You left out the 2 PTBNL's . I know we all want some instant gratifcation but everyone who clamored for a rebuild should be happy. This is how it's done. Yea we didnt get a Will Myers but who got anything this year for veterans ? It's just a bad time for getting prospects . I'd call it bad timing not bad trades. W're all still living in the world of the previous years and that's not the way it is now.

Those players are not guaranteed to happen. That's why I left it out. Agreed it was bad timing, but that can make for bad trades as well.

We're going to be in on Choo. Book it.

Someone is forgetting Mr. Montas as well...

 

Pitchers with that type of arm don't grow on trees. Plus, Crain MIGHT come back to the Rays. He will resume throwing again in the next week....when/if he comes back is anybody's guess, though.

We're going to be in on Choo. Book it.

 

He's a Boras client.

 

I'd love Choo in right. The guy is everything this team lacks.

Edited August 9, 201312 yr by chw42

Trayce might force one of the OF's out of the way at some point but he's not nearly there yet.

 

He's not hitting in AA now. Hopefully he can hit in AA next year. Hopefully he can hit at AAA in 2015.

 

He's not hitting in AA now. Hopefully he can hit in AA next year. Hopefully he can hit at AAA in 2015.

 

That's how I see it too. No way that kid would stand a chance against MLB pitching as is now. U think Flowers is lost....mercy.

I have no problem with the Rios deal. Hahn took his time, something that Kenny never did, and weighed what options he had. Not many teams were beating down his door to get Rios. Same goes for the Peavy deal. Garcia would seem to be the key. A bat to build around going forward. Is he going to be? Who knows? But from what was available, a guy who could play right away in the bigs, he was one of the few it would seem.

 

The larger point is I see the plan. Whether I agree with it...that's another question. But Hahn feels like the sox can contend in 2014, with the pitching we have and coming up. And he isn't that far off, I have to admit. His mantra about the Sox having the pitching is damn true. Getting a few key position players to go with the pitching is the plan. There are various ways:

 

Short Term:

1] trades with the pitching we have--I think Santiago would be able to net a key young guy or two.

2] trades with the extra money saved. Guys who signed big contracts that are now unaffordable for their teams. The cost in terms of prospects wouldn't be much, as teams would want salary relief. Think the first Alex Rios waiver deal with Toronto. Not sure who is out there.

3] Free agents. Choo would be a guy who would be worth overpaying for the Sox, with his OBP a huge upgrade. Granderson maybe.

4] Cuban free agents.

 

long term:

5] invest in scouting, minor league instruction/ coaching.

6] international signings.

 

Sox have so much cap space.. I hope they go for kendry morales and Jacoby Ellsbury. I prefer Ellsbury to Choo due to the age honestly. He is also a true CFer. We can trade de aza for a halfway decent prospect hopefully. Erik Johnson should be up next year too. We would have a solid pitching staff and an improvement all around. That team could compete fairly quickly, depending on how our prospects advance of course.

 

 

I'm not sure if Hahn is looking to retool by next year already.

Overpaying on Choo is crazy.....we need players who will be in their primes in 2015/16/17.

 

Just think the years and average salary will price him out of consideration.

This "blow it all up talk" is beyond ridiculous. We have a young, cheap, championship-caliber rotation in place and for a long time. Big market teams don't go full-rebuild when they already have the hardest part of a team built. That's just f***ing stupid.

 

Obviously building an offense can't be done overnight, but it can be done over the course of 2 offseasons IMO. The key is developing Garcia, Semien, Viciedo, & Phegley next year. That should be the priority. Also, use 2014 to see if Beckham & De Aza can be part of the future core and either lock them up long-terk deals or move them at the deadline. And don't be afraid to make smart free agent signings, especially at positions of need in the organization. I really think Morales could solve our 1B problems on a 3 year deal until Barnum or another candidate is ready.

