Balta1701 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 09:45 AM) One thing of note, Gates' religious point of view change came with the birth of his first child. He was generally, and accurately, described as non religious (waste of time on Sunday when you could be working) or even an atheist. How many non religious based shelters do you find around a city? Food pantries? That's my main point. Churches generally are a gathering spot for communities to do good deeds directly in the community. As a nation we just don't have time for civic and fraternal groups like we use to. The Masons, Elks, Moose, etc all have declining memberships. But as I noted, how many nonreligious shelters or food pantries could you fund with the several hundred billion dollars per year that goes to churches in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) But as I noted, how many nonreligious shelters or food pantries could you fund with the several hundred billion dollars per year that goes to churches in this country? Judging by how few dollars from most of the existing non-profits around the country end up where they are supposed to go, I am guessing that wouldn't be a net positive, even if you operate under the assumption that dollars that currently go to churches would be funneled to other causes on an equal basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I'm not a big Obama fan, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to go to the service in France. I won't criticize him for that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 05:02 PM) I'm not a big Obama fan, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to go to the service in France. I won't criticize him for that decision. The VP or at least the SecState or at least the Attorney General already in the **** country should have shown up. Yes it was a stupid photo op, they weren't even at the real march, and it's difficult to get the President there, but that's why we have others in the cabinet, to do silly photo ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) But as I noted, how many nonreligious shelters or food pantries could you fund with the several hundred billion dollars per year that goes to churches in this country? Who are you going to raise taxes on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) Who are you going to raise taxes on? Don't forget the special non-profit status of churches....and that donations are tax-deductible. OTOH, having a privatized or government-run soup kitchen, even it was done more cost-efficiently (and I'm dubious about that) would have a couple of disadvantages. 1) It wouldn't benefit from any of the volunteer spirit that underpins most non-profit initiatives...turning a mission or calling into just an ordinary, low-paid salaried position doesn't seem like it would have the same type of impact on service recipients. 2) Running programs from the state capitol or Washington, D.C., you lose more and more of the targeted "neighborhood solution" feel and it quickly evolves into another bureucracy, like AFDC/WIC. Those agencies are about as well-liked as the IRS and the Driver's License Bureau. 3) If I'm running a soup kitchen with donated monies and my own funds, I'm much more likely to not be wasteful than someone working for the government, because I'm not incentivized to do anything but keep my job and exert the minimum effort required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 07:44 PM) Who are you going to raise taxes on? Our discussion was "who is going to replace churches as a social welfare organization". Churches receive like half a trillion dollars a year in this country, in addition to nearly $100 billion in public subsidies. Their land and salaries are by far the largest charity in this country. In the event that there was no such thing as a church, even if overall donations decreased, that is a huge pool of potential additional money for "good works" or however you described it. What the final math would be regarding how much money would go to improving the nation I do not know, but neither do you. Therefore, you don't get to say "But without religion who would do good works?" Religion does good works while taking a large slice off the top to sustain itself. That makes it an inefficient way of doing good works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2015 -> 08:29 PM) Our discussion was "who is going to replace churches as a social welfare organization". Churches receive like half a trillion dollars a year in this country, in addition to nearly $100 billion in public subsidies. Their land and salaries are by far the largest charity in this country. In the event that there was no such thing as a church, even if overall donations decreased, that is a huge pool of potential additional money for "good works" or however you described it. What the final math would be regarding how much money would go to improving the nation I do not know, but neither do you. Therefore, you don't get to say "But without religion who would do good works?" Religion does good works while taking a large slice off the top to sustain itself. That makes it an inefficient way of doing good works. Again that sounds like very large not-for-profit in this country. Sounds like our government too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) The alternative is the government version of the Wal-Mart approach to doing business, translated to a not-for-profit environment. One would have to believe that's not possible, not with the scale and scope necessary to make purchasing more cost-efficient. If there's any hope, it has to come from a private endowment (probably The Gates Foundation) coming up with a unique solution by thinking outside of the box. Or maybe it's the charity version of Amazon.com, with all the services bundled together in one place. Incredibly difficult to execute in reality. Edited January 15, 2015 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 By taking away the tax break to churches, you are increasing taxes on the people who attend church. People who attend the church would have to contribute more to keep the doors open, fund the various ministries, projects, community projects, etc. The party that does that loses a lot of voters in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 You guys are finding the money, now figure out where all the volunteers and buildings come from. Who are you giving the money to and who are they responsible to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Oops: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=785288...1243638341& Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) You guys are finding the money, now figure out where all the volunteers and buildings come from. Who are you giving the money to and who are they responsible to? No one volunteers their time for anything other than churches? Come on Tex, we've clearly reached what I would call an unbreakable stalemate where neither one can prove their case because we've got one system and we can't get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Oops: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=785288...1243638341& I honestly don't get the point of posting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 12:14 PM) I honestly don't get the point of posting this. Reveling in their stupidity of glorifying a murderer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 01:22 PM) Reveling in their stupidity of glorifying a murderer? I'm trying to find out if it's even real. You can see a body still wrapped in white near the end of the video. But if it is, then yes, that's what i'm doing. Moron suicide bomber ends up killing his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 15, 2015 -> 02:03 PM) I'm trying to find out if it's even real. You can see a body still wrapped in white near the end of the video. But if it is, then yes, that's what i'm doing. Moron suicide bomber ends up killing his own. That's what I thought, just helping GoSox out a bit. Love it when terrorists have 'work place accidents'. No OSHA for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Were they really saying praise be to allah after the bomber blew up his own people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 From what I can find on that video. It was a 2012 funeral in Syria and a car bomb went off. More than likely it was from pro Assad forces. World powers agree on steps for Syria; blast shatters funeral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 http://cnnmon.ie/1yt7b4C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I've been struggling to read a comprehensive piece on the Belgian police raid, but it seems like European powers are all on high alert that coordinated attacks may happen at once. I'm really hoping it's all noise. Thoughts go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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