The White Sox bullpen is nails

[Jerksticks]

Stats shmats bro. Not even 20 games in and you're using stats? The bullpen guys are gettin the job done, period. What use are stats in this context? Besides Rodon's debut, what is there to be upset with? Nails so far. Absolute nails, galvanized for weatherproofing.

[lasttriptotulsa]

If you just look at the 5 guys at the back of the bullpen that are the ones who will be pitching in close games (Robertson, Jennings, Duke, Putnam, Petricka), their numbers are pretty phenomenal. Every team is going to have a garbage time reliever that is going to skew the numbers so I think it's safe to ignore them for the sake of deciding just how good a bullpen is.

 

Just looking at those 5 guys they have a 2.52 ERA, 1.99 FIP, 1.066 WHIP, 11.36 K/9, 3.46 K/BB

 

That is really about as good as you could realistically expect and they could be even better depending on what Rodon is going to be able to give you.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Based strictly on performance and numbers, Robertson is the best pitcher on the planet right now. He is so fun to watch.

[Chicago White Sox]

If you just look at the 5 guys at the back of the bullpen that are the ones who will be pitching in close games (Robertson, Jennings, Duke, Putnam, Petricka), their numbers are pretty phenomenal. Every team is going to have a garbage time reliever that is going to skew the numbers so I think it's safe to ignore them for the sake of deciding just how good a bullpen is.

 

Just looking at those 5 guys they have a 2.52 ERA, 1.99 FIP, 1.066 WHIP, 11.36 K/9, 3.46 K/BB

 

That is really about as good as you could realistically expect and they could be even better depending on what Rodon is going to be able to give you.

Spot-on summary. Whether this performance is sustainable is up for debate, but there's no denying just how good the core of the bullpen has been so far this year. IMO, those guys are pretty much the reason our season didn't spiral out of control after the 0-4 start. Anyone arguing against the quality of their work this year is clearly hating for no logical reason.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[LDF]

 

after reading this thread, here is my take.

 

at this juncture, at this time and date. the pen has been absolutely fantastic. they deserved all the glory that anyone wants to heap on them. they are really the saving factor of this season with the soxs wins.

 

now how do they compare with other teams, historical how do they rate, strategically how do they compare??

 

my only point is, i do not care. i am a sox fan, a die hard sox fan, and the only thing i care about, is the sox winning. how they do it, who cares. i am not smart enuf to think about advance metrics and with ref about other teams, i will deal with them when the sox plays them.

 

sorry for my rant.

[Balta1701]

after reading this thread, here is my take.

 

at this juncture, at this time and date. the pen has been absolutely fantastic. they deserved all the glory that anyone wants to heap on them. they are really the saving factor of this season with the soxs wins.

 

now how do they compare with other teams, historical how do they rate, strategically how do they compare??

 

my only point is, i do not care. i am a sox fan, a die hard sox fan, and the only thing i care about, is the sox winning. how they do it, who cares. i am not smart enuf to think about advance metrics and with ref about other teams, i will deal with them when the sox plays them.

 

sorry for my rant.

As of right now, the White Sox have the 8th best bullpen ERA in the big leagues at 2.84. The Royals are on top at 0.78, the Yankees are 2nd at 1.86.

 

Our pen is 9th in the big leagues giving up a .620 OPS, the Cubs are 8th with a .617, the Royals are 1st having given up a .420 OPS.

 

We are 1 of only 2 teams with 0 blown saves, but we have only had 3 official save opportunities.

 

Our pen is 6th in MLB in k/9, 9.59 strikeouts per 9 innings, the Giants are on top at 11.69.

 

We're 15th in MLB in bullpen WHIP and 12th in K/BB ratio, because our pen has pitched the 5th fewest innings in the bigs and yet we're still in the middle of the pack in walks.

 

Overall based on the available stats our pen looks above average, hasn't been used all that much, and isn't up there in the top 5 but is borderline close to it. That assessment is not based solely on ERA, which could be dominated by single games for these guys, but instead taking into account OPS, WHIP, K/BB, etc.

[Dick Allen]

I probably sound like a broken record to some, but those three earned runs Dan Jennings has aren't there if we didn't have a 2B making his MLB debut.

 

I hate to play what-ifs because obviously bad things happen, but if Micah makes that play (or if Micah was in position) in game 1, the ERA between Robertson/Duke/Jennings/Petricka is .77. That's playing half their games in a hitter-friendly park with more than half of their games against the 3 & 4 offenses in baseball (by OPS).