 

If 2014 goes well with the young guys, then you look to use our financial flexibility to add another key piece or two. There are actually some good 3B that will be free agents prior to the 2015 season. On top of that, guys like Thompson, Jacobs, & Sanchez may be ready to contribute. Point is we don't need to blow it up to rebuild our offense. We just need to be patient with the young hitters we already have, find creative ways to add talent (young non-tender guys with upside, prospects coming off bad years, etc), and be savy buyers in free agency. It won't be easy but it's definitely doable.

Overpaying on Choo is crazy.....we need players who will be in their primes in 2015/16/17.

 

Just think the years and average salary will price him out of consideration.

Middle of the order bats, like Choo's-are hard to come by. In the short term, a 31 year old makes sense. Esp. for his avg. and OBP skills. The Sox are in the position to pay for an extra year or added cash. And he'd be a stop gap, part of the solution, not the answer. If the price was right. But many teams are cutting back, or want to but haven't yet. Like the sox are doing.

Middle of the order bats, like Choo's-are hard to come by. In the short term, a 31 year old makes sense. Esp. for his avg. and OBP skills. The Sox are in the position to pay for an extra year or added cash. And he'd be a stop gap, part of the solution, not the answer. If the price was right. But many teams are cutting back, or want to but haven't yet. Like the sox are doing.

 

I wonder if the Sox might consider front-loading a free agent offer in the first year. The Sox are going to have a lot to spend for 2014 and not much to spend it on, so their #1 target like Choo, Elsbury, Cano or McCann could conceivably get offered something insane like $25M for the first year and then $10M or so for the remaining years, to leave more salary flexibility for when the Sox will be looking more to contend.

 

I wonder if the Sox might consider front-loading a free agent offer in the first year. The Sox are going to have a lot to spend for 2014 and not much to spend it on, so their #1 target like Choo, Elsbury, Cano or McCann could conceivably get offered something insane like $25M for the first year and then $10M or so for the remaining years, to leave more salary flexibility for when the Sox will be looking more to contend.

That's not a half bad idea

This "blow it all up talk" is beyond ridiculous. We have a young, cheap, championship-caliber rotation in place and for a long time. Big market teams don't go full-rebuild when they already have the hardest part of a team built. That's just f***ing stupid.

 

Obviously building an offense can't be done overnight, but it can be done over the course of 2 offseasons IMO. The key is developing Garcia, Semien, Viciedo, & Phegley next year. That should be the priority. Also, use 2014 to see if Beckham & De Aza can be part of the future core and either lock them up long-terk deals or move them at the deadline. And don't be afraid to make smart free agent signings, especially at positions of need in the organization. I really think Morales could solve our 1B problems on a 3 year deal until Barnum or another candidate is ready.

 

If 2014 goes well with the young guys, then you look to use our financial flexibility to add another key piece or two. There are actually some good 3B that will be free agents prior to the 2015 season. On top of that, guys like Thompson, Jacobs, & Sanchez may be ready to contribute. Point is we don't need to blow it up to rebuild our offense. We just need to be patient with the young hitters we already have, find creative ways to add talent (young non-tender guys with upside, prospects coming off bad years, etc), and be savy buyers in free agency. It won't be easy but it's definitely doable.

You're obviously not going to be blowing up the whole pitching staff. But what if Viciedo and Phegley never pan out? What if Beckham and De Aza move on? The problem is you've got to get the pieces from somewhere, and that might take quite a few years...which means the odds of anyone we currently have being of any use at that time fairly low.

I don't think this newfound payroll flexibility is going to do anything to diminish the team's aversion to pursuing clients of Scott Boras.

Edited August 10, 201312 yr by Thad Bosley

You're obviously not going to be blowing up the whole pitching staff. But what if Viciedo and Phegley never pan out? What if Beckham and De Aza move on? The problem is you've got to get the pieces from somewhere, and that might take quite a few years...which means the odds of anyone we currently have being of any use at that time fairly low.

 

The problem is that this team lacks serious star-caliber players on offense, even if everyone pans out. Gonna have to find some difference makers to add to this offense.

