White Sox cuts, round 2

[southsider2k5]

Like him or dislike him, the point of outrighting Leury isn't just to give up on him, it's to make room on the 40-man for players who are going to have a much clearer impact on the team in 2015. In that context, it doesn't make sense to protect Leury's roster spot while sacrificing major league wins in 2015. Somebody, probably several somebodies, will have to go, and Leury is low man on the totem pole.

 

There are about half a dozen guys that will go before Leury goes. The speed factor will keep him around for at least a while. If others keep developing, it will speed that process up, especially if Garcia doesn't hit at all.

[Balta1701]

A .650 OPS is 251 points above where Garcia was last year. To give some depth to how much improvement that is, adding 250 points to Bonifacios OPS would get you up to Miguel Cabrera. (actually .895)

 

 

We could totally go off of the .475 OPS he put in the majors in 2013.

At age 21 in AA, Leury got 400 PAs and put up a .734 OPS. Age 22 he got 1/2 a minor league season and put up a .708 OPS while spending >1/2 the year with big league teams as a fillin.

 

At age 22, Bonifacio got to AA for the first time and put up a .685 OPS. Leury was a year younger when he arrived at AA and outhit Bonifacio, except Bonifacio got 600 PA that year.

 

Bonifacio then went to AAA the next year at age 23 and put up a .758 OPS again in a full season.

 

Leury got to AA faster than Bonifacio and outhit him that first year there. The difference is that then Leury got called up immediately whereas Bonifacio had time to actually play. Bonifacio got 1200 PAs over 2 minor league seasons while Leury got 650 and a lot of time on the big league bench.

 

These two aren't that different based on minor league #s. Their averages, slugging, OBP, walk rate, and K Rate are close enough that you could make up the difference by "one guy being a year older and more disciplined at the same level" or even just "chance of the pitchers he's facing" for the guy who only got 1/2 seasons.

 

Leury hasn't had a successful season like Bonifacio had at AAA but he's never had a full season at AAA. Maybe Leury will be forever doomed, early callups and lack of playing time could easily do that to a guy, but I've got absolutely no reason from their minor league numbers why you'd say "Bonifacio will be a guy we spend big league money on as a FA and Leury Garcia is a wasteland we should give up on."

[Balta1701]

This is what people are missing here... how do you get Leury a full season of AAA AB's? Who of Davidson, Saladino and Sanchez do you remove playing time from to give it to him? No one, for me.

Leury ought to work as an actual super-sub. Every one of those guys along with the OFs can sit one day a week. That's 5-6 games Leury could play a week, and that's assuming no one gets hurt which will happen at some poitn.

[caulfield12]

Leury ought to work as an actual super-sub. Every one of those guys along with the OFs can sit one day a week. That's 5-6 games Leury could play a week, and that's assuming no one gets hurt which will happen at some poitn.

 

 

He should get lots of OF time as well.

 

Nobody to really block at AAA.

 

Thompson, Mitchell, Beltre....Campana and Taylor are gone already.

Edited March 24, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

He should get lots of OF time as well.

 

Nobody to really block at AAA.

 

Thompson, Mitchell, Beltre....Campana and Taylor are gone already.

Thompson and Mitchell aren't at AAA? Did I miss them getting outrighted last week?

 

[ptatc]

Like him or dislike him, the point of outrighting Leury isn't just to give up on him, it's to make room on the 40-man for players who are going to have a much clearer impact on the team in 2015. In that context, it doesn't make sense to protect Leury's roster spot while sacrificing major league wins in 2015. Somebody, probably several somebodies, will have to go, and Leury is low man on the totem pole.

Guys like Wilkins, Black and any number of relievers are lower on the ladder than Garcia. The sox are set at 1B and DH for a while.

[caulfield12]

Thompson and Mitchell aren't at AAA? Did I miss them getting outrighted last week?

 

Projecting....or Shuck and Viciedo could join them.

Edited March 24, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Projecting....or Shuck and Viciedo could join them.

WTF? I know Viciedo is gone, that happened weeks ago. I was busy for a couple days and now it's become completely impossible to understand your name dropping. You're dropping names of people we released in the same sentence as people still on the roster and I have no idea which is which.

 

Does anyone have an actual list of OFs in Charlotte? Are Mitchell and Thompson in our minor league camp? I can't figure this out any more.

