2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I agree that nothing was really said here, but I'll jump in anyway. Trading Q does appear to be the right thing to do. Sale only if you get blown away. I wouldn't trade both though. IMO next year is gonna be a wash, and I say that as one of the boards biggest optimists. If you trade Q or Sale, come 2017 you've still got a potentially bad ass rotation of Sale/Q-Rodon-Fulmer-EJ and a few other guys who can potentially slot in the back end. It makes all the sense in the world to trade Q or entertain packages on Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) What? Which guys? Put in ages next to those guys and then days on the DL and you can better understand how and where Quintana would fit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) What? Which guys? IMO, of the players listed, he is better than Verlander, Keuchel, Hamels, Arreita, Zimmerman and Snydergaard. This is talent alone, nothing to do with contract situations, which is only going to improve his value versus the majority of players on that list. I don't think he is too far behind / in the same neighborhood as several others - Kluber, Archer, Darvish, Wainwright, Cole, Cueto, Bumgarner. If you look at this surplus value, he is definitely more "valuable" than over half of those guys. Quintana is undervalued in the worst kind of way - even amongst Sox fans. If this guy had a good defense behind him, or better yet, a good defense and some run support, he would undoubtedly be considered elite by all knowledgeable baseball fans. His lack of run support is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coco1997 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I feel like this front office would completely screw the pooch on any trade involving Sale which is the biggest reason I'd be reluctant to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 10:09 AM) IMO, of the players listed, he is better than Verlander, Keuchel, Hamels, Arreita, Zimmerman and Snydergaard. This is talent alone, nothing to do with contract situations, which is only going to improve his value versus the majority of players on that list. I don't think he is too far behind / in the same neighborhood as several others - Kluber, Archer, Darvish, Wainwright, Cole, Cueto, Bumgarner. If you look at this surplus value, he is definitely more "valuable" than over half of those guys. Quintana is undervalued in the worst kind of way - even amongst Sox fans. If this guy had a good defense behind him, or better yet, a good defense and some run support, he would undoubtedly be considered elite by all knowledgeable baseball fans. His lack of run support is crazy. I like Q a lot, but he is not better than Keuchel or Arrieta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 10:15 AM) I like Q a lot, but he is not better than Keuchel or Arrieta. Keuchel and Q have nearly identical career ERA and FIP. Q has a significantly higher career WAR. Sure, Keuchel has been better this year, but overall, I'd take Quintana. Plus Q is controlled a year longer, and assuming Keuchel doesn't sign a long term deal buying out his arb years, Q will likely be much cheaper. I admittedly haven't watched Arrieta pitch much with the Cubs. I don't watch the NL much, and have never lived in Chicago, so the Cubs aren't the team I love to hate like most Sox fans (that's the Twins for me). But I do know his career numbers would be pails in comparison to Qs, but I also know he is not the same pitcher he was early in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 10:09 AM) IMO, of the players listed, he is better than Verlander, Keuchel, Hamels, Arreita, Zimmerman and Snydergaard. This is talent alone, nothing to do with contract situations, which is only going to improve his value versus the majority of players on that list. I don't think he is too far behind / in the same neighborhood as several others - Kluber, Archer, Darvish, Wainwright, Cole, Cueto, Bumgarner. If you look at this surplus value, he is definitely more "valuable" than over half of those guys. Quintana is undervalued in the worst kind of way - even amongst Sox fans. If this guy had a good defense behind him, or better yet, a good defense and some run support, he would undoubtedly be considered elite by all knowledgeable baseball fans. His lack of run support is crazy. I'm going to let the people with more time argue this but that's crazy talk. Quintana is a stud. He's not better than Arrieta, Hamels, or Keuchel though. He's just not. He's not in the same neighborhood as those other guys either. He has a great contract. He's basically Jon Lester for way less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (coco1997 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 10:15 AM) I feel like this front office would completely screw the pooch on any trade involving Sale which is the biggest reason I'd be reluctant to trade him. The problem might be is there isn't really any precedent to trading a still young, legit ace, who is signed to a ridiculously team friendly deal. I really don't know what to expect as a return, but I know it should be HUGE. If the Sox think Rodon and Fulmer can both develop into top of the rotation starters I would have no issues with them trading him for a haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 10:40 AM) I'm going to let the people with more time argue this but that's crazy talk. Quintana is a stud. He's not better than Arrieta, Hamels, or Keuchel though. He's just not. He's not in the same neighborhood as those other guys either. He has a great contract. He's basically Jon Lester for way less money. I wouldnt really say Hamels is better than him. Since Q became a full time starter, their numbers are almost identical and Q has been worth 0.2 more fWAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 03:20 AM) "We've been extremely open minded. Everything is on the table and we're looking at everything." (Makes no moves at trade deadline or even on waiver wire). Nothing is going to happen now anyway. If any moves are made it will have to be during the off season. They have always said there are no sacred cows. It's always the return. Did I miss something or is it just Hahn speaking now instead of Williams? Edited September 2, 2015 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 11:24 AM) Nothing is going to happen now anyway. If any moves are made it will have to be during the off season. They have always said there are no sacred cows. It's always the return. Did I miss something or is it just Hahn speaking now instead of Williams? I don't think anything big (like trade Chris Sale) will happen either because the Sox are still in the mind set that they can compete next year. Trading Chris Sale does not let you do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 09:59 PM) The Red Sox have one of the most overrated systems in baseball, IMO. Any package for Sale