greg775 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:33 AM) Billy Butler doesn't hit left handed can't play defense is slow hits for little power plays the same position as Sox best position player, eliminating any DH flexibility I still see zero reason why he would have been good for the Sox, thank you Billy Beane He's basically coming for nothing. Again 8-10 million is nothing today. Sox could have had a 28 year old guy who knows how to hit for NOTHING. What the hell did they pay Keppinger? Since the Sox can't compete for highly priced free agents, he would have been a perfect gamble. He's only 28. We've had slow as molasses type guys before. I think he would have looked great in our lineup if we are serious about ever winning again. WHo the hell are the Sox going to sign? They can't afford anybody hardly. Beane is an EXPERT. He is the Sabes god and he wanted Butler. I think this is sad the Sox obviously had zero interest. I really truly don't think Butler is gonna stop hitting at 28. Cell is perfect park for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 01:47 AM) He's basically coming for nothing. Again 8-10 million is nothing today. Sox could have had a 28 year old guy who knows how to hit for NOTHING. What the hell did they pay Keppinger? Since the Sox can't compete for highly priced free agents, he would have been a perfect gamble. He's only 28. We've had slow as molasses type guys before. I think he would have looked great in our lineup if we are serious about ever winning again. WHo the hell are the Sox going to sign? They can't afford anybody hardly. Beane is an EXPERT. He is the Sabes god and he wanted Butler. I think this is sad the Sox obviously had zero interest. I really truly don't think Butler is gonna stop hitting at 28. Cell is perfect park for him. The arguments about Butler are essentially the same as the ones surrounding Rasmus. Butler's more one-dimensional, of course reliably consistent offensively before this season but doesn't have a defensive position...Rasmus can play all 3 OF positions, and play the corners at above-average level...and has at least a 50/50 chance of outproducing Butler offensively going forward. THE BIGGEST factor is we need to find a LH hitter from either LF or DH. We could sign Morse for about the same or less than Butler and use Cabrera or Rasmus in LF, it's the same argument because Morse was much more productive offensively than Butler. Neither should be in the field. Probably the same with Torii Hunter as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 11:55 PM) I think the Sox blew it not getting involved with Billy Butler. He's cheap in today's standards and a genius like Beane was willing to go three years. He'd have been potentially dandy in the hitter-friendly Cell. I'm not saying Billy is a god, but it's the Sox type of signing. Taking a chance on a guy who had a bad year. He's only 28. He could have possibly gone on a nice six-year run on the South Side. He finally elevates a bit and we might have had a good DH. Also would have been nice to have him in 19 games a year vs. KC. Now I could be wrong if Billy gets fat and continues to not elevate, but I think if the Sox are gonna continue to be a small market team like they have been payroll wise, this signing made a lot of sense. Go after the 8-10 million buck a year guys. I'd say this is a fail by Hahn. Cause he's not going to get any of the mega contract type guys. p.s. I'm in favor of acquiring Torii Hunter now. Yes he's old, but same reasoning as Butler. Figure you can get him 6-10 million a year for two years or one year and an option year. That is a lot of money for Billy Butler. That is a helluva lot of money for Torii Hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Joel Perralta traded from TB to LAD http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2014/11/21/725...-deal-with-rays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 01:47 AM) He's basically coming for nothing. Again 8-10 million is nothing today. Sox could have had a 28 year old guy who knows how to hit for NOTHING. What the hell did they pay Keppinger? Since the Sox can't compete for highly priced free agents, he would have been a perfect gamble. He's only 28. We've had slow as molasses type guys before. I think he would have looked great in our lineup if we are serious about ever winning again. WHo the hell are the Sox going to sign? They can't afford anybody hardly. Beane is an EXPERT. He is the Sabes god and he wanted Butler. I think this is sad the Sox obviously had zero interest. I really truly don't think Butler is gonna stop hitting at 28. Cell is perfect park for him. lmao. First Billy Beane is not a god. Second, just because he did something doesn't mean it's going to be widely praised because he's Billy Beane. Sabermetricians don't worship people like gods, that's the exact opposite of what sabermetrics is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) Joel Perralta traded from TB to LAD http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2014/11/21/725...