridiculous, incoherent thought process were you even close to anything that could be considered rational managerial moves. Everyone at the game or watching the game is now dumber for having seen it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[elrockinMT]

The offense is not getting the job done & we can't always count on the long ball. But, Peavy needs to be able to step up in these big game situations. But, then again he isn't the only pitgcher on this team that needs to do that. I just don't know what to make or expect of these next two games. Floyd hopefully comes out with his best stuff and isn't tentative. Usually with him and a few others it's that firsty or second inning. Get through that and they usually do good. I guess even if we lose the next two we are still in first place but we have to start executing better

[tonyho7476]

I'm against bunting in almost all situations. Why give the other team an out? I have seen it fail more than I have seen it work. f*** bunting!

[Paint it Black]

I'm against bunting in almost all situations. Why give the other team an out? I have seen it fail more than I have seen it work. f*** bunting!

This.

 

It also goes without saying that if you don't trust your #2 hitter to handle the bat, he should not be hitting #2. Bonus: Especially with Wise coming up next. I'm currious as to what the win % would have done had that bunt even been laid down.

 

I was at the game last night, and after that at bat all the excitement was just sucked out of the stadium. I know Wise homered last night, but I'm starting to get REALLY tired of the awul at-bats, expecailly from the 3 hole.

[greg775]

Apparently I am the only Sox fan who was OK with Youk bunting there last night. I thought it was a good move. Youk has looked pretty terrible in the past few weeks with the bat, and if it is executed properly it takes DET by surprise, you lose the force, and you may even get a hit out of it with Cabrera at 3B. It didn't work.

 

But I really don't get putting in Liriano there. If he's in he bullpen, he needs to be in for long relief in a game not very close, at least at first. That was a bizarre situation for him to be in, I really don't understand it.

 

The problem is Youk can't bunt. He had horrific form and no chance to get one down.

[Buehrle>Wood]

This.

 

It also goes without saying that if you don't trust your #2 hitter to handle the bat, he should not be hitting #2. Bonus: Especially with Wise coming up next. I'm currious as to what the win % would have done had that bunt even been laid down.

 

I was at the game last night, and after that at bat all the excitement was just sucked out of the stadium. I know Wise homered last night, but I'm starting to get REALLY tired of the awul at-bats, expecailly from the 3 hole.

This. Stadium was rocking on that third hit. Completely died when Youk showed bunt.

[SI1020]

I'm pretty sure Youkilis doesn't know how to bunt. That by itself makes it a bad move.

 

Surprise? He's squaring around for a sacrifice. That's not a surprise, Cabrera's standing halfway to the plate.

He's had exactly 0 successful sacrifice bunts in his career. It was a terrible terrible decision by our manager. I like a lot of thing Robin has done, but he has a ways to go with some of his in game moves that have dumb fans like me yelling in frustration. Edited September 12, 2012 by SI1020

[fathom]

Bernstein just read off a column by Joe Sheehan that discussed Ventura's poor decisions last night. Youk only had one successful bunt in the minor, FWIW.

[Dick Allen]

While having him bunt is most likely a mistake and a nice topic for a radio talk show to attract callers who love to complain about everything, Youkilis attempting to bunt made zero difference. He never swings at the first pitch anyway, check any scouting report, so even if he was swinging away, he would have taken it for a strike, that was strike 1. The next pitch he took for a strike which he didn't think was a strike, that's strike 2 and he swung at a ball 3 feet out of the strikezone for strike 3.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Buehrle>Wood]

Youkilis attempting to bunt made zero difference. He never swings at the first pitch anyway, check any scouting report, so even if he was swinging away, he would have taken it for a strike, that was strike 1. The next pitch he took for a strike, that's strike 2 and he swung at a ball 3 feet out of the strikezone for strike 3.

He had a bunt on for strike two...

[Dick Allen]

He had a bunt on for strike two...

Yes and he pulled away thinking it was a ball. If he were swinging, he would have taken the pitch for strike 2.

[Balta1701]

Yes and he pulled away thinking it was a ball. If he were swinging, he would have taken the pitch for strike 2.

