KW still GM?

[Soxfest]

Rios is owed about $20 million through 2014. Sox executive vice president Ken Williams has become more involved in potential acquisitions and has scouted the minor leagues, according to a source.

 

I have said this earlier Hahn is not being given full reigns and KW would make final decisions. KW pulling rank is wrong let Hahn do his job.

[Dick Allen]

Rios is owed about $20 million through 2014. Sox executive vice president Ken Williams has become more involved in potential acquisitions and has scouted the minor leagues, according to a source.

 

I have said this earlier Hahn is not being given full reigns and KW would make final decisions. KW pulling rank is wrong let Hahn do his job.

If that is what is happening, and I take from the statement the same thing you do, I agree. Besides, trading veterans for prospects was never a KW strength.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Rios is owed about $20 million through 2014. Sox executive vice president Ken Williams has become more involved in potential acquisitions and has scouted the minor leagues, according to a source.

 

I have said this earlier Hahn is not being given full reigns and KW would make final decisions. KW pulling rank is wrong let Hahn do his job.

 

So did you give the lobsters back?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

It was said all along that KW would become more involved in minor league scouting. Since potential acquisitions for players like Rios are most likely minor league prospects, there is no news here.

[Buehrle>Wood]

He's still the vice president. He still has a job to do.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If that is what is happening, and I take from the statement the same thing you do, I agree. Besides, trading veterans for prospects was never a KW strength.

He was however a good dumpster diver. Danks, Floyd, Quintana, Quentin,Thornton among the pick ups KW got for scraps.

[Knackattack]

He was however a good dumpster diver. Danks, Floyd, Quintana, Quentin,Thornton among the pick ups KW got for scraps.

Danks for McCarthy who was a good prospect and Floyd was traded for Freddy Garcia after a decent year, plus both were top prospects with their clubs at the time. Quentin, Quintana and Thornton though, yes, good dumpster dives.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Knackattack

[Balta1701]

Danks for McCarthy who was a good prospect and Floyd was traded for Freddy Garcia after a decent year, plus both were top prospects with their clubs at the time. Quentin, Quintana and Thornton though, yes, good dumpster dives.

Floyd was the definition of dumpster-diving. He was literally a throw-in in that deal, the Phillies were probably on the verge of dumping him, he'd failed a couple times for them already.

[GreenSox]

Floyd was the definition of dumpster-diving. He was literally a throw-in in that deal, the Phillies were probably on the verge of dumping him, he'd failed a couple times for them already.

WE traded Garcia to get Gio back; but then Williams gave him to Oakland when he paid double any reasonable price for a decent hitter in Swisher.

 

Hopefully they are letting Hahn negotiate these trades.

Edited July 20, 2013 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

WE traded Garcia to get Gio back; but then Williams gave him to Oakland when he paid double any reasonable price for a decent hitter in Swisher.

 

Hopefully they are letting Hahn negotiate these trades.

Eh, that was a pretty fair price for Swisher. One near-MLB ready starter for a young power-hitter under team control for a long time, with a couple low-level pitchers.

 

The problem wasn't that we paid beyond any reasonable price, the problem wound up being that Swisher was awful.

[Jake]

Eh, that was a pretty fair price for Swisher. One near-MLB ready starter for a young power-hitter under team control for a long time, with a couple low-level pitchers.

 

The problem wasn't that we paid beyond any reasonable price, the problem wound up being that Swisher and/or Ozzie was awful.

 

[Marty34]

I talked to a Sox executive yesterday who told me it's not Kenny's job anymore. This is a Hahn operation.

[GGajewski18]

I talked to a Sox executive yesterday who told me it's not Kenny's job anymore. This is a Hahn operation.

 

Did you ask the executive what the Sox are looking at with trades?

[Marty34]

Did you ask the executive what the Sox are looking at with trades?

 

Couldn't even get a number of players he expects to go out of him. He's usually pretty straight forward too.

[GGajewski18]

Couldn't even get a number of players he expects to go out of him. He's usually pretty straight forward too.

 

Does that mean he has no clue, or expects major change?

[Marty34]

Does that mean he has no clue, or expects major change?

 

This guy would be in position to know. I took it as they have a lot of plates spinning and it's to early to even say how many players are going to be moved.

[GreenSox]

I talked to a Sox executive yesterday who told me it's not Kenny's job anymore. This is a Hahn operation.

Good.

Kenny had his moments of brilliance, but it was time for a change.

[witesoxfan]

Rios is owed about $20 million through 2014. Sox executive vice president Ken Williams has become more involved in potential acquisitions and has scouted the minor leagues, according to a source.

 

I have said this earlier Hahn is not being given full reigns and KW would make final decisions. KW pulling rank is wrong let Hahn do his job.

 

Yes, more involved in look at the players the Sox acquire. This is not news, so you can take your tin foil hat off.

 

WE traded Garcia to get Gio back; but then Williams gave him to Oakland when he paid double any reasonable price for a decent hitter in Swisher.

 

Hopefully they are letting Hahn negotiate these trades.

 

Yes, Williams said "We don't feel we're including enough in this trade, we need to give you Gonzalez too."