[NorthSideSox72]

Leury ought to work as an actual super-sub. Every one of those guys along with the OFs can sit one day a week. That's 5-6 games Leury could play a week, and that's assuming no one gets hurt which will happen at some poitn.

 

Someone answered! Yes that makes sense. Put him through waivers, if he makes it through, do that.

[Buehrlesque]

Guys like Wilkins, Black and any number of relievers are lower on the ladder than Garcia. The sox are set at 1B and DH for a while.

I disagree with the Wilkins part. If LaRoche goes down to injury, who backs him up as a LH 1B/DH? I'd say Wilkins is blocked, but in line for a promotion sooner than Leury, who is blocked by several middle infielders.

[caulfield12]

WTF? I know Viciedo is gone, that happened weeks ago. I was busy for a couple days and now it's become completely impossible to understand your name dropping. You're dropping names of people we released in the same sentence as people still on the roster and I have no idea which is which.

 

Does anyone have an actual list of OFs in Charlotte? Are Mitchell and Thompson in our minor league camp? I can't figure this out any more.

 

 

Im thinking ahead....Viciedo at .241 with just one ribbie, no homers and mid 600s OPS this spring for Toronto.

 

If he gets cut again, looking at our likely Charlotte OF, I have a feeling Hahn asks him back as insurance policy.

 

 

Theres no list that im aware of....but has to be Thompson Mitchell Engel Beltre and possibly Shuck if we pick up another player in the final two weeks.

Thats why Leury or even Viciedo should be options. Id rather give dh at bats to Dayan than Wilkins or Black as well.

Edited March 24, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Guys like Wilkins, Black and any number of relievers are lower on the ladder than Garcia. The sox are set at 1B and DH for a while.

 

yeah, time to start thinning out the ranks, outright them, too bad it wasn't earlier so they at least had a chance with another team.

[Chisoxfn]

He is not even going to play every day in the minors.

Between Saladino, Sanchez, and Leury there are plenty of at bats to go around (in addition to the DH position and having those guys play in the outfield). The reality is all of them are most likely utility candidates and all have their own unique skillsets. The position Leury was put in was an almost impossible position to succeed in last year but his defensive tools are far greater than Saladino or Sanchez, imo. His bat is behind the others and his speed is better than the others. I see no reason why anyone has a concern. Every guy could split time and there would still be plenty of developmental at bats and consistent play to go around (additionally, injuries happen). Plus Davidson could get his days off as well and open up some more at bats there too.

 

Cutting Leury would be a mistake, imo. I think when it comes to people like this, you see who might be the hot hand at the time and they get the shot should the need at the big league level open up.

[Chisoxfn]

Leury ought to work as an actual super-sub. Every one of those guys along with the OFs can sit one day a week. That's 5-6 games Leury could play a week, and that's assuming no one gets hurt which will happen at some poitn.

You said it far more elegantly than I did.

[caulfield12]

You said it far more elegantly than I did.

 

 

Leury should also pitch with Brian Anderson...

 

 

Where the heck has BA been? Minor league fields the entire time? Speed skating practice with Eddie Alvarez?

Edited March 24, 2015 by caulfield12

[Bob Sacamano]

Leury ought to work as an actual super-sub. Every one of those guys along with the OFs can sit one day a week. That's 5-6 games Leury could play a week, and that's assuming no one gets hurt which will happen at some poitn.

 

Agree. Have him sit one game, play positions 4-9 the other 6 days. Get him into the game every 6 out of 7 games at different positions.

[LDF]

Agree. Have him sit one game, play positions 4-9 the other 6 days. Get him into the game every 6 out of 7 games at different positions.

 

i thought that might be something the sox were willing to do with Bonifacio

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

WTF? I know Viciedo is gone, that happened weeks ago. I was busy for a couple days and now it's become completely impossible to understand your name dropping. You're dropping names of people we released in the same sentence as people still on the roster and I have no idea which is which.

 

Does anyone have an actual list of OFs in Charlotte? Are Mitchell and Thompson in our minor league camp? I can't figure this out any more.

 

Brian Anderson, Engel Beltre, Jared Mitchell, and Josh Richmond are all officially listed on Charlotte's roster. Safe to assume that Thompson will end up there as well. Richmond is just minor league filler that seems to bounce around levels and I have no clue if Anderson will be playing at that high of a level after so many years off.

[Señor Ding-Dong]

...but his defensive tools are far greater than Saladino or Sanchez, imo.