After thinking about it a little more, McCann might be the best fit going forward as opposed to Ellsbury or Choo. What teams will even be in the market for catching?

I don't think this newfound payroll flexibility is going to do anything to diminish the team's aversion to pursuing clients of Scott Boras.

 

Hahn talked about Boras today with Bernstein. It's been said before, but the problem really isn't dealing with him...it's the time it takes to sign his players. The Sox usually don't outbid teams, so they don't have time to wait until mid-January and in the process lose out on their next best options too. Makes sense.

The problem is that this team lacks serious star-caliber players on offense, even if everyone pans out. Gonna have to find some difference makers to add to this offense.

Yes it does. It does us little good to get to mediocre in the next few years.

Yes it does. It does us little good to get to mediocre in the next few years.

 

I like guys like Semien and Beckham probably more than anyone, but they need to be supporting players as not your stars. Garcia has some potential, but there's no one else in the pipeline that projects as an above average player right now on offense.

I like guys like Semien and Beckham probably more than anyone, but they need to be supporting players as not your stars. Garcia has some potential, but there's no one else in the pipeline that projects as an above average player right now on offense.

I still have an inkling of hope for Gordon, but yeah, I think you're probably right.

I like guys like Semien and Beckham probably more than anyone, but they need to be supporting players as not your stars. Garcia has some potential, but there's no one else in the pipeline that projects as an above average player right now on offense.

 

Therein lies the problem, in a nutshell:

 

Potential impact bats

Viciedo, Avisail Garcia, Barnum (a stretch, I know at the moment) and Hawkins

 

Utility/complimentary

Gillaspie, Kepp, Morel, Micah Johnson, Beckham, Carlos Sanchez, L. Garcia, Semien (nothing at 1B/DH in pipeline), middle infield prospect in Peavy deal from BOS

 

Toolsy outfielders who might bust:

Walker, Mitchell, Hawkins, Jacobs, Thompson

 

a mess at the catching position still...

 

lots of good arms but a mess overall in the bullpen: Webb, Santos Rodriguez, Petricka, Snodgress (sticking him here for now), Beck, Montas (who could quickly figure into the mix), Rienzo, Simon Castro (if velocity returns to go with that nice offspeed stuff)

 

Athletic players who could really emerge or disappoint: Trayce Thompson and Tim Anderson

Edited August 10, 201312 yr by caulfield12

Catcher, DH/1B, and OF would be my priorities from a position perspective. You have guys that you could potentially get that are good players that can be above league average at their position and you sign whichever of those guys potentially sit out on the market and are willing to take shorter term deals. Kendry Morales as a 2 to 3 yr deal isn't bad. Curtis Granderson isn't bad at 2-3 years and if you want to splurge you splurge on McCann. Add those three bats and the offense is significantly better and you aren't really hindering the growth of any of your good prospects/young players. Semien, Beckham, Garcia, Vicied all are playing.

 

If you don't end up competing, those guys you signed didn't break the bank (except McCann) and can probably be moved to a contender. Now I just named a few guys above and I don't know who will sit out on FA and end up taking a shorter term deal but if I were the Sox I'd trade/sign 3 starting position players.

I hope they go for kendry morales and Jacoby Ellsbury. I prefer Ellsbury to Choo due to the age honestly. He is also a true CFer. We can trade de aza for a halfway decent prospect hopefully.

 

If you are spending money on free agents it would presumably be to compete in 2014. Then why would you get rid of De Aza, our best offensive player this year, whose salary is nothing?

Middle of the order bats, like Choo's-are hard to come by. In the short term, a 31 year old makes sense. Esp. for his avg. and OBP skills. The Sox are in the position to pay for an extra year or added cash. And he'd be a stop gap, part of the solution, not the answer. If the price was right. But many teams are cutting back, or want to but haven't yet. Like the sox are doing.

So, you're saying you want a smaller Korean Alex Rios for a higher price?