 

Orrrrrrrrrrr Gio Gonzalez was the main piece in the deal and Beane wanted him to send Ryan Sweeney and Fautino De Los Santos too.

[southsider2k5]

Yes, more involved in look at the players the Sox acquire. This is not news, so you can take your tin foil hat off.

 

 

 

Yes, Williams said "We don't feel we're including enough in this trade, we need to give you Gonzalez too."

 

Orrrrrrrrrrr Gio Gonzalez was the main piece in the deal and Beane wanted him to send Ryan Sweeney and Fautino De Los Santos too.

 

And also realize that the President of baseball Ops being involved in deals is normal. Look no further than the northside, and Theo.

[GreenSox]

Yes, more involved in look at the players the Sox acquire. This is not news, so you can take your tin foil hat off.

 

 

 

Yes, Williams said "We don't feel we're including enough in this trade, we need to give you Gonzalez too."

 

Orrrrrrrrrrr Gio Gonzalez was the main piece in the deal and Beane wanted him to send Ryan Sweeney and Fautino De Los Santos too.

That's nice. But that's pretty much what likely happened. Williams wanted Swisher, and Beane kept asking for more, and Williams gave in. I can't think of another example of a team giving up 3 of its top 5 prospects for a decent but non-all star hitter like Swisher. We did a similar thing when trading for Edwin Jackson.......Hopefully we can score a similar deal for Peavy.

 

 

[Balta1701]

That's nice. But that's pretty much what likely happened. Williams wanted Swisher, and Beane kept asking for more, and Williams gave in. I can't think of another example of a team giving up 3 of its top 5 prospects for a decent but non-all star hitter like Swisher. We did a similar thing when trading for Edwin Jackson.......Hopefully we can score a similar deal for Peavy.

"3 of its top 5 prospects" really is a silly way to describe the trade for Peavy because 1 of those prospects was actually a close to MLB-ready guy, but the others were "guys buried deep in the minors who were only our top prospects because there wasn't much in the system".

[GreenSox]

"3 of its top 5 prospects" really is a silly way to describe the trade for Peavy because 1 of those prospects was actually a close to MLB-ready guy, but the others were "guys buried deep in the minors who were only our top prospects because there wasn't much in the system".

Swisher - 2 were ML ready and one was our top pitching prospect in the low minors. And a lot of these prospects in the various top 50 lists, including many "untouchables" are still in A ball, so they have high value.

Williams was an aggressive GM....he gave a top 5 prospect in all of baseball plus a starting catcher for a good-not-great Freddie Garcia. He way overpaid, but it worked...the prospect was a bust and Garcia had a fine year in 2005. He then turned him into Gio and Floyd. He did all sorts of things -his top draft choice the year before was traded for a rent of either Everett or Alomar - forget which. But there's not a GM in baseball except perhaps Bryan Sabean who had the guts to do those deals that Williams made. Everyone's afraid of trading the next Bagwell.

 

But toward the end, his aggression started failing.

 

So anyway, as we're dumping veterans, perhaps there's a new Kenny W out there to trade with us.

Heck, the way prospects are valued, the real "value" very well may be in the veterans.

Edited July 22, 2013 by GreenSox

[witesoxfan]

Swisher - 2 were ML ready and one was our top pitching prospect in the low minors. And a lot of these prospects in the various top 50 lists, including many "untouchables" are still in A ball, so they have high value.

Williams was an aggressive GM....he gave a top 5 prospect in all of baseball plus a starting catcher for a good-not-great Freddie Garcia. He way overpaid, but it worked...the prospect was a bust and Garcia had a fine year in 2005. He then turned him into Gio and Floyd. He did all sorts of things -his top draft choice the year before was traded for a rent of either Everett or Alomar - forget which. But there's not a GM in baseball except perhaps Bryan Sabean who had the guts to do those deals that Williams made. Everyone's afraid of trading the next Bagwell.

 

But toward the end, his aggression started failing.

 

So anyway, as we're dumping veterans, perhaps there's a new Kenny W out there to trade with us.

Heck, the way prospects are valued, the real "value" very well may be in the veterans.

 

Reed was never a top 5 prospect in all of baseball. He was as high as 25. The most optimistic comparison I ever saw was to Tony Gwynn, but the more common comparison was Mark Kotsay. He never got close to that. If you are talking about Royce Ring, he was traded for Alomar. He did the most of any of those players traded for Alomar, and he did nothing, so maybe we should applaud Williams for realizing a bad draft choice and capitalizing on value while said player still had it.

 

There were very few trades I had any particular problems with that Williams made towards the end. I didn't like any of the Swisher trades, but the returns themselves are indirectly why. Instead, I don't and never have liked the idea of buying high on a player and selling low, thus the trade I disliked more - far, far more - was the 2nd Swisher trade. I liked the Vazquez trade, even if the return has become mediocre. The 2nd Jackson trade produced good value overall.

 

Oh, and the last statement you've made is the irony in all of this, because that's exactly how Williams felt and GM'ed.

[kitekrazy]

Kenny and Hahn are too different personalities. Kenny liked to deal and was more outspoken. Han is quiet and patient. We are not use to it.