Is Ventura the worst manager in the history of MLB?

[greg775]

Funny thing is Bevington or Kessinger actually might be the worst manager in history of MLB.

So the Sox did have the worst ever possibly.

[witesoxfan]

Funny thing is Bevington or Kessinger actually might be the worst manager in history of MLB.

So the Sox did have the worst ever possibly.

 

Bill Veeck had the fans manage for a game. They were given signs and were allowed to vote for options.

[Dick Allen]

Bill Veeck had the fans manage for a game. They were given signs and were allowed to vote for options.

Brooks Boyer used to try to get together a Patio Party for the White Sox message board groups. Core of the core or something he called it. He should have a promotion and let Soxtalk manage a game. It's a guaranteed win.

[VAfan]

I would count tonight's loss to the Twins as another game blown by the bad managing of Robin Ventura.

 

What is Bellisario doing coming in to start the 8th inning at home with a two run lead? The last time Carroll pitched against the Twins, just last week, Robin brought in Bellisario in the 7th inning with a 1-run lead. Guess what happened then? No outs, 3 baserunners, all of whom scored, in a 4-3 loss. That's the game that started this thread in the first place. (Only most of the criticism was focused on the way Ventura mismanaged the offense in the 9th, rather than the mistaken turn to Bellisario in a tight game.)

 

Tonight, with only one inning to get to the Sox closer, Robin turns to THE WORST CHOICE.

 

It's maddening. Sox should have won both games, and be a game over .500, instead of 3 games under. Just on THESE TWO GAMES.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones.

[greg775]

Greg has two qualifications for whether a player is great or horses***.

 

1: Were they on the 2005 White Sox? If yes, the player is great and will always be great and should be re-signed and given whatever amount of money for however many years they want. If they were not, they are horses***.

 

2: Are they a current Kansas City Royals player. If yes, the player is great and the Sox should trade for or sign him as a FA no matter the cost and comp picks attached. If the player does join the Sox, the player no longer meets one of the two qualifications and instantly becomes horses***.

 

There are obvious exceptions to every rule, but this is my general thoughts about Greg's player evaluation from the years I've been on this board.

 

I don't know where you got the Royals part of this equation. I'm sure some board regulars would back me up in that I despise the Royals players and do not want them on the Sox.

The only Royals I might want on the Sox are Perez, obviously, plus Holland and I guess Shields, though Shields is overrated right now IMO. I don't want Butler, don't want Moose, or Hosmer, etc. I don't want any of their starters except Ventura. Seriously, how did you miss so badly on part two of your two part answer?

 

I do love the 2005 Sox, but that's not a fair assertion either.

 

As far as Webb, the stats you guys provided me show me promise, thank goodness. I do think he's been a flameout in games that have been close this year. He's failed a ton of times. If he has potential, great, I could be mistaken. He's angered/saddened me many times this year, though.

Edited August 3, 2014 by greg775

[SCCWS]

I would count tonight's loss to the Twins as another game blown by the bad managing of Robin Ventura.

 

What is Bellisario doing coming in to start the 8th inning at home with a two run lead?

 

 

If he cannot come in at home to start the 8th w a 2 run lead, why the hell is he on the roster???? You should be pointing the finger at Hahn for having him on the roster.

[Dick Allen]

I would count tonight's loss to the Twins as another game blown by the bad managing of Robin Ventura.

 

What is Bellisario doing coming in to start the 8th inning at home with a two run lead? The last time Carroll pitched against the Twins, just last week, Robin brought in Bellisario in the 7th inning with a 1-run lead. Guess what happened then? No outs, 3 baserunners, all of whom scored, in a 4-3 loss. That's the game that started this thread in the first place. (Only most of the criticism was focused on the way Ventura mismanaged the offense in the 9th, rather than the mistaken turn to Bellisario in a tight game.)

 

Tonight, with only one inning to get to the Sox closer, Robin turns to THE WORST CHOICE.

 

It's maddening. Sox should have won both games, and be a game over .500, instead of 3 games under. Just on THESE TWO GAMES.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones.

Who should he have used? Except for Guerra, every relief pitcher he has put in the game the last 2 nights has been really shaky, and Guerra had pitched a couple games in a row.

Why don't you post a chart showing exactly when each relief pitcher should be used, so we all can be witness to your baseball genius.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Dick Allen

[oldsox]

Every team is going to have a few tough losses in a long season. RV mostly made ther right calls last night, especially on the bullpen side of things. just didn't work out this time. Not his fault Eaton got thrown out at second for the last out of the 8th.

 

If I were to criticize Robin for last night, it would center around not using Sierra, other than as a pinch runner right before Eaton's out at second. Sierra is good defensivly and is hot, so play him, but if he were in the game, he prob would have been in right field, so the botched play by ADA in left in the 8th would not have been changed. Not Robin's fault ADA botched the play. It not only lost the game, it made Belly's numbers look worse than what they would have looked.