-deal-with-rays I don't get that move by LA. Maybe going to the NL West will buy Peralta another couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 How do you know the White Sox didn't have interest in Billy Butler? Maybe they did but didn't want to sign a fat ("if Billy gets fat"...please, he already is), slow, right handed hitter whose power is declining and adds nothing defensively on a 3 year contract worth $10 mill a year. His value isn't that far off of Adam Dunn's except that he trades a few of those walks and home runs for singles and doubles. Billy Beane is also not a SABES GOD. He makes mistakes and bad moves and they can be criticized too. I think signing Billy Butler to a 3 year, $30 million deal is absolutely a bad move, but any and all moves can work. Torii Hunter is almost 40 and should also be a DH moving forward. He had a knack for making phenomenal plays early in his career, but he's an absolutely dreadful defensive outfielder at this point in his career. The word sabes is still ridiculous, by the way. Frankly, I can't take you seriously anymore greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 MLB Trade Rumors @mlbtraderumors 19m19 minutes ago Braves Shopping Justin Upton; Asking Price Higher Than Heyward http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/?p=43930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 MLB @MLB 31m31 minutes ago The Yasmany Tomas sweepstakes heats up. @Braves, @Padres lead pursuit: http://atmlb.com/1ujGSbG #HotStove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) How do you know the White Sox didn't have interest in Billy Butler? Maybe they did but didn't want to sign a fat ("if Billy gets fat"...please, he already is), slow, right handed hitter whose power is declining and adds nothing defensively on a 3 year contract worth $10 mill a year. His value isn't that far off of Adam Dunn's except that he trades a few of those walks and home runs for singles and doubles. Billy Beane is also not a SABES GOD. He makes mistakes and bad moves and they can be criticized too. I think signing Billy Butler to a 3 year, $30 million deal is absolutely a bad move, but any and all moves can work. Torii Hunter is almost 40 and should also be a DH moving forward. He had a knack for making phenomenal plays early in his career, but he's an absolutely dreadful defensive outfielder at this point in his career. The word sabes is still ridiculous, by the way. Frankly, I can't take you seriously anymore greg. He's only 28. And he's not fat yet. Beane is regarded as king of Sabes. Sorry if you don't like the term, but I think the rest of my post makes sense, especially the part about the Sox needing to sign the cheaper free agents who still have upside. If Butler was 34, sure I'd agree he's worthless. I'm not crazy about Hunter as I was signing Butler, but I think Torii for one year might help and he fits into the affordable category as well. One year six million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Jon Morosi @jonmorosi 2m2 minutes ago Sources: #Rays have made Matt Joyce available on trade market and have had some talks with other clubs. He is comparable to Jay Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 02:02 PM) He's only 28. And he's not fat yet. Beane is regarded as king of Sabes. Sorry if you don't like the term, but I think the rest of my post makes sense, especially the part about the Sox needing to sign the cheaper free agents who still have upside. If Butler was 34, sure I'd agree he's worthless. I'm not crazy about Hunter as I was signing Butler, but I think Torii for one year might help and he fits into the affordable category as well. One year six million. You're right, he's not fat, he's a perfect physical specimen. Billy Beane is not regarded as the king of "Sabes," that title would belong to Bill James, if anyone. Also, Dude, sabes is not the preferred nomenclature. Sabermetrics. Signing a player for one year who is gong to cost $6-10 million who the Sox will not trade at the deadline would be among the most pointless moves they could make and is the definition of spending money just to spend money. Torii Hunter makes as much sense for the White Sox right now as Michael Jordan does in that, at one point in time, they were both outfielders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Jayson Stark @jaysonst 2m2 minutes ago My look at #Braves rebuilding plan - including unique way they tried to find teams to deal for BJ Upton http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=119...LGPAOv1DR%22%7D … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 02:36 PM) You're right, he's not fat, he's a perfect physical specimen. Billy Beane is not regarded as the king of "Sabes," that title would belong to Bill James, if anyone. Also, Dude, sabes is not the preferred