Yes. I don't understand why someone thinks White Sox fans shouldn't be thrilled with this bullpen. They were without Petricka most of the time, and Rodon should settle down and probably be pretty dominant. Instead trying to poo poo any excitement with stats that are easily scewed by a bad outing or 2 which include guys not on the team anymore.

 

Sure, in gamethreads, White Sox fans seem to love to be miserable, but when it is all said and done, they prefer winning the games, and not trying to find negatives for every damn thing. There are a couple people here that would like the White Sox to have the Brewers record, but not as many as a gamethread would have you believe.

 

The bullpen is great. If you claim to be a White Sox fan, and want to disagree, too bad for you. It boogles my mind why you would waste time watching them if you can't take any joy out of it, even when they are really good.

[bmags]

People have to admit some shock at Danks being 2nd in strikeouts.

[caulfield12]

We win two games against the Royals and now everyone is forced to feel the same thing as other posters?

 

Get real. We're still below .500, and we are still the same organization that has lost 16 of our last 21 to KC and 17 of our last 22 at USCF to KC.

 

I don't remember ever in a million years celebrating this much beating a team in the first half of a season, because the only thing time has proven is that we struggle to beat teams like the Twins, Tigers and Royals in the 2nd half, when the games really matter.

 

Balta's stats are or the ones posted earlier are totally irrelevant? Then aren't we doing exactly the opposite by "overhyping" the same stats after just 20 games played?

 

"fans seem to love to be miserable...not trying to find negatives for every damn thing...there are a couple of people who would like to have the Brewers record"

 

This kind of WSI "group think" is why that website doesn't exist any more, for all intents and purposes. Because posters had the temerity to think for themselves and not act like sheep. We don't need anyone, not even the mods, to tell us how to be a Sox fan or how to go about enjoying the game of baseball. Chisox.com could post 100 Scott Merkin fluff pieces per week, they could have Brooks Boyer and Rongey on the radio 25 times a day saying only positives things and defending the organization, and it probably wouldn't make one iota of difference in terms of attendance or fan support/enthusiasm.

 

If the White Sox want to not be in the bottom 5 teams for all of MLB in attendance, they're going to have to do a lot more than beat the Royals, a team many pundits and prognosticators picked for 3rd or 4th in the AL Central.

 

As a Sox fan, it's okay to disagree as long as you have a well-thought out reason for having your opinion or position. If we're just going to blindly all have the same viewpoint or not even be able to have disagreements without insulting each other at every step, maybe it's better to not post at all. I mean...think about it, if your biggest joy in life is assessing others and how good they are at being White Sox fans, maybe that priority it out of whack and needs to be re-examined. For example, Fathom can also be gloomy or Cubs-centric (and most Sox fans are guilty of this, myself as much as any), but that doesn't mean he's not one of the best and most consistent posters on this board. I would never think he's not one of the best White Sox fans out there. Heck, Marty, even though I disagreed with 98% of what he said, he made you think at least...and defend your beliefs with real evidence/support and not just opinions.

 

Just the fact that many of us spend XX amount of minutes or even hours per day HERE at SoxTalk discussing our favorite team and/or sport should mean we needn't spend wasted time defending our right/s to have an opinion that it's in the minority.

[Dick Allen]

We win two games against the Royals and now everyone is forced to feel the same thing as other posters?

 

Get real. We're still below .500, and we are still the same organization that has lost 16 of our last 21 to KC and 17 of our last 22 at USCF to KC.

 

I don't remember ever in a million years celebrating this much beating a team in the first half of a season, because the only thing time has proven is that we struggle to beat teams like the Twins, Tigers and Royals in the 2nd half, when the games really matter.

 

Balta's stats are or the ones posted earlier are totally irrelevant? Then aren't we doing exactly the opposite by "overhyping" the same stats after just 20 games played?

 

"fans seem to love to be miserable...not trying to find negatives for every damn thing...there are a couple of people who would like to have the Brewers record"

 

This kind of WSI "group think" is why that website doesn't exist any more, for all intents and purposes. Because posters had the temerity to think for themselves and not act like sheep. We don't need anyone, not even the mods, to tell us how to be a Sox fan or how to go about enjoying the game of baseball. Chisox.com could post 100 Scott Merkin fluff pieces per week, they could have Brooks Boyer and Rongey on the radio 25 times a day saying only positives things and defending the organization, and it probably wouldn't make one iota of difference in terms of attendance or fan support/enthusiasm.