 

The key plays were ADA's in left and Eaton's out at second and the fact that Suzuki got another big hit in the clutch. For the most part, other than Sierra riding the pine, RV had the Sox set up to succeed, not fail.

[Kyyle23]

I just can't be mad at bullpen usage anymore. They are all suspect, there is very rarely one better move than another, and it all seems to blow up in Robins face. When you add in how terrible the defense is, it is just a recipe for disaster at the end of every game

[JoshPR]

Good post. But some here wanna nit pick everything. Why is it ventura's fault that a guy paid millions to come in and get outs, doesn't do his job?

[southsider2k5]

I would count tonight's loss to the Twins as another game blown by the bad managing of Robin Ventura.

 

What is Bellisario doing coming in to start the 8th inning at home with a two run lead? The last time Carroll pitched against the Twins, just last week, Robin brought in Bellisario in the 7th inning with a 1-run lead. Guess what happened then? No outs, 3 baserunners, all of whom scored, in a 4-3 loss. That's the game that started this thread in the first place. (Only most of the criticism was focused on the way Ventura mismanaged the offense in the 9th, rather than the mistaken turn to Bellisario in a tight game.)

 

Tonight, with only one inning to get to the Sox closer, Robin turns to THE WORST CHOICE.

 

It's maddening. Sox should have won both games, and be a game over .500, instead of 3 games under. Just on THESE TWO GAMES.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones.

 

Who should have gone out there, exactly?

[LDF]

I just can't be mad at bullpen usage anymore. They are all suspect, there is very rarely one better move than another, and it all seems to blow up in Robins face. When you add in how terrible the defense is, it is just a recipe for disaster at the end of every game

 

I agree, but as I said before in other ways. we as sox fan has to either embrace that this team

is close and is rebuilding or go out and get the missing pieces. this team as is will not last long

in the playoff. we need to address those missing parts in the offseason.

 

its killing a lot of posters b/c we are close and it is a tease.

 

I am surprise that the chi fire isn't being blame on RV. everything else is.

[ron883]

Ozzie Guillen.

[southsider2k5]

Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 54m

 

At this point last year, White Sox were 27 games under .500. They're 3 under right now. They should be better. But that's big progress.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I just can't be mad at bullpen usage anymore. They are all suspect, there is very rarely one better move than another, and it all seems to blow up in Robins face. When you add in how terrible the defense is, it is just a recipe for disaster at the end of every game

 

This. There's not a single guy who you can say "Robin should have put ____ in with a 1 run lead instead of ___" and be right. All the bashing is done in hindsight.

 

 

Wasn't Belly in when De Aza botched that catch? He makes that catch we aren't saying a word about the decision.

[JoshPR]

Yeah but belly is still bad. And I'm a big Ventura backer

[2nd_city_saint787]

Yeah but belly is still bad. And I'm a big Ventura backer

 

Meh, there's not a guy I really trust more or less in that situation. Maybe Guerra but he's certainly not a lock to contain a 1 run lead either.

 

Belly has been hit or miss on a day to day bases. There's times where he looks fantastic, it just wasn't yesterday.

[Rowand44]

This. There's not a single guy who you can say "Robin should have put ____ in with a 1 run lead instead of ___" and be right. All the bashing is done in hindsight.

 

 

Wasn't Belly in when De Aza botched that catch? He makes that catch we aren't saying a word about the decision.

Nah that was Petricka. But I'm with you on your overall point.

[southsider2k5]

This. There's not a single guy who you can say "Robin should have put ____ in with a 1 run lead instead of ___" and be right. All the bashing is done in hindsight.

 

Wasn't Belly in when De Aza botched that catch? He makes that catch we aren't saying a word about the decision.

 

Bingo.

[greg775]

If he cannot come in at home to start the 8th w a 2 run lead, why the hell is he on the roster???? You should be pointing the finger at Hahn for having him on the roster.

Exactly.

 

I just can't be mad at bullpen usage anymore. They are all suspect, there is very rarely one better move than another, and it all seems to blow up in Robins face. When you add in how terrible the defense is, it is just a recipe for disaster at the end of every game

Exactly.

[Kyyle23]

Waiting for the next "OMG Robin blew the game he should have put someone else in with the lead because everybody knows Guerra was the WORSTEST CHOICE EVAR" Post

[2nd_city_saint787]

Waiting for the next "OMG Robin blew the game he should have put someone else in with the lead because everybody knows Guerra was the WORSTEST CHOICE EVAR" Post

 

Right. Wonder what VAfan has to say after this one.

[sin city sox fan]

This man has got to go. He's absolutely destroyed the confidence of every member of our bullpen.

[Dick Allen]

This man has got to go. He's absolutely destroyed the confidence of every member of our bullpen.

By using them?

[2nd_city_saint787]

This man has got to go. He's absolutely destroyed the confidence of every member of our bullpen.

 

LMAO. Good one. I knew the haters would come up with somethin.