StrangeSox Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 5, 2013 -> 09:35 PM) How? The NFL is a billion dollar business Part of being a "billion dollar business" is public relations and marketing. The news that has come out about Incognito damages the Dolphins brand. Even putting that aside, we always hear about certain guys being a "locker room cancer." This guy was such a cancer (and an all-around terrible person it seems) that he drove another player off of the team. edit: Take a look around the sports world, these crazy analytics and hyper scrunity... this is the culture it creates. I'm not getting the link between "lots of stats and analysis" and "being a raging racist asshole who extorts people for thousands of dollars." How does more media coverage and scrutiny lead to or encourage that type of behavior? There's plenty of non-assholes in the NFL. Edited November 6, 2013 by KyYlE23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I'm surprised at how many people in the media have blamed Martin for this. Ricky Williams was one of the worst. Pretty disgusting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Apparently it's Martin's fault because he isn't a gigantic douche who would punch Incognito or something, because that's how grown men handle things I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I wish people who are mentally ill would just get over that s***! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Why would it matter if Incognito is better than Martin anyways? Incognito is a guard and Martin is a tackle. That's like saying that "because Julius Peppers is better than Henry Melton, the Bears should get rid of him." No, you'd ideally like to keep both of them so your team is better. What does that have to do with any of this? Incognito (and the Dolphins in generally) have a PR nightmare on their hands. Also, the Dolphins asking for Martin to be toughened up is pretty general. Them asking Incognito, a known POS, to toughen him up brings their ability to identify high character players into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 08:15 AM) I'm surprised at how many people in the media have blamed Martin for this. Ricky Williams was one of the worst. Pretty disgusting stuff. I haven't seen anyone blame Martin. If that's the case, that's f***ed up. I do think being a Stanford educated adult he should have at least gone to his line coach to tell him what was going on. As of right now, it doesn't appear that he told anyone about this and then just up and quit one day. That doesn't excuse anything here, but maybe that was a mistake that could have prevented this from escalating as much as it did. Obviously you blame Icognito for all of this, but I also blame the rest of the Dolphins players. Maybe this all happened behind closed doors and it really only involved Martin/Incognito, but I really doubt that. Guys should have seen something going on, especially the other lineman. Why didn't they have his back? There's rookie hazing, and then there's assault, and it's pretty clear a line was being crossed here. I can't really blame the coaching staff or the Dolphins front office. Maybe a lower level coach that also should have seen something going on, but there's no way a head coach is going to be able to see one guy being harassed more than normal. He has to rely on his asst coaches for that kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:02 AM) Why would it matter if Incognito is better than Martin anyways? Incognito is a guard and Martin is a tackle. That's like saying that "because Julius Peppers is better than Henry Melton, the Bears should get rid of him." No, you'd ideally like to keep both of them so your team is better. What does that have to do with any of this? Incognito (and the Dolphins in generally) have a PR nightmare on their hands. Also, the Dolphins asking for Martin to be toughened up is pretty general. Them asking Incognito, a known POS, to toughen him up brings their ability to identify high character players into question. Oh come on. This is the ESPN spin machine at work. This isn't a nightmare. The Dolphins (and NFL) aren't losing money on this thing. It's just another story about professional players being assholes. Who honestly thinks less of the NFL or the Dolphins because of this? It was one asshole and one victim. Without more, case closed. Even if the dolphins coaches asked Icognito to toughen Martin up, they didn't know he was going to be a racist asshole about it or go about it in the way that he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 10:11 AM) Who honestly thinks less of the NFL or the Dolphins because of this? It was one asshole and one victim. Without more, case closed. Even if the dolphins coaches asked Icognito to toughen Martin up, they didn't know he was going to be a racist asshole about it or go about it in the way that he did. But there's a good chance they're still liable in a legal sense if they did ask for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 10:07 AM) I can't really blame the coaching staff or the Dolphins front office. Maybe a lower level coach that also should have seen something going on, but there's no way a head coach is going to be able to see one guy being harassed more than normal. He has to rely on his asst coaches for that kind of stuff. I think you're right on the "lower level coach" stuff; these teams employ what, 10-20 different coaches and each player probably has 2-3 different guys working with him? It's kinda hard to understand the point of those huge coaching staffs if they can't keep track of player activities when the season is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I think in time we will know if the