nomenclature. Sabermetrics. Signing a player for one year who is gong to cost $6-10 million who the Sox will not trade at the deadline would be among the most pointless moves they could make and is the definition of spending money just to spend money. Torii Hunter makes as much sense for the White Sox right now as Michael Jordan does in that, at one point in time, they were both outfielders. Political correctness at it's worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) He's only 28. And he's not fat yet. Beane is regarded as king of Sabes. Sorry if you don't like the term, but I think the rest of my post makes sense, especially the part about the Sox needing to sign the cheaper free agents who still have upside. If Butler was 34, sure I'd agree he's worthless. I'm not crazy about Hunter as I was signing Butler, but I think Torii for one year might help and he fits into the affordable category as well. One year six million. Dudes he's fat. There's also a well-supported precedent of fat dudes getting bad real fast around age 30. This is rate of change of combined component runs, so it's basically WAR: EDIT: Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-will-prince-fielder-age/ Edited November 21, 2014 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) Dudes he's fat. There's also a well-supported precedent of fat dudes getting bad real fast around age 30. This is rate of change of combined component runs, so it's basically WAR: EDIT: Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-will-prince-fielder-age/ This graphs only applies if you want him in the field as it considers position and uzr as well as hitting. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out if your are short and overweight you aren't going to be a good fielder at most positions. I wonder what it would look like if you are looking at a dh, so only hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 04:41 PM) This graphs only applies if you want him in the field as it considers position and uzr as well as hitting. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out if your are short and overweight you aren't going to be a good fielder at most positions. I wonder what it would look like if you are looking at a dh, so only hitting. It includes positional adjustment, which factors his production in relation to DH. This would include zeroes for defensive value for DHs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 02:36 PM) You're right, he's not fat, he's a perfect physical specimen. Billy Beane is not regarded as the king of "Sabes," that title would belong to Bill James, if anyone. Also, Dude, sabes is not the preferred nomenclature. Sabermetrics. Signing a player for one year who is gong to cost $6-10 million who the Sox will not trade at the deadline would be among the most pointless moves they could make and is the definition of spending money just to spend money. Torii Hunter makes as much sense for the White Sox right now as Michael Jordan does in that, at one point in time, they were both outfielders. MARK IT AN EIGHT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Rays down to three managerial candidates- Kevin Cash, Don Wakamatsu, and Raul Ibanez. I would think Dave Martinez will ask to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) It includes positional adjustment, which factors his production in relation to DH. This would include zeroes for defensive value for DHs It said it include UZR is it negated as well. If so, how can you have one stat that uses multiple nulls for different variables and still maintain it's validity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:55 PM) I think the Sox blew it not getting involved with Billy Butler...... Honestly, I thought the White Sox would sign him . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 QUOTE (Benchwarmerjim @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:10 PM) Honestly, I thought the White Sox would sign him . Honestly I thought he'd get less than half that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Cubs, White Sox Could Contend For Arizona Catcher http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/21/lev...rizona-catcher/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Way to go Levine. Write another article about something fans already know about. f***ing coat-tail rider. What an imbicile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 02:03 PM) Jon Morosi @jonmorosi 2m2 minutes ago Sources: #Rays have made Matt Joyce available on trade market and have had some talks with other clubs. He is comparable to Jay Bruce. I like Joyce. Unfortunately, he can't hit lefties at all. The Rays used him in a platoon most of the time. He would make a nice platoon partner for Viciedo. Unfortunately, Dayan actually hit worse against lefties last year somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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