 

If the White Sox want to not be in the bottom 5 teams for all of MLB in attendance, they're going to have to do a lot more than beat the Royals, a team many pundits and prognosticators picked for 3rd or 4th in the AL Central.

 

As a Sox fan, it's okay to disagree as long as you have a well-thought out reason for having your opinion or position. If we're just going to blindly all have the same viewpoint or not even be able to have disagreements without insulting each other at every step, maybe it's better to not post at all. I mean...think about it, if your biggest joy in life is assessing others and how good they are at being White Sox fans, maybe that priority it out of whack and needs to be re-examined. For example, Fathom can also be gloomy or Cubs-centric (and most Sox fans are guilty of this, myself as much as any), but that doesn't mean he's not one of the best and most consistent posters on this board. I would never think he's not one of the best White Sox fans out there. Heck, Marty, even though I disagreed with 98% of what he said, he made you think at least...and defend your beliefs with real evidence/support and not just opinions.

 

Just the fact that many of us spend XX amount of minutes or even hours per day HERE at SoxTalk discussing our favorite team and/or sport should mean we needn't spend wasted time defending our right/s to have an opinion that it's in the minority.

I never said you don't have the right to try to find anything wrong with everything, I just wonder why anyone would spend so much time trying to find reasons why you shouldn't be happy with something. Or spend as many hours watching something you refuse to take any joy. Using stats at this point is silly. If you used current stats, you would conclude Adam Lind is a better hitter than Mike Trout. We know that isn't true. With Petricka healthy and Rodon acclimated, Drabek in Charlotte,the White Sox bullpen will be and is as I said nails. Sorry you want to think it sucks. Sorry you now think things take a couple of months to determine.But you are all over the place. You use sample size yet determined the season was over within the first week. Said Cleveland was playing in a possible elimination series this past weekend. Since you counted the White Sox season as over , the cold hard facts are they have been even or better than their rivals despite not hitting or playing particularly well. They are going to hit. The bullpen has taken shape. Q being done appears to have been overstated. Have fun ripping them all you can. I am just going to enjoy them win.

 

If you can't see this bullpen is outstanding, despite where their WHIP ranks, that's too bad as well.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

ONCE AGAIN, for the 100th time, I never said it sucks. I'm just not ready to characterize it as elite/great/nails because of David Robertson and statistics from just 20 games.

 

Sorry if that disappoints you.

 

I love to watch Robertson pitch and feel that the team now has some confidence in the back end, which is also helping with their overall ability of Ventura to assign them consistent roles and stick to that. With the Rodon situation, though, there's a big wild card.

 

Unlike you, I'm not 100% confident in Rodon adjusting well to pen work as Sale did. As PTAC has pointed out 100 times, there are some mechanical issues (aka flaws) in his delivery and he's going to continue to struggle with repeatability and consistency. If you believe he's going to have the same impact as Francisco Liriano in 2006 with his slider, great, but I'm not so sure about that.

 

Statistically speaking, it's VERY VERY rare for teams in this modern era of baseball to recover from 0-4 and 0-3 starts and still go on to make the playoffs. That's just a fact, you can dispute it all you want, but certainly you weren't confident enough in the White Sox to predict they'd make the playoffs for the first time in 8 seasons, either.

 

Yes, if the Indians were swept by DET, I would have considered them done....sure, no problem with that. I've watched Kipnis enough the last two seasons to have serious concerns about him returning to the same form he displayed in his first couple of seasons...and the Indians without Kipnis playing at an All-Star level is the same as the White Sox with Adam Eaton OPSing in the mid 500's.

 

I don't recall ever saying anything about Jose Quintana being done...other than repeating the same thing everyone here has said since 2012. Concerns about elevated pitch counts early....3-2 counts, and not being able to put hitters away due to the lack of one dominant strikeout pitch, wasting pitches when ahead in the count, giving up the one big inning and/or letting himself fall apart when the defense isn't backing him up (part of this is the residual "frustration" effect from all those 41 no decisions, leading the majors during that time frame)....etc., etc. You're welcome to go through the Quintana thread and find where I said he should be pulled from the rotation. I simply shared the same viewpoint as Balta and MANY others, that this team had no realistic way to compete in 2015 without Quintana being as good as he's been the first 3 years or so of his career, barring a Cy Young/Rookie of the Year campaign out of Carlos Rodon and/or Erik Johnson.