Not necessarily. He's changed his eye position by squaring around from where he's used to seeing the ball to a different spot. Especially in the case of a guy who is very used to seeing a pitch from a certain, and let's say "Unique" perspective, changing the eye location will have a big impact on whether or not he thinks its a strike. Whether it's a pitch he thought he wanted to bunt at and whether it was a pitch he'd have taken/swung at normally are 2 different things.

 

That pitch was middle in, just below the waist, which actually happens to be in one of Youk's hot zones if you believe Yahoo. Heck, if the pitcher thoguht he was swinging, he probably wouldn't have thrown that pitch.

[Dick Allen]

Not necessarily. He's changed his eye position by squaring around from where he's used to seeing the ball to a different spot. Especially in the case of a guy who is very used to seeing a pitch from a certain, and let's say "Unique" perspective, changing the eye location will have a big impact on whether or not he thinks its a strike. Whether it's a pitch he thought he wanted to bunt at and whether it was a pitch he'd have taken/swung at normally are 2 different things.

 

That pitch was middle in, just below the waist, which actually happens to be in one of Youk's hot zones if you believe Yahoo. Heck, if the pitcher thoguht he was swinging, he probably wouldn't have thrown that pitch.

Guys not used to bunting usually expand their strikezones to get a bunt down. You can say he would have swung at it and hit a home run, I think its more likely he would have taken it for strike 2. While I disagree with Ventura having him bunt, its not like Youkilis is on a roll or anything. The pitch was borderline anyway, one Stone said could have been called either way. Chances are with the way he's been going if he swung at it, he wouldn't have hit it fair and if he did, not very hard.

 

Youk was 3 for his last 33 coming into that AB.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Dick Allen

[YASNY]

Thoughts.

 

Ventura: He may have made the wrong call in that spot, but his overall body of work cannot be ignored. He has lead a team that was projected to lose 95 games and they are in 1st place in mid- September.

 

Bunting in general: I'd be very picky about when to call for a sacrifice bunt, because I don't believe in giving away outs. Handle the bat and hit the ball to right side to advance runners ... Hell, it may go through for a hit.

 

Bunting again: I believe that every major league hitter should be able to lay down a bunt if the situation calls for it.

 

Once again, bunting: We do have proficient bunters on this team. Why we haven't run Cabrera into the ground during this and the last series is beyond me.

[The Beast]

Farmer said the crowd was almost all Detroit fans. Not sure where he got that.

 

Youkilis should not have been ordered to bunt. The score should have gotten up to as high as 8-3 but the bullpen showed some cold veins and surrendered minimized the damage. Velverde is a s*** head.

 

Also section 152 row 23 on the aisle sucks. Too many idiots standing up in their seats talking to friends, people constantly walking up and down the aisle and two assholes fighting caused people to stand and make everyone else miss half the inning. Obnoxious.

[iamshack]

Guys not used to bunting usually expand their strikezones to get a bunt down. You can say he would have swung at it and hit a home run, I think its more likely he would have taken it for strike 2. While I disagree with Ventura having him bunt, its not like Youkilis is on a roll or anything. The pitch was borderline anyway, one Stone said could have been called either way. Chances are with the way he's been going if he swung at it, he wouldn't have hit it fair and if he did, not very hard.

 

Youk was 3 for his last 33 coming into that AB.

Maybe if you wanted to bunt him you could have just put in someone who could actually do it?

[witesoxfan]

Having cooled down a little, I don't even give a s*** about bunting in that spot. You just don't do it with Youkilis. You wouldn't bunt with Paul Konerko there either, and, though Paul Konerko has been a more accomplished hitter, it is literally the exact same argument.

 

As has been said, if their heart was set on bunting, you bring in Hudson or Olmedo or Danks and have them lay one down. You don't have Youkilis.

[kitekrazy]

What the hell? I won't say he dominated, but he leaned more towards that than he did choking. Choking is giving up 5 runs in less than 6 innings to play. He had a good game. Not great or awesome, but a good game. Choking? Did Sox fans forget what choking was? I'll give you examples, it was Esteban Loaiza complaining he didn't get enough run support when he was actually getting top 5 run support. It was Shingo Takatsu wetting the bed all the way back overseas, it was Javier Vazquez losing before the game even started.

 

Peavy vs. winnable game against Tigers = choking.