Your 2015 Offseason Plan

[harfman77]

There are so many variables that can come into play that there is not much sense in having this discussion yet. IF Rodon comes up and shows he belongs I am sure RH will try to initiate some extension talks. If Rodon/Boras decline, he will still be a White Sox for the next four seasons, after which point he will again be offered an extension and if he declines he will likely be dealt. Or he could fail miserably have a couple TJ surgeries and be out of baseball in 5 years.

[BlackSox13]

1) Rodon is just as likely to stay here as he is to leave.

 

2) Montas as of right now is not headed to the bullpen.

Agreed on both counts.

 

If Rodon's agent was an issue the Sox would have drafted someone else. The whole Boras thing is old for f*** sake. Hahn is the GM now and has said he has a good repore with Boras so its time to move forward from the KW vs Bora's days.

 

Montas just made his way to AA at the end of the season so to pencil him into the Sox opening day roster is just a bit premature.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

None of this matters right now. By the time Rodon is testing free agency, our situation will be drastically different. We cannot predict what we'll need or not need in 6 years.

 

Right now, it's this: Keeping him down for two weeks delays his free agency by a year. Keeping him down for three months avoids Super Two. It costs SO little to get that extra year of control that we should definitely do that, almost no matter what he does in the Spring. Beyond two weeks though, we should let his development dictate his promotion path. Avoiding Super Two saves us maybe $5-6m if everything goes right all the time with his career, and if everything goes right all the time, we'll gladly pay an extra five million bucks.

 

I cannot see any argument at all to stick him in the bullpen for any amount of time, other than Steve Stone frequently mentions that it was a common practice in the 70's or whatever.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[BaconOnAStick]

There are so many variables that can come into play that there is not much sense in having this discussion yet. IF Rodon comes up and shows he belongs I am sure RH will try to initiate some extension talks. If Rodon/Boras decline, he will still be a White Sox for the next four seasons, after which point he will again be offered an extension and if he declines he will likely be dealt. Or he could fail miserably have a couple TJ surgeries and be out of baseball in 5 years.

Let's order likelihoods here:

 

50% Rodon blows out his arm or under performs and the big pay day that's was so dreaded never matierializes.

15% Rodon plays well. Decides he doesn't want to risk arm injury for 3 or 4 more seasons before hitting free agency so takes a Sale-like deal.

15% 4 or 5 seasons pass, the guy is dominant and seems intent on getting paid big. The Sox get the world from some team in a trade.

15% Boras gets fired by Rodon.

5% He just walks. The Sox get a draft pick (if that's even still a thing in 2022 or 2021).

Edited October 17, 2014 by BaconOnAStick

[LDF]

Agreed on both counts.

If Rodon's agent was an issue the Sox would have drafted someone else. The whole Boras thing is old for f*** sake. Hahn is the GM now and has said he has a good repore with Boras so its time to move forward from the KW vs Bora's days.

 

Montas just made his way to AA at the end of the season so to pencil him into the Sox opening day roster is just a bit premature.

 

with the salary cap on draft picks took a lot out of the negotiating

for more money. still do you really want to take that

chance?

 

well obviously you do, but you can not denied there is history. and if

some want to key on it, you can not fault anyone.

Edited October 17, 2014 by LDF

[BaconOnAStick]

Agreed on both counts.

 

If Rodon's agent was an issue the Sox would have drafted someone else. The whole Boras thing is old for f*** sake. Hahn is the GM now and has said he has a good repore with Boras so its time to move forward from the KW vs Bora's days.

 

Montas just made his way to AA at the end of the season so to pencil him into the Sox opening day roster is just a bit premature.

As of now the White Sox have nothing to even pin hope on in the pen and it's not like we have any reason to believe Miller or Robertson will be in the Sox price range.

 

Montas has a huge fastball and a very good slider. Why not just try and cash him in now? Especially when the pitching depth through the org is improving so rapidly.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

It's tough to assume Rodon breaks camp in the White Sox rotation. Give him the Sale trearment, let him work a year in the pen to get himself together then once he's ready put him in the rotation. I don't care about service time, I care about making him a good pitcher for us.

 

As for Montas, he's headed to the pen anyways so why not get him in a leverage role now?

 

 

I thought I addressed both of these in the earlier post. Those are both terrible ideas. They also won't happen so I won't waste my time discussing it any further.

[Y2Jimmy0]

As of now the White Sox have nothing to even pin hope on in the pen and it's not like we have any reason to believe Miller or Robertson will be in the Sox price range.

 

Montas has a huge fastball and a very good slider. Why not just try and cash him in now? Especially when the pitching depth through the org is improving so rapidly.

 

 

Stop. Just stop. Why not cash him in now? Because frontline starters are much more important than relief pitchers. Why would you just say "ahh screw it, make him a reliever". It doesn't make any sense.