I disagree. Sanchez and Saladino are better defensively than Leury by a pretty decent margin. Leury looked pretty bad playing the infield last year.

[chitownsportsfan]

I disagree. Sanchez and Saladino are better defensively than Leury by a pretty decent margin. Leury looked pretty bad playing the infield last year.

 

Yea seems like revionist history to me. Leury is far from a solid defender IMO. He's a jack of all trades but master of none. Plus, his bat is really, really, really, really awful. Compared to Garcia, Sanchez is f***ing Dave Kingman.

 

Garcia is a fringe MLB talent at best imo. He's toolsy and can run, but so can a lot of guys. Can he either defend at a near elite or elite level at say 2B and then be solid in a couple others? That's the only way he has much of a career IMO. He's never going to hit anything more than 230/280/300, not in today's run environment.

 

Edi: yea I feel bad others made this argument pages back which I read after posting. Great minds!

Edited March 25, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Quin]

Anderson has been at the minor league fields. Felt weird seeing him there.

 

A Sox FO person told me he's been hurt during the Spring, though he looked fine to me. He seems to be taking the mentor approach to the young guys, though it's more of a "don't do what I did" thing.

[oldsox]

The only reason Leury had a big league job last year is because of his versatility and speed. Because he sure as hell couldn't hit like a big leaguer.

Yet, one of the strangest events of a bad 2014 season was when Leury hit a home run to dead center. I can't remember the circumstances, but I believe it was a big hit at the time.

[shysocks]

Yet, one of the strangest events of a bad 2014 season was when Leury hit a home run to dead center. I can't remember the circumstances, but I believe it was a big hit at the time.

I can't remember either, but I do remember it being hilarious.

 

Looked it up, it was a solo shot in the 3rd inning of a scoreless game which the Sox won 2-1. Belisario with the no-sweat save, as usual.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=340604119

[ChiSox59]

Im thinking ahead....Viciedo at .241 with just one ribbie, no homers and mid 600s OPS this spring for Toronto.

 

If he gets cut again, looking at our likely Charlotte OF, I have a feeling Hahn asks him back as insurance policy.

 

 

Theres no list that im aware of....but has to be Thompson Mitchell Engel Beltre and possibly Shuck if we pick up another player in the final two weeks.

Thats why Leury or even Viciedo should be options. Id rather give dh at bats to Dayan than Wilkins or Black as well.

 

I approve of this.

 

[Señor Ding-Dong]

Yea seems like revionist history to me. Leury is far from a solid defender IMO. He's a jack of all trades but master of none. Plus, his bat is really, really, really, really awful. Compared to Garcia, Sanchez is f***ing Dave Kingman.

 

Garcia is a fringe MLB talent at best imo. He's toolsy and can run, but so can a lot of guys. Can he either defend at a near elite or elite level at say 2B and then be solid in a couple others? That's the only way he has much of a career IMO. He's never going to hit anything more than 230/280/300, not in today's run environment.

 

Edi: yea I feel bad others made this argument pages back which I read after posting. Great minds!

I agree with everything you said.

 

While Leury is viewed as an "all glove, no bat" guy, his defense isn't what you would expect for a guy with that label. His defense certainly is not enough to make up for his lack of a bat. I mean, it's great that he can play a lot of positions at a non-butcher level, but from the little I saw of him I'd say he's average at best defensively at IF. Even that might be a bit of a stretch.

 

I actually think his best position might be CF, as I don't remember him messing up there and I was impressed that a guy who had so little prior experience at the position was able to not be terrible at it. According to Baseball Reference, he only played CF 10 times in the minors and never played LF or RF, which he did a few times in the majors. I do remember several off the mark throws and booted balls when he played IF last year. He should still continue working as a utility guy though, as that's his best shot to get back to the majors.

 

Conversely, in Sanchez's small sample size at the ML level, he looked solid at 2B and even showed flashes of brilliance here and there. Of course, he made his fair share of mistakes, but you could tell he's got the makings to be a solid or better defender at 2B.

 

I haven't seen Saladino play outside of spring training and some clips, but considering the organization feels he's our third best SS behind two 70+ grade defenders in Alexei and Cleuluis Rondon and he was at least mentioned as a candidate for the 2B job, that leads me to believe he's a better defender than Leury as well. Like Leury, he has experience playing a utility role.

 

I don't mean to bash Leury, though. Like others have said, he was clearly in over his head and forced into a ML role before he was ready. He was destined to fail.