 

 

It would be nice if I could just click my heels together like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz and guarantee a bullpen record like the Twins in the 2000's or the Royals in recent years...just saying they're nails, that doesn't mean they're automatically going to be as good as the 2005 or 2008 (first half) pens, which were more talented and possessed more overall depth/quality.

 

If that constitutes ripping your opinion, I guess...we could debate the semantics and word choices for the next decade and bore anyone left on this board completely to death, undoubtedly.

Edited April 27, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

As of right now, the White Sox have the 8th best bullpen ERA in the big leagues at 2.84. The Royals are on top at 0.78, the Yankees are 2nd at 1.86.

 

Our pen is 9th in the big leagues giving up a .620 OPS, the Cubs are 8th with a .617, the Royals are 1st having given up a .420 OPS.

 

We are 1 of only 2 teams with 0 blown saves, but we have only had 3 official save opportunities.

 

Our pen is 6th in MLB in k/9, 9.59 strikeouts per 9 innings, the Giants are on top at 11.69.

 

We're 15th in MLB in bullpen WHIP and 12th in K/BB ratio, because our pen has pitched the 5th fewest innings in the bigs and yet we're still in the middle of the pack in walks.

 

Overall based on the available stats our pen looks above average, hasn't been used all that much, and isn't up there in the top 5 but is borderline close to it. That assessment is not based solely on ERA, which could be dominated by single games for these guys, but instead taking into account OPS, WHIP, K/BB, etc.

 

i really truly appreciated your attempt to explain this, but i am like the animal that will hide its head in the ground. i am too freaking old and sick to understand this.

 

for me, i trust our bullpen, i like the players make up. the pen, i believe would even have better stats, if the team would have performed better. however that didn't happen. i will confident in any games in the future where the sox have to use their bullpen, and screw those advance metrics i will judge the game, the old fashion way. watching and hoping.

 

for those who are really good at advance metrics, i do not mean any offense. i feel as i am in the horse and buggy carriage days when everyone is driving cars.

 

[OmarComing25]

Whether or not our bullpen is "elite", can we at least all agree that so far this year's version has been a heck of a lot better than last year's dumpster fire?

 

 

[LDF]

We win two games against the Royals and now everyone is forced to feel the same thing as other posters?

 

Get real. We're still below .500, and we are still the same organization that has lost 16 of our last 21 to KC and 17 of our last 22 at USCF to KC.

 

I don't remember ever in a million years celebrating this much beating a team in the first half of a season, because the only thing time has proven is that we struggle to beat teams like the Twins, Tigers and Royals in the 2nd half, when the games really matter.

 

Balta's stats are or the ones posted earlier are totally irrelevant? Then aren't we doing exactly the opposite by "overhyping" the same stats after just 20 games played?

 

"fans seem to love to be miserable...not trying to find negatives for every damn thing...there are a couple of people who would like to have the Brewers record"

This kind of WSI "group think" is why that website doesn't exist any more, for all intents and purposes. Because posters had the temerity to think for themselves and not act like sheep. We don't need anyone, not even the mods, to tell us how to be a Sox fan or how to go about enjoying the game of baseball. Chisox.com could post 100 Scott Merkin fluff pieces per week, they could have Brooks Boyer and Rongey on the radio 25 times a day saying only positives things and defending the organization, and it probably wouldn't make one iota of difference in terms of attendance or fan support/enthusiasm.

 

If the White Sox want to not be in the bottom 5 teams for all of MLB in attendance, they're going to have to do a lot more than beat the Royals, a team many pundits and prognosticators picked for 3rd or 4th in the AL Central.

 

As a Sox fan, it's okay to disagree as long as you have a well-thought out reason for having your opinion or position. If we're just going to blindly all have the same viewpoint or not even be able to have disagreements without insulting each other at every step, maybe it's better to not post at all. I mean...think about it, if your biggest joy in life is assessing others and how good they are at being White Sox fans, maybe that priority it out of whack and needs to be re-examined. For example, Fathom can also be gloomy or Cubs-centric (and most Sox fans are guilty of this, myself as much as any), but that doesn't mean he's not one of the best and most consistent posters on this board. I would never think he's not one of the best White Sox fans out there. Heck, Marty, even though I disagreed with 98% of what he said, he made you think at least...and defend your beliefs with real evidence/support and not just opinions.