coaches for Miami had an idea of what was going on and how much they knew. I also think this will lead to a ban of all forms of hazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:12 AM) But there's a good chance they're still liable in a legal sense if they did ask for that to happen. The devils in the details, but giving someone a job of toughing up a teammate doesn't mean you're demanding that they leave threatening voice mails and commit assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:13 AM) I think you're right on the "lower level coach" stuff; these teams employ what, 10-20 different coaches and each player probably has 2-3 different guys working with him? It's kinda hard to understand the point of those huge coaching staffs if they can't keep track of player activities when the season is on. This all happened in the off season though right? I thought those voice mails were from April. And again, it could be that this was all after-practice stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) Oh come on. This is the ESPN spin machine at work. This isn't a nightmare. The Dolphins (and NFL) aren't losing money on this thing. It's just another story about professional players being assholes. Who honestly thinks less of the NFL or the Dolphins because of this? It was one asshole and one victim. Without more, case closed. Even if the dolphins coaches asked Icognito to toughen Martin up, they didn't know he was going to be a racist asshole about it or go about it in the way that he did. The NFL, no, but I do certainly think less of the Dolphins. Incognito has proven to be a bigger POS than anyone could have imagined and the Dolphins apparently entrusted him to "toughen up" Jonathan Martin even though they were likely well aware of his racist nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) This all happened in the off season though right? I thought those voice mails were from April. And again, it could be that this was all after-practice stuff. Apparently Martin has been getting the treatment since he has been there, and then they asked to toughen him up. I think it will all come out eventually. Im guessing that Incognito is going to have more than a few hazing trophies on his mantle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:20 AM) The NFL, no, but I do certainly think less of the Dolphins. Incognito has proven to be a bigger POS than anyone could have imagined and the Dolphins apparently entrusted him to "toughen up" Jonathan Martin even though they were likely well aware of his racist nature. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) I think in time we will know if the coaches for Miami had an idea of what was going on and how much they knew. I also think this will lead to a ban of all forms of hazing. I would say that there is no doubt this happens, even if most of it is good natured fun. I think taping a guy up on the field goal posts for a bit is fine and dandy, and making those guys take back equipment or whatever is generally harmless. Most of this stuff is ridiculous though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:24 AM) ? He has had anger issues dating back to Nebraska. Probably high school if someone dug it up. His dads messageboard posts pretty much reaffirm Jr's line of thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 He has had anger issues dating back to Nebraska. Probably high school if someone dug it up. His dads messageboard posts pretty much reaffirm Jr's line of thinking An NFL lineman from Nebraska with anger issues? Seems like we've heard that story before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Shea gets defensive player of the week award for breaking Aaron Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 The article I posted in SLaM can provide some insight. There is a lot of good nature ribbing that goes on and reflect genuine affection between teammates. Unfortunately, the line isn't always clear and the "out" player will continue to lower his standard of what is acceptable abuse just to try to impress his teammates. The system puts immense pressures on guys to get along, which can obviously result in great comaraderie, but can also push a guy to take this kind of abuse and empower a huge dickhead to dole it out, unchecked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:35 AM) He has had anger issues dating back to Nebraska. Probably high school if someone dug it up. His dads messageboard posts pretty much reaffirm Jr's line of thinking Yeah that part of the story is hilarious/sad. http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-d...on-m-1457997230 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Wow, I am blown away by some of the comments in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) Wow, I am blown away by some of the comments in here. It is a hot button topic to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Anyone happen to hear Mike & Mike this morning? I heard that Golic and Lebatard got into it about the Incognito/Martin thing. I am guessing Golic was advocating on behalf of the "need to toughen up the players" side of things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Anyone happen to hear Mike & Mike this morning? I heard that Golic and Lebatard got into it about the Incognito/Martin thing. I am guessing Golic was advocating on behalf of the "need to toughen up the players" side of things... Sort of. Golic was not at all excusing the stuff Incognito did, but he was saying that if Martin really had the stuff of an NFL player, he would have beat the living s*** out of Incognito instead of just quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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