[harfman77]

Agreed on both counts.

 

If Rodon's agent was an issue the Sox would have drafted someone else. The whole Boras thing is old for f*** sake. Hahn is the GM now and has said he has a good repore with Boras so its time to move forward from the KW vs Bora's days.

 

Montas just made his way to AA at the end of the season so to pencil him into the Sox opening day roster is just a bit premature.

 

The Boras issue wasn't KW's it was (and is) JR's. When Hahn called Boras his friend he was pretty clearly being sarcastic. There is history between the two sides and that cannot really be disputed.

 

That being said, they are all professionals and adults and neither side is going to sabotage their success by holding a grudge over doing their jobs.

[Eminor3rd]

Media memes die SO slow.

 

Clearly, our team has no problem dealing with Boras at this point. We can all see that now, right?

[harfman77]

As of now the White Sox have nothing to even pin hope on in the pen and it's not like we have any reason to believe Miller or Robertson will be in the Sox price range.

 

Montas has a huge fastball and a very good slider. Why not just try and cash him in now? Especially when the pitching depth through the org is improving so rapidly.

 

The Sox should not pay for Miller, he will get way too much money for a RP. Production of RP's tends to fluctuate to greatly year to year and organization to organization to warrant the contract that he will demand.

 

Robertson is allegedly getting a QO and will be out of everyones price range.

 

Montas has the ability to be a #1, you don't abandon that until he shows that he won't make it there. If he fizzles as a starter than you consider making a move, but not until then.

[LDF]

The Boras issue wasn't KW's it was (and is) JR's. When Hahn called Boras his friend he was pretty clearly being sarcastic. There is history between the two sides and that cannot really be disputed.

 

That being said, they are all professionals and adults and neither side is going to sabotage their success by holding a grudge over doing their jobs.

 

excellent, and yes, it was that agent and his draft players before the

Alex Fernadez thingy.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Media memes die SO slow.

 

Clearly, our team has no problem dealing with Boras at this point. We can all see that now, right?

We may not have a problem dealing with Boras like we used to, but that doesn't change the fact that he typically takes his clients to free agency and attempts to get top dollar for them. And quite frankly, he's very successful at doing that.

 

The reality is if Rodon is as good as advertised, he's likely going to get a contract in free agency that will be above our risk tolerance. I'm actually quite astonished this many people are finding this notion hard to believe.

[LDF]

We may not have a problem dealing with Boras like we used to, but that doesn't change the fact that he typically takes his clients to free agency and attempts to get top dollar for them. And quite frankly, he's very successful at doing that.

 

The reality is if Rodon is as good as advertised, he's likely going to get a contract in free agency that will be above our risk tolerance. I'm actually quite astonished this many people are finding this notion hard to believe.

 

 

just wait until i tell them, i would value Rodon for 3 yrs and trade him and

his agent for prospect and needs.

 

ha

[BlackSox13]

with the salary cap on draft picks took a lot out of the negotiating

for more money. still do you really want to take that

chance?

 

well obviously you do, but you can not denied there is history. and if

some want to key on it, you can not fault anyone.

That history was between KW and Bora's. Let it go and move on. The Sox easily could have drafted Finnegan or Nola if Boras really was an issue and probably could have gotten Finnegan or Nola for slot or under instead of going over to get Rodon. This shows the Sox have no fear of Bora's as they have shown in the past.

 

As of now the White Sox have nothing to even pin hope on in the pen and it's not like we have any reason to believe Miller or Robertson will be in the Sox price range.

 

Montas has a huge fastball and a very good slider. Why not just try and cash him in now? Especially when the pitching depth through the org is improving so rapidly.

Montas has tremendous potential and value as a starter so why inhibit that by making him a reliever? Montas only had 5IP in AA,lol. Its easier to find a reliever then find a potential front line starter. Have some patience and let him develope. This is baseball, not Christmas. Its quite possible the 2016 rotation is Sale, Q,Rodon, Montas, Noesi/ Danks.

[LDF]

~1. That history was between KW and Bora's. Let it go and move on. The Sox easily could have ~2. drafted Finnegan or Nola if Boras really was an issue and probably could have gotten Finnegan or Nola for slot or under instead of going over to get Rodon. ~3. This shows the Sox have no fear of Bora's as they have shown in the past.

 

 

Montas has tremendous potential and value as a starter so why inhibit that by making him a reliever? Montas only had 5IP in AA,lol. Its easier to find a reliever then find a potential front line starter. Have some patience and let him develope. This is baseball, not Christmas. Its quite possible the 2016 rotation is Sale, Q,Rodon, Montas, Noesi/ Danks.

 

re: 1. why? i like to hate and hold grudges. i get bored quickly.

 

2. you can not use a what if to prove a point or an discussion.