 

Just the fact that many of us spend XX amount of minutes or even hours per day HERE at SoxTalk discussing our favorite team and/or sport should mean we needn't spend wasted time defending our right/s to have an opinion that it's in the minority.

 

re first bold, 2 games can be the start and this team needed a start, esp in the bonding.

 

re second bold. i believe i may have been among the first to move here after a huge fight over there.. for me it was b/c of the mods and admin. this site, there is no way it is the same.

 

i like my belief and will argue them, which i have. i have never been warned either in a PM or on this site.

 

if one chooses to post their opinions, be prepare to back it up. i will also jump in if i believe in either side of the discussion. plus i still consider many on this sites as friends, even if i am wrong on it.

 

peace

Edited April 27, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

I never said you don't have the right to try to find anything wrong with everything, I just wonder why anyone would spend so much time trying to find reasons why you shouldn't be happy with something. Or spend as many hours watching something you refuse to take any joy. Using stats at this point is silly. If you used current stats, you would conclude Adam Lind is a better hitter than Mike Trout. We know that isn't true. With Petricka healthy and Rodon acclimated, Drabek in Charlotte,the White Sox bullpen will be and is as I said nails. Sorry you want to think it sucks. Sorry you now think things take a couple of months to determine.But you are all over the place. You use sample size yet determined the season was over within the first week. Said Cleveland was playing in a possible elimination series this past weekend. Since you counted the White Sox season as over , the cold hard facts are they have been even or better than their rivals despite not hitting or playing particularly well. They are going to hit. The bullpen has taken shape. Q being done appears to have been overstated. Have fun ripping them all you can. I am just going to enjoy them win.

 

If you can't see this bullpen is outstanding, despite where their WHIP ranks, that's too bad as well.

 

i am not taking sides here. but everyone has an opinion and not everyone will agree with each other.

[LDF]

Whether or not our bullpen is "elite", can we at least all agree that so far this year's version has been a heck of a lot better than last year's dumpster fire?

 

bingo...... that is all that matter for now.

[bmags]

if only we could have paired last years april-may offense with this years april-may bullpen.

[southsider2k5]

Whether or not our bullpen is "elite", can we at least all agree that so far this year's version has been a heck of a lot better than last year's dumpster fire?

 

This is probably the most accurate post of this thread.

 

The pen is assloads better than it was last year. Already we can see a different in that ventura has multiple guys he can run out there that won't hurt the team on a regular basis. In fact the team has been able to take 9 inning games from last year, and turn them into seven inning games with Duke and Robertson on the back end. It also is helping that guys like Petricka and Putnam are pitching in the 6th and 7th innings instead of the 9th like last year.

 

And while the numbers don't say "elite" yet this year, I do believe this could be an elite pen by the end of the year.

[Dunt]

Whether or not our bullpen is "elite", can we at least all agree that so far this year's version has been a heck of a lot better than last year's dumpster fire?

 

Amen.

[The Ginger Kid]

This alone is reason to rejoice about this bullpen:

 

David Robertson: 8 games, 8 IP, 0 runs, 3 hits, 1 BB, 17 K, 3 saves, 2 wins. 120/87 pitches/strikes.

 

Can't see why anyone wouldn't be optimistic about the Sox and their chances to win more games with the current bullpen.

[Heads22]

It's kind of nice trusting that our relievers can hold a lead, isn't it?

[LDF]

It's kind of nice trusting that our relievers can hold a lead, isn't it?

 

i was really scratching my head when the sox went out and spend that kind of money on relievers. i am from the KW school of thought, use a sp who could make it as a sp as a reliever, but i was still happy b/c i trusted Hahn and i figure he knows what he is doing.

 

but now, seeing the results, i am humbling eat crow, will someone pls pass the mustard?

[Balta1701]

In the past 2.5 weeks since the last comment in this thread our bullpen has dropped to 8th in the AL in ERA and 18th in MLB. They are 17th in OPS given up, 24th in the league in OBP given up, 23rd in WHIP, 20th in K/BB, and 12th in K/9.

[chitownsportsfan]

In the past 2.5 weeks since the last comment in this thread our bullpen has dropped to 8th in the AL in ERA and 18th in MLB. They are 17th in OPS given up, 24th in the league in OBP given up, 23rd in WHIP, 20th in K/BB, and 12th in K/9.

 

Some of that is constantly pitching from behind and using the lower leverage options.

[Kyyle23]

the only solution is for everyone to refuse to compliment the white sox in the PHT forum.