would have to start with Bogaerts, and I doubt Boston would give him up. I don't think Boston's system is overrated. In the last few years they have promoted Bogaerts and Iglesias, two young and very talented shortstops. They have also produced Reddick, Betts and now Bradley as outfielders. They also have produced 2 solid young catchers in Swihart and Vazquez. I was not a Middlebrooks fan but they were able to trade him and they also have Brock Holt who is a super sub in the mold of Zobrist. That is quite a haul in a few years. Their problem has been getting young pitchers and that may change. They have 4 or 5 either in Boston or will be in SP. But my guess is it is a too late. Rumor is they want an ace and dombrowski has set his sights on David Price again. I have posted several times on this site that I was hoping for a Q for Swihart or Vazquez , Bradley + prospects but the way Bradley has exploded even that won't happen. I doubt Sale goes. But I think Q or even Rodon could bring back 2 solid ML players. I have been assuming Q but maybe a Sale/Q combo is better than a Sale/Rodon based on style of pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 12:38 PM) I don't think Boston's system is overrated. In the last few years they have promoted Bogaerts and Iglesias, two young and very talented shortstops. They have also produced Reddick, Betts and now Bradley as outfielders. They also have produced 2 solid young catchers in Swihart and Vazquez. I was not a Middlebrooks fan but they were able to trade him and they also have Brock Holt who is a super sub in the mold of Zobrist. That is quite a haul in a few years. Their problem has been getting young pitchers and that may change. They have 4 or 5 either in Boston or will be in SP. But my guess is it is a too late. Rumor is they want an ace and dombrowski has set his sights on David Price again. I have posted several times on this site that I was hoping for a Q for Swihart or Vazquez , Bradley + prospects but the way Bradley has exploded even that won't happen. I doubt Sale goes. But I think Q or even Rodon could bring back 2 solid ML players. I have been assuming Q but maybe a Sale/Q combo is better than a Sale/Rodon based on style of pitching. Unless the prospects you speak of are the headliners in the deal, that trade would be comically bad for the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 12:38 PM) I don't think Boston's system is overrated. In the last few years they have promoted Bogaerts and Iglesias, two young and very talented shortstops. They have also produced Reddick, Betts and now Bradley as outfielders. They also have produced 2 solid young catchers in Swihart and Vazquez. I was not a Middlebrooks fan but they were able to trade him and they also have Brock Holt who is a super sub in the mold of Zobrist. That is quite a haul in a few years. Their problem has been getting young pitchers and that may change. They have 4 or 5 either in Boston or will be in SP. Come on... you can't call these guys "solid" and whatnot when they've barely played. I'll give you Iglesias, Holt, and probably Bogaerts. The rest are overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) Unless the prospects you speak of are the headliners in the deal, that trade would be comically bad for the White Sox. You would be getting a young catcher who is hitting .280 in his rookie year and is considered above average defensively. Bradley tore up AAA this year, is hitting .330 since being recalled at the AllStar break, and is probably the best defensive CF prospect in baseball. That would give us 2 young stars so the prospects will not be the headliners. Again, I doubt the Red Sox will do it now that Dombroski is there. He will use the FA market to get his ace and keep Bradley and trade one of the young catchers, Ramirez + Holt neither of who I would want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) Come on... you can't call these guys "solid" and whatnot when they've barely played. I'll give you Iglesias, Holt, and probably Bogaerts. The rest are overrated. What's wrong with Betts? He's put up 3.4 fWAR and 4.1 bWAR this year, has a .771 OPS at the age of 22, is a solid defender and rates very well on the basepaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) ...his career numbers would be pails in comparison to Qs... Never saw this one before. Just awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GamesToLove Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 02:04 PM) Never saw this one before. Just awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 04:32 PM) I don't think anything big (like trade Chris Sale) will happen either because the Sox are still in the mind set that they can compete next year. Trading Chris Sale does not let you do that. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 02:27 PM) Come on... you can't call these guys "solid" and whatnot when they've barely played. I'll give you Iglesias, Holt, and probably Bogaerts. The rest are overrated. Josh Reddick is better than Avi. Mookie Betts hit .275 has 13 Hr and 20 stolen bases in 100 games this year while playing CF. Bradley was a AAA allstar this year and has hit .330 since he was called up. Again, you have to trade at the right time before a guy explodes. Now Iglesias and Bogaerts are probably untouchable for us unless it is a "Sale". Bradley is also close to untouchable now w Dombrowski. I think the Boston ship has sailed for Hahn. hopefully he doesn't want Ramirez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) Come on... you can't call these guys "solid" and whatnot when they've barely played. I'll give you Iglesias, Holt, and probably Bogaerts. The rest are overrated. Yeah, none of those guys are overrated besides Middlebrooks. They are all average to good MLB players that I wouldn't mind having on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 01:04 PM) Never saw this one before. Just awesome Haha POTY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 02:04 PM) Never saw this one before. Just awesome Yah yah yah...iphone autocorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GamesToLove Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) Yah yah yah...iphone autocorrect. "pale" autocorrected to "be pails"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 2, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) I don't think anything big (like trade Chris Sale) will happen either because the Sox are still in the mind set that they can compete next year. Trading Chris Sale does not let you do that. That's just not true. If the Sox got 3 quality young players for him who could produce right away, the Sox would be a better baseball team. Teams win without aces (and Rodon may be that anyway). And the Sox certainly have proven that they can lose with the best of them with Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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