 

3. yes there was, all the way to the day of the draft. many had the

sox not drafting Rodon b/c of the history. 2 thing pervented from happening

1. Hahn believe he could get it done.

2. salary cap and the new drafting rules.

 

re: why worry about Montas now. let him develop. he may still be a

starter.

Edited October 17, 2014 by LDF

[Quin]

Let's order likelihoods here:

 

50% Rodon blows out his arm or under performs and the big pay day that's was so dreaded never matierializes.

15% Rodon plays well. Decides he doesn't want to risk arm injury for 3 or 4 more seasons before hitting free agency so takes a Sale-like deal.

15% 4 or 5 seasons pass, the guy is dominant and seems intent on getting paid big. The Sox get the world from some team in a trade.

15% Boras gets fired by Rodon.

5% He just walks. The Sox get a draft pick (if that's even still a thing in 2022 or 2021).

 

I'm interested as to where you got your statistical data from.

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

This discussion is ridiculous....what if we can't afford a pitcher who hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB yet in 5-6 years because he's really good? Really? This is what some of you guys worry about? Unless you have a crystal ball nobody has any clue what will be going on at that time so there's no point in worrying about. If Rodon earns a $100+M contract it can only be a good thing for the White Sox organization, any other thinking is just flat out unnecessarily negative. Heck let's be honest, we don't even know if we will have the same owner in 5-6 years. Anything can happen so relax and just cross your fingers Rodon lives up to his hype.

[LDF]

This discussion is ridiculous....what if we can't afford a pitcher who hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB yet in 5-6 years because he's really good? Really? This is what some of you guys worry about? Unless you have a crystal ball nobody has any clue what will be going on at that time so there's no point in worrying about. If Rodon earns a $100+M contract it can only be a good thing for the White Sox organization, any other thinking is just flat out unnecessarily negative. Heck let's be honest, we don't even know if we will have the same owner in 5-6 years. Anything can happen so relax and just cross your fingers Rodon lives up to his hype.

 

you are right, don't get me wrong. i respect what you are saying. but....

 

what else is there to talk about?

the wx?

the sCrubs?

someone kicking someone dog on this site?

 

it is all fun.

[GGajewski18]

you are right, don't get me wrong. i respect what you are saying. but....

 

what else is there to talk about?

the wx?

the sCrubs?

someone kicking someone dog on this site?

 

it is all fun.

 

How about possible line ups for next season?

 

That's what the thread is about.

[BaconOnAStick]

Don't be so blinded by trying to maximize Montas' value.

 

The White Sox have at least some starting pitchers. The White Sox have nobody, literally nobody, who can be relied on out of the pen. They're not paying for someone either, we know that much.

 

Montas might have more value as a starter for the other 29 teams in baseball, but the Sox have the glaringest of needs in the bullpen. Plus pitching out of the pen should substantially reduce his injury risk.

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm on the Markakis bandwagon. Yea he's nothing more than an average starter, but an average starter at LF is exactly what Chicago needs. Also, he's at least 10 runs better defensively than Viciedo, that alone is worth 1 win. If he can be had for 3/45 I do it. The pick is protected if they offer him the qualifying.

 

edit: nm, his defense is awful. Someone on BTF was pumping up his defense. B-Ref and Fangraphs both hate it, and are consistent in hating him. No thanks.

Edited October 17, 2014 by chitownsportsfan

[Balta1701]

Don't be so blinded by trying to maximize Montas' value.

 

The White Sox have at least some starting pitchers. The White Sox have nobody, literally nobody, who can be relied on out of the pen. They're not paying for someone either, we know that much.

 

Montas might have more value as a starter for the other 29 teams in baseball, but the Sox have the glaringest of needs in the bullpen. Plus pitching out of the pen should substantially reduce his injury risk.

I would be surprised if they don't pay decent money to add some stability to the bullpen this year.

[Eminor3rd]

We may not have a problem dealing with Boras like we used to, but that doesn't change the fact that he typically takes his clients to free agency and attempts to get top dollar for them. And quite frankly, he's very successful at doing that.

 

The reality is if Rodon is as good as advertised, he's likely going to get a contract in free agency that will be above our risk tolerance. I'm actually quite astonished this many people are finding this notion hard to believe.

 

So what? 98% of big free agent pitcher contracts turn out TERRIBLE. Let's take his six best years and let some other team deal with him.

[oldsox]

Re: Cargo. There is a Colorado based Blog called the Purple Row that writes some pretty good stuff. They certainly are not afraid to criticize the Rockies. They just started a series of ranking their players 1 through 45. They are now down to #38. Cargo was # 41. He had a cyst removed from his finger and major surgery on his patellar tendon. Plus, they had to remove some junk from under the knee cap. Don't ask me how they do that. My point is that his health is a major issue.